OT Goodbye Pontiac OT

[gnoub1948]

We make quality cars and trucks. But most are not too exciting. Chrysler did a nice job with the retros they just brought out. Ford did a nice job with the Mustang. What was GM thinking with the GTO? And then there's the Pontiac Aztec. Of course, now that the government is running GM, that should fix all the problems? For sure they have no idea what we want to buy, but I'm sure they have an idea what they want us to buy. I'm betting it will be a huge screw up, and in the end it will be Chevy and Caddy, maybe. Wonder how long the big V8 has left?

For me, more than ever, I rather drive modernized cars of the 40's and 50's, and my Silverado.

Gary

[eric wissing]

Pontiac's success was a long time ago. It was a different time, cheap gas , no real foreign competition. DeLorean had to fight to make Pontiac exciting back in the 60s. Today, what is the difference between Chevy, Buick and Pontiac? I went to a Pontiac show with my neighbor last year in Omaha. There were hundreds of Pontiacs. It was a good time. I am afraid that is the point "WAS".

Do not blame the Government. GM has been poorly run for 20+ years. Eric

[blueskies]

I can't think of a single modern Pontiac model, aside from the abortion AZTEC, the lame minivan "Montana", and the inept GTO econobox.

Can you?

What's to lose? Seems to me that the name has been riding on the succes of the muscle car era for a long time, with no significant contribution whatsoever since. All it has been for decades is a re-badge of some other GM car to begin with.

Pete

[Normspeed]

Sad to see the brand go away but I agree, they aren't what they used to be. For myself, I don't think I will be buying anything new for the rest of my life, so the loss of the brands won't affect my choice of future vehicles.

Even the ones I own that are not orphans (my Fords) are no longer supported by the manufacturer. Everything I need I get from aftermarket folks because Ford conveniently forgot to make key replacement parts for them. The American manufacturers have no one to blame but their own arrogant management for the spot they are in.

[gnoub1948]

Norm, that's a nice Pontiac. Love that old style!

Gary

[rolliejoe]

pontiac-

our cars are crap so lets slap on a lot of plastic mouldings and spoilers to build excitement.

[dirty dan]

We make quality cars and trucks. But most are not too exciting. Chrysler did a nice job with the retros they just brought out. Ford did a nice job with the Mustang. What was GM thinking with the GTO? And then there's the Pontiac Aztec. Of course, now that the government is running GM, that should fix all the problems? For sure they have no idea what we want to buy, but I'm sure they have an idea what they want us to buy. I'm betting it will be a huge screw up, and in the end it will be Chevy and Caddy, maybe. Wonder how long the big V8 has left?

For me, more than ever, I rather drive modernized cars of the 40's and 50's, and my Silverado.

Gary

The GM car isn't a quality product. Google Pontiac steering problems. For years they've had a problem with the steering column making "clunks" and feeling loose when you turn the wheel. Pontiac swears it's not a safety issue and refuses to cover it under warranty. Also, they've never bothered to fix the design problem or provide for an easier fix. The cure is to take apart the steering column and re-lube the I-shaft.

This is only one of several problems with my wife's Pontiac that has @ 40,000 miles. Personally, I don't consider that good quality.

My Dodge truck has >100,000 miles. Other than routine maintenance, I've changed the $35.00 egr valve which was a 15 minute job.

[RobertKB]

My first car was a 1958 Pontiac which was great. The best car I ever owned was a 1977 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon which I owned for 25 years. I don't know about the new ones but if they are like my 2003 Chev Impala, I would like them. Unfortunately, the American car companies built a lot of small car crap in the 70's and 80's and even though their products now are pretty good, people have long memories. They say the new Chev Malibu is as good or better than the Toyota Camry or Honda Civic. Too little too late. I believe GM will survive but only as a shadow of its former self.

[dezeldoc]

Ding dong the indian is dead, the indian is dead!!

[Norm's Coupe]

Well guys, if we keep bashing the American cars they will most defiantly keep going down the tubes. A lot of people seem to want to bash Chevy for example. But........I've always had good luck with them. Also have had many Fords and also good luck with those. Right now I have a 95 Chevy Lumina APV that I've owned since about 96. I haven't had any major problems with it either. Just a oil pressure sending unit, alternator, heater fan and electric window motor replacement, other than regular maintenance. Have 82,000 miles on the car. With all those years and that small amount of problems this van doesn't owe me anything, even if it died today.

Keep in mind, all cars are a mechanical machine. Any mechanical machine needs to have parts replaced from time to time, regardless if it's a machine in a factory or a automobile. And, regardless of who built it. It's just a fact of life.

