Need some help with getting fuel for the restart -

[Tyler drives Betty]

Hi guys -

Okay, I'm working my way through getting the car back on the road after 6 years of being parked (running great before that). I'm not getting fuel, and I want to get your input on what to pursue next and were I might have gone wrong.

I'm kicking myself for not adding stabil.

Here's what I've done for the fuel system so far:

- drained fuel tank

- cleared lines all the way back. Was able to blow air through all lines and into the tank. This took some doing, and I had to spray carb cleaner up into the tank outlet hole before I could get things clear.

- replaced short section of rubber hose before fuel pump. Added a small filter (plastic stone-type for lawn equipment) before pump.

- rebuilt fuel pump using Antique Auto Cellar kit - everything seemed to be working as it should after assembly.

Now, with tow start attempts, I am not getting fuel up from the pump to the carb. The vacuum wipers are trying to work, so I know the pump is actuating. There was a trace bit of fuel in the clear filter I have before the carb. I unhooked that filter to bypass in case it was too much, but it didn't make a difference.

What do I need to check next? Air leaks in the fuel line? would that totally negate any fuel coming up the line?

Any help is appreciated - thanks!

[DigmyP18]

I say pull the top off the carb and fill it with fuel. A lot of guys just fill the bowl through the bowl vent as well. Works either way. Once it fires the pump should pull the fuel from the tank. Hopefully the inside of your tank doesn't look like mine did. I got a deal called Gas Tank Renu done and it was worth every penny. Tank is pristine now. You can remove your fuel sender and take a look inside your tank. You might be surprised or horrified at what you will find. By the way, mine sat for 7 years. Good luck

[Norm's Coupe]

Have you tried priming the carb to get the fuel flowing?

[Young Ed]

My 51 ply had a bad fuel line from the tank. There was a spot about 3inches long on the frame that was all wet from gas seeping out. With some priming of the carb that car would still run and drive. And that gas tank was the nastiest thing I've ever seen inside. Rust holes under the straps(they were also seeping) and 6 rocks and lots of rust inside the tank.

[claybill]

prime it! squirt a long stream of CARB CLEANER (not ether) down the carb throat and imediately hit the starter....

bill

[claybill]

prime it! squirt a long stream of CARB CLEANER (not ether) down the carb throat and imediately hit the starter....with choke open!

bill

[JoelOkie]

Probably one of the faily easily fixed issues already mentioned. I cannot tell from your post if you have had the fuel line unhooked at the tank after you put gas back in, so, do you know for sure if you are getting any/much gas out of the tank? I learned from experience that because air will go in doesn't mean that gas will come out, at least enough. I once had a similar issue with my 46 plymouth coupe I had just bought that had sat for a number of years in which the oilite (sp?) filter in the fuel tank was almost completely shut off with accumulated varnish, and although in my case there was enough of a trickle of fuel to start the car, there was not a sufficiant volume of fuel leaving the tank for acceleration. The car would start and idle until accelerated, but that's as far as it went. It seemed to be getting fuel ok at the carb, until I checked the flow volume by unhooking the line past the fuel pump and catching the fuel while cranking. Barely a little actually moving through the line, just enough for a start and rough idle. I "installed" the old one gallon gas tank under the hood to test the fuel pump, and the engine worked perfectly, so I knew the fuel pump was working. I blew compressed air through the line back into the tank also, but still could not get a good flow of gas out. I ended up cutting the top out of the tank to get to get at the filter, and it was so totally encrusted I had to remove it. Maybe the extreme longshot, as I have never read another post about anyone else having to cut into their tank, but if all else suggested fails to solve your problem you can check that out also. Good Luck, Joel

[Frank Elder]

The small rubber hose by the fuel pump can be rotted on the inside too, not allowing fuel to pass properly.

[greg g]

You did not mention the age or condition of the fuel pump. So you might need to see it it is also plugged. Most have a fine brass screen in them which can clog, there is also a hollow bolt holding the bottom plate on. This can become clogged also.

