Could I Get Some Help With The ID Of This Old Girl.

[Guest mobil300]

I Have Come Into A New Project And Have Run Into Conflicting Information As To The Actual Year And Model. I Was Hoping You Might Be Able To Help.

Images Avaliable Here

It Was Originally Advertised As A "1941 Dodge", However My Resident Dodge Expert At Work, Believes It A 1940. Since I'm Missing The Whole Front End, Making A Positive ID Has Been Increasingly Difficult. Also I Have Found Pictures Of Both The 1940 And 1941 Dodge Deluxe's Interior, But Have Yet To Find One With An Intrument Panel That Matchs The One In My Car.

Thanks,

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

[TodFitch]

What is the number from the serial number tag?

It will be on the front passenger door hinge post (pre-War) or front driver door hinge post (post-War).

[Guest mobil300]

Serial Number Tag Is Unreadable At This Time, I'm Going To Try And Clean It Up Tonight And I'll Have More Info Early Next Week, I'll Also Post Pictures As Soon As They Are Avaliable.

Also, Through A Second Forum, We Have Determined That It Is In Fact A 1941 Plymouth 4-Door, But Do Not Know The Exact Model.

Any Help With The Exact Model, And Why It Has Dodge Scripts On The Dash, Trunk Lid, And Steering Wheel Would Be Most Helpful.

Thanks

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

[Andydodge]

Dash is definately 1941 Plymouth, also tailight shape looks like it is too.......andyd

[40deluxe]

Looks like a Canadian Dodge which were mostly a Plymouth with Dodge grille and emblems

[B-Watson]

Dash is definately 1941 Plymouth, also tailight shape looks like it is too.......andyd

No - it is a Dodge - a Canadian-built Plymouth-sized Dodge.

And judging by the fact is has two windshield wipers and a non-opening rear quarter window, I am going to stick my neck out and say it is a D20S Kingsway Special. The Canadian 1941 Dodge line-up was D20 Kingsway, D20S Kingway Special, D21 DeLuxe, D21S DeLuxe Special, D19 Luxury Liner and D19S Luxury Liner Special.

The D19 was the U.S.-style Dodge. The D19 and D20 were the Dodge equivalents of the Plymouth P11 (P11 Roadking and P11S Roadking Special in Canada) and P12 (P12 DeLuxe and P12S Custom in Canada).

The serial number tag is on the passenger side door hinge post. There should be two plates on the firewall - one with "Dodge Division" (originally red) literally in front of the driver's position, and another more toward the centre of the car.

This one was originally done in black with stamped numbers. The entries were, top to bottom -

Model No.

Body No.

Paint Code

Trim Code

The engine number should be stamped on the left side of the block, at the front, just below the head.

Also, the engine, if it is original, is Chrysler's larger 25" block. The 1941 Canadian Dodge (and Plymouth) engine was 218.1-cid with a 3.375" bore and 4.0625" stroke. It put out 88bhp @ 3800 rpm.

As it is based on the Plymouth, the only hard parts to find will be the front trim - grille, hood emblem, hood ornament, etc. Bumpers are Plymouth as is the front sheet metal - the bolt holes are different to match up with the Dodge grille - which is not the same as the larger U.S. Dodge. Also, the headlamp rings, etc. are Plymouth.

I do have the Canadian 1941 parts book if you are in need of assistance there.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[PatS....]

From Allpar to add to Bill's post about Dodges in Canada being rebadged Plymouths...

"and in 1933, Chrysler Canada introduced the Dodge DQ and DP. These were Plymouths with Dodge, front grills, nameplates, and ornamentation; they helped Dodge dealers who needed lower-priced cars, and helped in markets where the senior MoPar names might have had more meaning or prestige. In Great Britain, where registration taxes were based on horsepower, a smaller bore engine was used in some models. The practice of putting Dodge parts and names onto Plymouths did not end until 1959.