The real problem with an automobile is the fact that people are so dependent on them to get from point A to point B. So..........when it does break down, all of a sudden we think it's a catastrophe and the thing is a piece of junk, simply because now we have to spend money to fix it and you can't do what you wanted to do now, until it is fixed.

When it comes to foreign cars someone mentioned the high quality of Toyota. Well.........here again it's a machine and it has an owner who is human. I only know a few people that own a Toyota, and they bash it also because they have to have it repaired, just like the American cars.

When my wife wanted to buy a new car in 2002 she looked at all cars. Then she said the Kia Spectra she found on the internet looked "Cute". I had wanted her to buy an Impala but she liked the "cute" Kia. At that time I had heard nothing but bad mouthing about Kia cars, so wasn't too happy about her decision. So.........in an effort to switch her back to the Impala I went on many internet searches to find bad stuff about the Kia cars. Well........I did find people bad mouthing the Kia cars. However, every one of those complaints were about something stupid about having to replace an exhaust system after about 90,000 to 100,000 miles. Don't know about you, but I call that normal maintenance, as was the other problems I read about. But.......here again, the owner had to spend money to fix it, so they were upset. I didn't see any complaints on model years after about the year 2000. So........she ended up buying the Kia. We have had absolutely no problems with it in 43,000 miles now. But.........I'll still bet there are some Kia's (like other cars) out there that have had many problems. You get bad and good in every marque. It's just the luck of the draw when you buy any car, simply because it's just a machine, and not all machines are perfect.

So.........let's stop bashing the American car industry and start supporting it. Even if you don't buy one don't be negative about them. Be positive. And, if you don't like something in particular about one make or the other, sit down and write that company a letter and tell them. While doing so, make it a positive letter of complaint. To do that, give a suggestion on how to make it better. That will help them make the negative a positive. And remember one thing. Your suggestion may not be done or even sent up the ladder. That's simply because you don't build them, you just drive them.

Disclaimer: No I'm not in any way connected to any American car maker. Know no one who is, or works for them.

[TodFitch]

...SNIP... I went on many internet searches to find bad stuff about the Kia cars. Well........I did find people bad mouthing the Kia cars. However' date=' every one of those complaints were about something stupid about having to replace an exhaust system after about 90,000 to 100,000 miles. ...SNIP...[/quote']

Not just cars. Our Sears Kenmore front load clothes washer (actually a store branded something else) developed a leak. I went Internet surfing for information and found tons of horror stories about that model in its various brandings. Almost scared me off of getting it fixed as why put good money after bad. But nearly all the stories ended up really being about bad service. Things like having to replace the entire drum, bearings and seals to fix a leak between the two halves of the housing for nearly the cost of a new washer.

I ended up buying the gasket myself (about $20) and doing the install one weekend morning. Problem fixed. And if $20 of maintenance is all that is needed every 5 to 10 years I am happy.

But I ended up figuring out that the only people who post positive reviews are those who just got the thing and are still jazzed about it. Most reviews on any product that can break or needs periodic maintenance seem to be bad because the people with bad experiences, even if self-induced, are the ones who post. The people who never have any problem or who do the required maintenance are much less likely to post reviews.

[dezeldoc]

Norm, till I got laid off i bought a new car every year, every one was a dodge, bought a 92 explorer for the wife, in 5 years she put over 350 thousand miles on it, sold it and it is still on the road today with no major problems. wifes new car is a 05 kia optima and it has 89 thousand on it nothing done to but brakes. i buy them so i can bash them!! personal preferance is how i buy, if i like i buy it. personaly i don't like the new chevys so i won't buy one.

[greg g]

The problem with the US car industry is not one of quality. It is one of value and selling cars to people that can't afford them. Today if you buy an american car, say the Chevy Malibu, a Dodge Avenger, a Pontiac G6, a Ford Fusion, You buy a mid level one its gonna cost you 21 to 23 K. So you trade in your beater and maybe scrape 500 bucks down, Even is you are lucky enough to get 0 Financing, if you do the math at the end of the 1st year you are going to pay out like 4 grand, the car, any one of them will be worth about 11K, so you are now upside down in that situation owing 18 to 19k on a vehicle worth 11 or 12. The Honda, Toyota, Subaru, migh cost you a couple thousand more to buy but at the end of the first year will be worth 16 to 19. At the end of the second year the American car is worth even less and by the ed of the 3rd year is nearly worthless, trade in wise. Theother problem was the deal with leasing where they proped up residual values to give you a lower monthly payment on the lease. Problem is when the leases ended they flooded the market with these over valued cars that nobody wanted, so they cut the price and floded the used car market.

We see it here every day, one dealer buying up Impala rental units, selling used 09 for 15k ,8 to 10 K less than a new one. He just bought 150 Kia Optimas and is selling them fo 13900 with 8 to 12 K miles on them. Why would you by a new car except fo the 6 year 0% fiancing deals.

