Relocation of front shocks

[Jim Yergin]

I have a question about the relocation of the front shocks using the parts that Charlie sells. I understand that the relocation is suposed to improve the handling of the car. My question is what specific improvement will there be? Now that I am able to drive my car I am aware that it is not a modern car and does not handle accordingly (though the four wheel disc brakes sure do help). Sometimes it feels like a boat riding on the waves. Would the relocation of the front shocks affect that tendency? My front end has been rebuilt and I have new shocks all the way around.

Jim Yergin

[greg g]

The current stock mounts only work through a very short cycle based on the different arch transcribed by the upper and lower A arms. So while they are damping the travel, they are not damping the length of coil movement. Standard practice to damp the entire length of the movement, the distance the axle moves in relation to the frame. The adapters that move the upper mounting to the frame emulates this practice. Currently if your springs deforms 3 inches, from a bump or when going around a turn, you rshock only moves a fraction of that. Mounting the shock to the bracket on the frame means that the shock moves about the same amount as the axle. That spreads the damping force and adds what ever frictional resistance there is from the extra distance to the resistance to roll of the body.

Lets face it, it isn't going to change your Boulevard cruiser into a Baja Runner, but it will help quite a bit. Plus with the increased length you can

upgrade to a gas charged shock which also helps a bit. It is probabl well worth the investment.

Some have also suggested that a pair of upper shock brackets from ford f 1 trucks can be used either bolted through or welded to the frame

[HughForrest]

If you look over on the HAMB I did a post awhile back about the shock mount install. Search by my HAMB name: 4woodie

[PatS....]

I think it's the single most dramatic improvement that can be made to our cars.

Changes the feel from a bowl of Jello to almost a modern car feel, in a good way.

And it can be reversed if a future owner wants.

[Frank Elder]

Is this a Plymouth thing or is there a Dodge kit?

[Fireball]

If you look over on the HAMB I did a post awhile back about the shock mount install. Search by my HAMB name: 4woodie

This is the topic at HAMB

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215548

[Jim Yergin]

Thank you all. Sounds like something to do to lessen the "cresting the waves feel."

Jim Yergin

[Young Ed]

Jim you'll be a good test subject for my theory. I've never driven a mopar with the shocks moved but I've never found mine to have issues either. So since you already have new shocks with the old system we'll find out if you feel its an improvement.

[Reg Evans]

Is this a Plymouth thing or is there a Dodge kit?

Same question here.

Grandpadodge

[PatS....]

Same question here.

Grandpadodge

The front ends are virtually identical, so the bracket will fit both, as well as Chrysler and DeSoto.

[BeBop138]

If you look over on the HAMB I did a post awhile back about the shock mount install. Search by my HAMB name: 4woodie

Hugh, if you know which shock you are going to use and you cut the travel in half before welding---do you need to take out the springs?

[PatS....]

When I put my bracket in a few years ago (it was from Mr Street Rod) there was no need to take anything apart, just locate it properly as per the instructions. It used Chevy pick-up front shocks (73 to 87). Used the stock Mopar lower shock mount.

(These pics are from the Rod and Custom article linked below)

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/135_0501_1951_plymouth_suburban_wagon/index.html

[rearview]

I also just welded on Charlie's brackets last weekend. Will know how it rides on Feb 12 when it gets driven to the World of Wheels show in Milwaukee. No matter what, it has to feel better than the swaying Titanic feel.

[HughForrest]

As others have said it is not that big a deal to take out the springs.

I'd say to do it so you can cycle the suspension through its whole travel with your hands. In my case the lower mount turned out to want to be in a different place than I'd expected, and that is important so that you hit your bumpstop before the shock runs out of travel.

It turned out my bump stops had been replaced with some that were just plain too short, and I'd never have noticed. Also, I've done the shock relocation on both a 50 Plymouth and a 38 Chrysler and the lower mount (and in fact the whole install) was different on the both of them.

I suggest pulling the springs.