From 1946-1950, the Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge Kingsway, while the Special Deluxe became the Regent. For 1951-1952, the Dodge Crusader (D40-1) was a Plymouth Cambridge with a Dodge grille, hood ornament and nameplates, with a long block 218.1-cid flathead six (3.375" bore and 4.062" stroke) rather than the American Plymouth's 217.8-cid (3.25" bore and 4.375" stroke) short block engine. The Dodge Regent (D40-2) was based on the Plymouth Cranbrook, while the Dodge Kingsway (D-39) was the equivalent of the Concord.

All 1950s 6-cylinder Canadian Chrysler vehicles used the longer Windsor/DeSoto block, with Plymouths and Dodges getting a smaller displacement version (228 cubic inches, or about 3.8 litres). The

HyDrive transmission was offered on Canadian Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges as well, which had to retool a HyDrive-specific version of the 228 block in relatively small numbers."

Canadian Pontiacs were actually Chevys with Pontiac skin up until about 1970. Many other makes made their Canadian cars quite different from the US counterparts.

http://www.allpar.com/world/canada.html

[Guest mobil300]

it is a D20S Kingsway Special.

As it is based on the Plymouth, the only hard parts to find will be the front trim - grille, hood emblem, hood ornament, etc. Bumpers are Plymouth as is the front sheet metal - the bolt holes are different to match up with the Dodge grille - which is not the same as the larger U.S. Dodge. Also, the headlamp rings, etc. are Plymouth.

I do have the Canadian 1941 parts book if you are in need of assistance there.

Bill, If I Am Understanding You Correctly, I Can Rebuild Her From Solely Plymouth Parts With The Execption Of The Front Grille(I Assume I Need A CDN Dodge Grill?), Hood Emblem(Dodge?), Hood Ornament(Dodge?), And The Front Trim(Or Is That Part Of The Grille?).

And I'll More Than Likely Take You Up On That Parts Book For Referance.

Thanks To Everybody For The Help,

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

[Guest mobil300]

Bill, On A Second Note, Assuming It Is A Kingsway, Then According To The Production Numbers Chart My Father Linked Me To There Were Only 18,028 Made. Could You(Or Anybody) Confirm This For Me? I Have Attached The Link Below

Production Numbers

Thanks

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

[B-Watson]

Bill, On A Second Note, Assuming It Is A Kingsway, Then According To The Production Numbers Chart My Father Linked Me To There Were Only 18,028 Made. Could You(Or Anybody) Confirm This For Me? I Have Attached The Link Below

Production Numbers

Thanks

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

3,380 1941 Dodge D20 models were built in Detroit (at the Plymouth plant) for export to countries other than Canada. An additional 7,491 D20 Kingsway models were built at Windsor for Canadian and some export production. Also, the Canadian plant built 7,265 Dodge D21 DeLuxe models for Canadian consumption.

Thus total D20 and D21 production came to 14,756 in Canada. Total Plymouth production (P11, P12) came to 16,040.

Not a common vehicle by U.S. standards, but Dodge was usually 3rd or 4th in production in Canada before the war.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[B-Watson]

Bill, If I Am Understanding You Correctly, I Can Rebuild Her From Solely Plymouth Parts With The Execption Of The Front Grille(I Assume I Need A CDN Dodge Grill?), Hood Emblem(Dodge?), Hood Ornament(Dodge?), And The Front Trim(Or Is That Part Of The Grille?).

And I'll More Than Likely Take You Up On That Parts Book For Referance.

Thanks To Everybody For The Help,

Chris

RCD, Petawawa

Pretty much. There is some trim on the front edge of the hood and above the grille that is unique to the Dodge. Judging by the pictures you have all the interior trim plus the rear deck trim. You are missing the taillamps but those are the same as the 1941 Plymouth.

By the way, that red light below the license plate is your brake light. 1941 was the first year Chrysler used a separate lamp for the brake lights - 1949 was the last year.

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[B-Watson]

From Allpar to add to Bill's post about Dodges in Canada being rebadged Plymouths...