So if some one gave me 20K to go buy a car, I would be heading to the Honda dealer, and buy either a new Civic or a used Accord. Or the same deal at the Toyota store withthe corrola/ Camry.

Why, my daughter is driving a 94 accord I bought in late 94. It has 160K on it, been in the shop once for stuff other that regular wear parts. The dreaded timing belt change at 70K. So other than brakes, tires, a radiator, a couple CV joints, it has been as close to trouble free as possible, I think it is on its third battery and second muffler. And I can still sell it for about 2500 bucks.

[Norm's Coupe]

Good point about all the leased cars Greg. But.........when it comes to people buying a new car of some kind for 0%, I don't consider them lucky at all. Have you read the fine print on the 0% financing in the car ads. Every one I've read says something like 60 months at 0% and none of the rebates are available with the 0% financing. If you take the rebates they say the interest rates are between 6 & 7%. So...........either way, you are paying the same price. That's no deal in my book. You are still paying the interest or more if you take that 0% financing.

[greg g]

folks with less than Stellar credit scores do not qualify for the 0% stuff. And probably not the 6% either. Thats just to get people in the doors so the finance people can lie to them. If it seems to good to be true, is probably is.

I have never gone into the stealership with out knowing my fiance options and the cost of money to me from other sources. I have only used the dealer financing once, on a lease deal for one of my wife's cars. A Mitsubishi

Galant that was a disposable ride but absolutely trouble free for the 36K miles.

I believe we got that one for 179 a month.

[dezeldoc]

I got lucky the co i was working for had a deal with chrysler and ford, ford was x plan witch is 1% over employe price and chrysler we got 1% above cost. and still got the 0%. a buddy was wanting to buy a new truck before he retires and wanted a king ranch f350, the guy was giving him a deal at 53 grand and change! my son went to the lot where he works and took a pic of the sticker off aother one and sent it to him 63 and change! needless to say he rethinking his game plan. on to the lease thing, we bought the wife a voyager van for 23 and a year later it was worth less than 10 ! lesson learned never buy any kind of car that is used in a rental fleet.

[gnoub1948]

I have to say that the Chevys I've owned (three Suburbans, one Silverado and two Corvettes) have been great cars. I've had a number of Benzs. Talk about a maintenance nightmare. As much as I dislike the style of most American cars, I will only buy American cars from now on. They may be old or they may be trucks, but that's what I plan to do. For the money, there's no better engine than an American V8. Just hope they stay around! Wish I still had my '63 Riviera. Now that was a beautiful car! I have to stay that all this GM stuff really depresses me. Guess I better get back to work on my De Soto.

Gary

[Normspeed]

if you don't like something in particular about one make or the other, sit down and write that company a letter and tell them. While doing so, make it a positive letter of complaint. To do that, give a suggestion on how to make it better. That will help them make the negative a positive. And remember one thing. Your suggestion may not be done or even sent up the ladder. That's simply because you don't build them, you just drive them.

Norm, ever try that? I did numerous times by phone, mail and email. Each time I got the most unelievable canned responses you could imagine. Pure scripted replies, as if spewed by a machine. They have no pride...or shame:D

I think it was Will Rogers that said, "If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" Substitute arrogance for stupidity and you have the big 3.

[Captain Neon]

My brother, the Lexus-driving chiropractor who's time is too valuable to change his own oil, bashes Neons and PT Cruisers constantly. Other than my own stupidity in attempting to change the tranny oil in 2001 and the ubiquitous (and embarrassing) head gasket problem, I've had a trouble-free Neon. I went 100K on the first set of brakes. Car runs like new at 110K, and doesn't use a drop of oil. I'm on my third battery and third set of tyres (Two sets of Goodyear, now running Coopers). All original exhaust, and have changed one taillight bulb. I change my own oil every 2000 miles, replace the air filter every 6000 miles, and regularly use fuel system cleaner. I changed my plugs and timing belt as required too. Almost time for a new timing belt and plugs again... I love my little Neon! Good maintenance is key to a good experience with any car or anything mechanical.

For the $35K my brother paid for his used Lexus, I would rather have a PT Cruiser and a 300M. My brother accuses the Chrysler 300 series as having bad trannies. For how much he paid for his used Lexus, I can get a nice used PT Cruiser and a 300M and rebuild the trannies on both. In his case, he's screwed, glued, and tattooed if his car breaks down. No spare. Me, I walk to work every day, and I still have five different vehicles in running condition to take me anywhere at the drop of a hat.