[Norm's Coupe]

Part of owning these old cars is the nostalgic feel of the car. If you change those things, you loose that and may as well buy a new car.

I for one like the boat ride. In our teenage years we would look for hilly side roads. Speed up as we were going up the hill and sort of glide over the crest and let off the gas. Gave you the feeling of a sudden drop like the old elevators did when you suddenly dropped off at the crest to go down the other side. Had lots of fun doing that. The feel just isn't the same doing that in a modern car.

[rearview]

Norm, Mine being a bit lower than stock, the relocation was almost necessary. I will bottom the front on compression, so something had to be done. The boat ride is cool and fun, but the hard stop at the bottom of travel isn't. People have different reasons for doing things. It'll still have the nostalgic feel: it's still slow and it's still real ugly.

[Norm's Coupe]

Bob,

Are you going to have your car in the show at the Fairgrounds in February. I've never gone to that show. All the ads I've ever seen for it, they always show the cars roped off, and they all looked like trailer queens. So.......never went because of that. Hopefully you won't have icy roads to drive on that weekend.

[rearview]

It's not all "gold chain" cars. There's a couple of groups with traditional type stuff to keep it real. I'll be in with the Hoodlums from Waterford, and the Cheaters from Milwaukee will have some real cars also. We were sitting on fenders and drinking beer last year, so there's a little of something for everybody. It's a little overrated for a show, but it's the only car fix in the winter here. Come on down and check out the ugliest car in the show.

[Norm's Coupe]

That's the news media for you. All they show on the news is the ones with the mirror's and lights under the car, and all roped off so you can't get closer than about 5 or 10 feet away. So just assumed it was a waste. Didn't know they had just drivers there. Are they also inside the building?

If you're looking for more car fix during February and March there is also the swap meet in Slinger, WI at the Washington County Fairgrounds. It's a small meet though. Usually the last weekend of February or first one of March. It's put on by the Ford V8 Club, but there is other stuff for other cars there. For those hardy cold weather soles a few of the booths are even open sided barns outside. I've been there when the temperatures are around zero and those vendors outside were just sitting there with their stove's going strong. You can probably do the whole swap meet in about an hour or so.

[rearview]

spinning the World of Wheels BS into a new thread.

...now back to your regularly scheduled program

[Frank Blackstone]

felling of the bottom falling out., sex pains. Surprisingly when you jump out of a perfectly good airplane there is no feeling of falling. Until you get ready to land. Then it is too late to do anything. Freefall Frank

[Jim Yergin]

Starting with Greg G's tip about F-1 shock mounts I did some research. It turns out that Plymouth used very similar shock mounts in 1937 and 1938 cars as well as pick-up trucks. These vehicles did not have the IFS. I even saw some close up pictures of the '37 set-up on the 1937 promotional video posted on the Allpar site. I just received delivery of a pair that I found on eBay. Once it warms up enough to work in the garage I plan on trying to install them on my '41 P12. Has anyone else done this with these parts? Any tips?

Thanks.

Jim Yergin

[greg g]

Jim, the ones I have seen locate the topof the shock as close to vertical as possible in relation ship to the front to back frame rail with mount facing forward, then locat the bottom onto the frame to achieve the most meat around the mounting bolt holes. You will likely need some longer shocks, I think the same ones that Carlie recommends for his would work.

The shock should be in the midlde of its travel with the car sitting with weight on the wheel.

[55 Fargo]

Bob' date='

Are you going to have your car in the show at the Fairgrounds in February. I've never gone to that show. All the ads I've ever seen for it, they always show the cars roped off, and they all looked like trailer queens. So.......never went because of that. Hopefully you won't have icy roads to drive on that weekend.[/quote']

Or worse yet, salt water hitting everything in the wheels and under the car, yuck.................Fred

[Don Coatney]

when you jump out of a perfectly good airplane there is no feeling of falling. Until you get ready to land. Then it is too late to do anything. Freefall Frank

Frank;

Care to share with us how you know this?