"and in 1933, Chrysler Canada introduced the Dodge DQ and DP. These were Plymouths with Dodge, front grills, nameplates, and ornamentation; they helped Dodge dealers who needed lower-priced cars, and helped in markets where the senior MoPar names might have had more meaning or prestige. In Great Britain, where registration taxes were based on horsepower, a smaller bore engine was used in some models. The practice of putting Dodge parts and names onto Plymouths did not end until 1959.

From 1946-1950, the Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge Kingsway, while the Special Deluxe became the Regent. For 1951-1952, the Dodge Crusader (D40-1) was a Plymouth Cambridge with a Dodge grille, hood ornament and nameplates, with a long block 218.1-cid flathead six (3.375" bore and 4.062" stroke) rather than the American Plymouth's 217.8-cid (3.25" bore and 4.375" stroke) short block engine. The Dodge Regent (D40-2) was based on the Plymouth Cranbrook, while the Dodge Kingsway (D-39) was the equivalent of the Concord.

All 1950s 6-cylinder Canadian Chrysler vehicles used the longer Windsor/DeSoto block, with Plymouths and Dodges getting a smaller displacement version (228 cubic inches, or about 3.8 litres). The

HyDrive transmission was offered on Canadian Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges as well, which had to retool a HyDrive-specific version of the 228 block in relatively small numbers."

Canadian Pontiacs were actually Chevys with Pontiac skin up until about 1970. Many other makes made their Canadian cars quite different from the US counterparts.

http://www.allpar.com/world/canada.html

ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I have tried again and again to get the Canadian Dodge story ironed and corrected, but the wrong story keeps getting circulated. If I ever track down the person who started this ...........

" and in 1933, Chrysler Canada introduced the Dodge DQ and DP. These were Plymouths with Dodge, front grills, nameplates, and ornamentation; "

WRONG!! The 1933 Dodge DP was the American Dodge Six that Chrysler of Canada also built. The DP had NO Plymouth parts.

The 1933 Dodge DQ was a Dodge DP with simpler trim and ornamentation. When the DP went from a 111¼" wheelbase to a 115" wheelbase, the DQ remained on the 111¼" wheelbase. The DQ had NO Plymouth parts.

How do I know? I have the 1933 Plymouth and Dodge parts books and compared chassis frames, body, hood, grille, glass, engine, etc. and in every area the DQ used DP parts and neither shared any of the above with any 1933 Plymouth.

Although not quoted here, the 1932 Dodge DM was not built in Canada and was assembled at the Plymouth plant in Detroit. It was a Plymouth with a Dodge grille. It was never sold in Canada.

For 1934 Chrysler of Canada introduced the first Dodge to use the Plymouth chassis and body with Dodge fenders, hood and grille - the DT. Chrysler of Canada continued in 1935 with the DV, the same year Chrysler began building Plymouth-based Dodges for export in Detroit. From 1936 through 1941 Chrysler of Canada built two series each year, mirroring Plymouth's annual two series. The export Dodges were built in one series only, the lower-priced one according to the Canadian line-up. Even convertibles were placed in this one export series, which is why no Plymouth-based Dodge convertibles were imported to Canada after Canadian convertible production ended in 1936.

"From 1946-1950, the Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge Kingsway, while the Special Deluxe became the Regent."

Nope. The 1946-50 Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway DeLuxe in parts of the world outside of America and Canada. The Plymouth Special DeLuxe became the Dodge Special DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway Special DeLuxe for export markets.

The Regent name was not used prior to 1951. Plus Chrysler of Canada never used the Kingsway name from 1942 through 1950 in Canada. And the export Dodges for 1949-52 were Kingsway, Kingsway DeLuxe and Kingsway Custom.

The 1949-50 series names for Dodge in Canada again copied the Plymouth - DeLuxe, DeLuxe and Special DeLuxe. The 1951-52 series names of Kingsway, Crusader and Regent are correct for the Canadian market.

"All 1950s 6-cylinder Canadian Chrysler vehicles used the longer Windsor/DeSoto block, with Plymouths and Dodges getting a smaller displacement version (228 cubic inches, or about 3.8 litres)."