I have only MoPars in my stable, and hope that I can keep it that way, but with the struggles Chrysler is facing and my rather young age (35), I may have to buy another brand for a daily driver in a few decades out of pure necessity. I mourned the loss of the Plymouth brand, but I know that Pontiac is being dismantled for the same reason Plymouth was. Rebadged versions of other vehicles being sold.

Unfortunately, things may have been better had Chrysler badged the PT Cruiser a Plymouth as originally planned. I will mourn the loss of Chrysler Corporation if it ever happens. Perhaps the Chrysler Corp. that I love so much already died after Daimler bought them out...

BTW, my brother's lawn mower stopped working this spring due to poor maintenance. Mine started right up after its annual oil & spark plug change. Dunno if he ever got his going. I would hate to see his yard if he hasn't.

[Norm's Coupe]

if you don't like something in particular about one make or the other' date=' sit down and write that company a letter and tell them. While doing so, make it a positive letter of complaint. To do that, give a suggestion on how to make it better. That will help them make the negative a positive. And remember one thing. Your suggestion may not be done or even sent up the ladder. That's simply because you don't build them, you just drive them.

Norm, ever try that? I did numerous times by phone, mail and email. Each time I got the most unelievable canned responses you could imagine. Pure scripted replies, as if spewed by a machine. They have no pride...or shame:D

I think it was Will Rogers that said, "If stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?" Substitute arrogance for stupidity and you have the big 3.[/quote']

Yes I have done things like that before, and, got basically the same type reply you got. But.........that's really to be expected because they can't possibly give a quick personalized response to each person calling or writing in about something. It's the same thing when you send a letter to a politicians office. You get a general response. But.......those letters and calls are put on record and looked at. If they get enough of those letters and calls regarding the same thing, someone will pay attention and at least discuss it with their staff, or whoever they need to discuss it with. So.......the more people making those calls and writing letters on a subject, the better. Also keep in mind that as an individual, you or I may think something needs changing a certain way. But.....as a whole the same opinion may not be the same as yours or mine. Therefore, they are not going to make that change suggested based solely on our opinion.

But........as mentioned before, if you make a suggestion how to make something better, it's better than just complaining about something. Also remember. Honey catches more flies than vinegar when complaining.

[LAKOTA169]

Two Pontiacs I owned. 1959 Catalina and 1964 GTO. Wish I still had them. GTO was driven hard. Detroit Dragway on Saturday and Sunday and cruising Woodward every night during the week.

[Rodney Bullock]

Now those are Pontiac's Wow real nice. Maybe it's my fault that pontiac is in trouble, I had mine for 30 years:) I just can't part with a good thing. I think the best years are behind them, maybe they stayed to long at the ball.

[BobT-47P15]

Back in the '70s, I bought a 1960 Bonneville convertible from a retired

airline pilot who moved to our area from California. The guy was smart

enough to fly planes, but not so smart about the oil in his car. He had

been using 10 weight (like break-in oil) for right at 99,000 miles.

I bought the car, which was pretty darn nice (Firethorn Red with

matching leather interior......front bucket seats).....drove it for a

while.......and when it hit 100,000, the engine locked up.

So I found another good 389 (i think that's what they are), had it

rebuilt, and installed in the convert. Drove like a champ. Then we

bought a 67 Ford Galaxie 500 XL convert, which the wife liked. So

we finally decided we needed to sell one car.......the Pontiac, being

older, then went bye bye.

It was bought by a guy from Fayetteville, Ark......who installed fender

skirts, those finned aluminum 65 Pontiac wheels, and had it repainted.

He drove it for a few years and sold it to a guy from Minnesota who

was putting together a car collection.

Also had a 65 Bonneville two door hardtop that was nice, but had an

overheating problem. May have just needed a new radiator, but I

didn't do it.......just sold it.

There are several other models of Pontiac I like.....just think some of them

are nifty cars.

[Norm's Coupe]

BobT.

Seems you are partial to the topless ones of all shapes and sizes.

[Don Coatney]

In the fall of 1968 I bought a Pontiac two door post with a V-8 for less than a hundred bucks. Two days later I drove this car from Northern, Ohio to Sarasota Florida with my 750 snortin Norton motorcycle in toe. I remember building the towing arrangement as I used a round hunk of steel and bored it to fit the front axle of the Norton, welded a piece of channel iron to it and bolted it solid to the trailer hitch on the Pontiac where the “ball” would normally bolt on. I then removed the front wheel from the bike and bolted the bottom of the front forks to my hitch. Worked great and I think I still have this hitch somewhere in my archives. In those days I could pick up the front end of the bike with one hand and finagle the bolt into the axle with the other hand. I had less than two hundred bucks in my pocket when I hit the road and this Pontiac never failed me. I connected with some friends in Florida and spent the winter there working first as a tree trimmer and then as a mechanic in a gas station.