looking for a mtached set of a connecting rods

[michael.warshaw]

has anyone ever driven 218 vs 230 back to back , or has ha experience where they could comment on if the 230 is worlds apart, i just bought rods from mike aka dezeldoc, i want to get some more opinions, on if i am making a mistake on keeping it a 218?

[greg g]

guess yeaterdays post at 3:15 didn't count...............

I started with a 218 switched to a 56 model 230. you know the 97 vs 125hp post. yes it makes a difference. mostly at highway speeds top gear acceleration, hill climbing and better gas milage.

[michael.warshaw]

so i have to change the crank shaft, which is easy, rods, when you do the fly wheel isnt it hard to do what ever has to be done to make it work?

[greg g]

Can't comment as I swaped the whole engine. Check with Pete Anderson, Blueskies as he did the mods to his 218 block.

[Jim Yergin]

so i have to change the crank shaft, which is easy, rods, when you do the fly wheel isnt it hard to do what ever has to be done to make it work?

I made a 218 into a 230. Took the crank and rods out of one engine that did not have a flywheel. Found a flywheel on eBay. It was a later 6 bolt version that bolted right up to the 8 bolt crank (engine was from a Dodge with fluid drive). The fluid drive cranks do not have the pilot bushing opening fully machined. I didn't discover that until I had it installed. I ended up reducing the outer diameter of the pilot bushing to make it fit. The only catch with the flywheel was that the ring gear on the later ones is different so I removed that ring gear and replaced it with one that would mate with my starter. My '41 originally had the 87 hp 201 so the increase in power was even more than Greg's.

Jim Yergin

[michael.warshaw]

I made a 218 into a 230. Took the crank and rods out of one engine that did not have a flywheel. Found a flywheel on eBay. It was a later 6 bolt version that bolted right up to the 8 bolt crank (engine was from a Dodge with fluid drive). The fluid drive cranks do not have the pilot bushing opening fully machined. I didn't discover that until I had it installed. I ended up reducing the outer diameter of the pilot bushing to make it fit. The only catch with the flywheel was that the ring gear on the later ones is different so I removed that ring gear and replaced it with one that would mate with my starter. My '41 originally had the 87 hp 201 so the increase in power was even more than Greg's.

Jim Yergin

jim was it worth all that work?

[Jim Yergin]

jim was it worth all that work?

It was to me. I had never rebuilt an engine before but after spending time on this forum I got the bug. My car was a 20 year project so a little more time didn't matter. I never really drove the car with the 201, which I still have. I wanted my car to be a driver so the 230, the overdrive transmission, and four wheel disc brakes made sense to me. My woodie is one very heavy car so I am glad to have the 230. It really moves down the road. I can't tell you if it would be the same with a 218. The work on the car is a hobby for me and solving problems is something I enjoy. Unfortunately I am back to rebuilding the engine. One of the surplus NOS pistons I used in the rebuild decided to come a part and punched a hole in the cylinder wall. Did I say I enjoy overcoming problems. If you are going for an all original car to show or just drive occassionally and you are not interested in the hands on mechanical work, I think you should probably just stay with the 218. If after you have it back on the road and you want more power, it would not be a big deal to replace the 218 with a 230.

Jim Yergin

[Plymouthy Adams]

basically if you going to be going as deep as you are with your car, and if you got the parts (access to them) then the work is really not "going any deeper" "no real extra effort" the procedure is just to swap one part for the other on install..

[greg g]

Mike, lets say your out shopping and the following are available, please make you choices known, assume that other than the engines all things are equal

56 T bird one with w 292 and one with a 312

66 Galaxie convertible one with w 352 and one with a 390

56 Chevy one with a 265 and one with a 283

63 Chevy Impala 2dr hard topone with a 283 and one with 327

64 Pontiac Tempest one with a 326 and the other with a 389

66 Pontiac Bonneville one with a 389 and one with a 421

a 60 Desoto adventurer one with a 361 and one with a 383

a 66 dodge charger with a 383 or with a 426 Hemi

a 67 Buick Riveara with a 364 or a 400.

Are you feeling a trend here???

a 47 Plymouth one with a 218 or one with a 230. Especially if you are the only person who knows its a 230?????

[BeBop138]

Amen Greg. If you never leave the driveway as our beloved Norm the 218 is fine, otherwise the more cubes will be to your advantage for todays driving. I would think longer life for the engine also.............Good Luck...........Lee

[Captain Neon]

Despite Norm's limited miles, he still installed disc brakes and converted the oil bath to use a paper filter. I remember a couple of times where he stated that were he to do it again, he would have put an SBC into his coupe. I think Norm would recommend the 230 conversion, but I am just speculating. Norm was no purist that he was quite adamant about. IMHO, Norm's trademark was, "It's your car, do what you want." So I will just advise our resident solicitor to review the advice given by experienced council, and then encourage him to do what he wants.