A simple test for fuel flow is to disconnect the loine at the carb, pull the coil wire and crank the starter. With the engine turning, the pump should push out fuel in pulses, counting 12 pulses should give you 8 or more ounces in a container. If not something is still blocked. If you are gettin sufficient fuel there, you might have a stuck float or a plugged needle and seat int eh carb inlet.

[Young Ed]

His fuel pump is rebuilt per his post

[Norm's Coupe]

Also, since the car has sat so long with that old gas, pick up a bottle of HEET and dump it into the gas tank. This will help get rid of any moisture in the gas and make it easier to ignite.

[1just4don]

try using a solid stream of WD-40 as a gas source(straight into the carb top) till yours gets going. Works better than carb cleaner cause it lubes and fuels.

[randroid]

Folks,

1. The best way to get water out of the tank is with Isopropyl alcohol. In fact, regardless of whatever fancy packaging it receives, the only thing that will consistently remove moisture from gas is Isopropynol (rubbing alcohol) which is so cheap as to be worth a try even if you think I'm blowing smoke. Water and alcohol will mix together freely, as will alcohol mix with gasoline, so the alcohol puts the water into suspension in the gasoline and out of the tank it goes. Water in gas is not necessarily a great situation for any internal combustion engine so every effort taken to drain every drop of water from the tank prior to adding the alcohol will be appreciated by everyone and everything involved.

2. WD-40 is a wonderful product that I use on a regular basis, but it's success is formulated on breaking-apart petroleum-based molecules and should NEVER be sprayed into an oil or fuel system unless you plan on changing the oil in the next few minutes.

3. NAPA is reputed to carry fuel line that can be bent by hand to not kink while conforming to any situation, and a few forum members have tried it with positive feedback. It's supposed to be cheap enough that there's no need to not use it.

Keep us posted, please. I'm going to replace Pigiron's ('48 P-15) fuel lines next summer after it's painted and would appreciate your feedback.

-Randy

[Joe Flanagan]

I used NAPA's bendable fuel lines recently. I was very impressed. For gradual bends, you can do it by hand, but anything fairly tight, forget it. They will kink. It's best to have a bender on hand, even for these. Once I got up by the fuel pump and carb, I had to get the bender out. Even so, they're much easier to work with than the traditional lines.

[Tyler drives Betty]

Thanks for all the input- I really appreciate it!

To address a few of the ideas -

- I've replaced the short rubber fuel line from the hard line to the pump.

- I just finished the rebuild on the fuel pump. I like the idea of having the pump draw straight from a portable tank - to test the pump. I'll give that a shot.

- I think the 'oilite' filter might be an issue - I read a few posts about guys using compressed air to blow them out into the tank interior, but I don't have that kind of equipment. Any alternate ways to knock it out without removing the tank?

- Good thought on the fuel moisture - I actually siphoned the old gas, added fresh, and siphoned again. There's still some remaining in the bottom, but it should be diluted enough with fresh to be functional.

So my next question is this -

If what I'm seeing is an air leak from the fuel lines, how can I isolate that? Do I need to be using plumbers tape on the fuel lines? We never used to, and we dealt with tank debris once before. Would an air leak be enough to stop all fuel from making it to the pump?

[greg g]

Don't use teflon where gas might be in contact. You don't need a lot of pressure to back blow the lines to the tank. If you can attach a bicycle pump tot he hose on the tank side of the pump that would be suficient.

[Tyler drives Betty]

I'm answering some of my own questions with the good ol' search function...

Sounds like I need to:

A) Test my fuel pump rebuild by attempting a start while feeding it from a gas can.

Look into getting the oilite filter outta there- a shot of air, or drop the tank.

[Don Jordan]

One of the things I did - though this is not universally accepted - I got an electric fuel pump. Plug that puppy in, disconnect the fuel line to the carb, and turn it on. If the lines are clear, no obstructions, you should have a steady stream of gas.

Before that you should get a spray bottle with gas in it and spray it down the throat of the carb and try to start it. If it doesn't run then gas is not your problem. If it only runs while you're spraying gas into the carb then it's the delivery system.

that's always worked for me.

d-

[Jim Saraceno]

You need to do a few tests to determine where the problem is.