[michael.warshaw]

when i do the 230 converion do i get overdirve? how does that work?

[Joe Flanagan]

You have to get an overdrive transmission. The conversion from 218 to 230 is just about the engine. An OD transmission has a different gearing setup from the stock transmission. It is much less restrictive and will allow your engine to run under load with much fewer RPMs than the stock transmission. If you were to go 60 with your stock tranny, the engine would be straining, but if you went 60 with overdrive, it's much less taxing on the engine because of the gearing in the OD transmission.

There are other guys on the forum who know MUCH more about this than I do, including a couple who have torn OD trannys down and rebuilt them. I just posted the way I understand the OD transmission to work the simplest way I could.

[Cpt.Fred]

i was very curious abot that OD, too. i know it from the old VOLVO cars from the 60s and 70s, they're electrically shifted but work really fine. would love to have one myself.

i guess you'd need a new drive shaft for the swap, don't you?

[martybose]

(snip)

i guess you'd need a new drive shaft for the swap, don't you?

Not necessarily, it depends on the transmission that you're taking out. In my case, the standard 3 speed in my 47 was exactly the same length as the 3 speed w/ OD that I was putting in, so there was no change in the driveshaft length.

Marty

[Cpt.Fred]

sounds great! i got a three-on-the-tree, too. maybe i have to start browsing a bit...

[blueskies]

Can't comment as I swaped the whole engine. Check with Pete Anderson, Blueskies as he did the mods to his 218 block.

or, Michael could just read my post in this thread, #65...

jim was it worth all that work?

as I said earlier, the parts are a direct swap, so the "work" is the same either way.

Pete

[Captain Neon]

The R-10 is a direct swap for the standard transmission installed in a P15. No need to shorten the driveshaft. There are a couple of ways to actuate the OD, and I believe that Pete Anderson (blueskies) has the best set-up for an R-10 with a switch on his shift arm. The R-10 also requires a longer speedometer cable as well.

Had I had access to a fully rebuilt R-10 back in '08 when I rebuilt my '46 Plymouth tranny, the old tranny would have been scrapped for parts and the R-10 would have gone in. However, I was strapped for time (big road trip just a few weeks away), and did not have time to track down an R-10.

[michael.warshaw]

so i would need a r10 tranny to get over drive? where do i get a tranny like this?

[Rollie���]

your plymouth never came wit a overdrve

[Andydodge]

Michael, have you got a workshop or service manual for your car?.........am not being smart here, am trying to help you........as there are separate manuals and books for Dodge,Plymouth etc in the USA, it mayhelp you to obtain an Australian workshop manual simply because they cover Dodge, Plymouth and DeSoto in the one book.....they are not as detailed as the US manuals but if you checkout www.ebay.com.au then do a search for Plymouth or Dodge then you should come up with a 1946-1953 Dodge,Plymouth DeSoto Workshop manual......they usually sell for about $20-30.00 Australian and are originals as they haven't been repo'd .........just a thought to help.........regards, Andy Douglas

[Flatie46]

I personally can't see why anybody would not make the 218/230 converson if you had it down this far and needed to replace rods or crank. The power you would gain at very little if any extra cost. As mentioned before there's no way to tell by looking that it's not stock. You can keep a secret can't ya;). Your car though, do it the way you want.

[Joe Flanagan]

This is the R-10 overdrive transmission:

They're expensive and hard to find. I got this one from Neil Riddle in Seattle for $800 including shipping. It's out of a '53 Plymouth and Neil says that it worked when it was taken out of the car. I looked around for a year until I found one, which is why I jumped on it. 800 bucks is a lot to me but I didn't know when another one would surface, let alone one that is in working order.

[james curl]

A man in Oregon lists O.D. transmissions for MoPars, for pre 59 he gets $1600.00 complete with all controls. He lists in the Hemmings big monthly book under Chrysler parts in the front of the book. I do not know what George Asche sells his far but the $800.00 that Neil Riddle sold that one for is the cheapest that I have ever seen for one for a P15-D24.

[Plymouthy Adams]

your plymouth never came wit a overdrve

correct information above..your car would immediately suffer points lost in that catagory and to the tune of probable inelligibility for an award. The 1952 introduction of the R10 saw these units offered back to the dealers in a kit form for retrofit into any leftover 51 model car as an incentitive to buy, thus a dealer installed OD in a 51 model only is considered correct for judging. The unit as we all know would be able to be retrofitted by the dealer to all other cars equally and there is not any arguement that it could have been done as such. It is just not recognized in the field as stock as the 51 for the 51 could still be considered "sold new with OD" there is always a cutoff to everything.