First do a volume test. The pump should put out 5-6 ounces in 15 strokes.

If that is not good put a pressure/vacuum gauge between the pump and carb. It should be about 4 1/2 lbs.

Then put the pressure/vacuum gauge on the fuel pump inlet. You should get 6 inches.

This should give you an idea if it is the pump or the lines.

These tests are covered in more detail in shop and MOTORS manuals. You should check them out and make a diagnosis rather than just trying things to see if they work. It'll be cheaper and easier on you.

The last time I had fuel problems I found that a fuel line rusted through, was sucking air and had sloughed off enough rust to clog the fuel pump. I had to replace the line then take the fuel pump apart, clean it out and all was well again

Good luck!

[JoelOkie]

Thanks for all the input- I really appreciate it!

To address a few of the ideas -

- I've replaced the short rubber fuel line from the hard line to the pump.

- I just finished the rebuild on the fuel pump. I like the idea of having the pump draw straight from a portable tank - to test the pump. I'll give that a shot.

- I think the 'oilite' filter might be an issue - I read a few posts about guys using compressed air to blow them out into the tank interior, but I don't have that kind of equipment. Any alternate ways to knock it out without removing the tank?

- Good thought on the fuel moisture - I actually siphoned the old gas, added fresh, and siphoned again. There's still some remaining in the bottom, but it should be diluted enough with fresh to be functional.

So my next question is this -

If what I'm seeing is an air leak from the fuel lines, how can I isolate that? Do I need to be using plumbers tape on the fuel lines? We never used to, and we dealt with tank debris once before. Would an air leak be enough to stop all fuel from making it to the pump?

If your fuel pump IS working I would start at the gas tank and go forward. If you are getting a good volume of gas out of the tank, then it's pretty simple, get new fuel line to run to the fuel pump.

Tyler, you don't say why you think the oilite filter might be an issue. Is it because you are not getting a good stream of gas coming out of the tank when you disconnect the fuel line from the tank? To me, in light of your problem with that having been obstructed, (as per your first post), that is the first check I would make. To get it open enough for air to go through might or might not have opened it enough for gas to come out in the volume it needs to, but if it was obstructed and you were blowing through it to clear it, unless you purged by letting gas run out when you put some in the tank before reconnecting the fuel line to the tank, whatever was obstructing (rust, varnish, gunk,ect.) could likely still be in there, and thus could obstruct it again. Also, did you get the ferrule back in when you reconnected the fuel line to the tank?

You mention having dealt with tank debris once before. Did you pull the tank at that time? If not, you might want to think about going ahead and doing it. All my fuel tank debris related issue experience in the past has led to the same solution in the end....get the the tank off and get it good and clean. Good Luck, Joel

Edited December 9, 2009 by JoelOkie

[Tyler drives Betty]

Thanks for the suggestions & help. I do have a service manual, and a '67 motors manual. They've been helpful, but they don't cover everything!

There was some tank debris before, but we didn't have plugging issues. The very bad state of the gas I took out,and the varnish blockages I got out of the lines, make me think that the varnish could be the issue on the filter.

I'll chase these ideas a bit, and let you all know how it goes.

[Tyler drives Betty]

An update -

gas in the carb = running car. That's good news! Loved hearing that flathead lump along, if just for a moment.

There is fresh fuel in the line all the way to the fuel pump.

The battery is on the charger, and as soon as it's ready I've got the fuel pump isolated with a line to a 1-gallon tank, and the other end into a bucket. I'll check the function & volume of the fuel pump. I've also eliminated the 2nd fuel filter before the carb.

Wish me luck!

[Dennis Hemingway]

Tyler, If your around Laughlin Nv in April I plan on being at the AVI Casino for their annual car show.

Dennis:cool:

http://www.rivercruizers.com/SpringRodRun/index.htm

[BobT-47P15]

Is the gas cap the vented type?

If not, can cut off the flow.