Chrysler of Canada opened their own engine plant in 1938, and thus from 1938 all Canadian-built six-cylinder cars and trucks used the larger 25" block. The 218.1-cid engine was used on Canadian-built Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges from 1940 through 1953. When Hy-Drive was introduced in mid-1953, they switched to the 228.1-cid six formerly used by the Dodge Coronet in Canada. By 1956 the only six cylinder used by Plymouth and Dodge in Canada was the 250.6-cid unit.

"The HyDrive transmission was offered on Canadian Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges as well, which had to retool a HyDrive-specific version of the 228 block in relatively small numbers."

Actually, the converted engines to use the oil supply for Hy-Drive's torque converter were already in production in Canada and the U.S. The Fluid Torque Drive as used by the big Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler began using the engine oil for the torque converter at the beginning of the 1953 model year. And that included, in the U.S., Dodge's 230.6-cid six (adopted by Plymouth with Hy-Drive) and 241.6-cid V8, DeSoto's 250.6-cid six and 276.1-cid V8 and Chrysler's 264.5-cid 6 and 331.1-cid V8.

In Canada, Chrysler of Canada imported the V8 blocks and modified the 264.5-cid six for use in the Canadian DeSoto and Chrysler. As the 228.1-cid block was the same engine as the 264.5-cid engine, with a smaller bore and shorter stroke, the tooling was already in place.

Another little item was the mid-year 1953 Plymouth Belvedere, in hardtop and sedan, introduced to the Canadian market on April 15, 1953. Contrary to what has been written, including Thomas McPherson in his "The Dodge Story", Chrysler of Canada did offer a Dodge equivalent, the Dodge Mayfair. Also, the first imported Plymouth-based Dodge convertible was the 1954 Dodge Mayfair. Chrysler Canada would not start building convertibles until the 1963 model year.

The comments on Pontiac are not quite true, but I have ranted enough.

For a really good book on cars built in Canada from 1930 through 1980, complete with all models, body styles, prices, weights, serial numbers, short historial notes, and for the 1949-66 models, the colours and codes used by Canadian manufacturers, get a copy of my book, published by Amos Press - "Catalog of Canadian Car I.D. Numbers". Amos Press is the publisher of Cars & Parts magazine. (My apologies for the self back patting.)

Bill

Vancouver, BC

[PatS....]

Bill, thanks for the correct info. Goes to show we put too much trust in what's on the internet!

I was simply trying to let the guy know about the existence of the Dodge badged Plymouth's.

As for the Pontiac's, I've owned about 9 Canadian and 3 American and I feel comfortable with the generalization of the Canadian Pontiac's being Chevy's in a Poncho. I never did figure out the ryme or reason about the Pontiac differences. It's sure gonna screw up anyone looking for parts nowadays if they aren't aware of what they have

Not trying to argue as I respect your knowledge but I wasn't writing a book, just passing along the fact that there is some differences to someone who obviously was unaware. From there on, he would be responsible for his own research which would hopefully include your excellent book.

[Guest mobil300]

Bill,

Thanks For All The Help. Your Knowledge Has Been Extremely Helpful. I Have Linked Some New Pictures At The End Of This Post, For Anybosy Who Is Interested, However My Wife Took The Pictures And Negleted To Take On Of The Door Post(Like I Asked).

More Photos Now Avaliable

I've Also Include The Link For A Site To Purchase Bill's Book, Which I Just Ordered Tonight:

Catalog of Canadian Car I.D. Numbers: Avaliable Here

Thanks Again,

Chris

[PatS....]

Always liked those dashes:

[BobT-47P15]

This is the dash in a 40 or 41 Plym Deluxe two door seen in the northeast

corner of Oklahoma several months ago. The seller advertised it as a 42

model, but did not know of what they spoke. They got it from a salvage

yard.

The wife definitely improved the appearance of the ol car........Pretty much the same animal as the Dodge shown in the photos....

Edited March 12, 2010 by BobT-47P15

[1950 Special Deluxe]

ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I have tried again and again to get the Canadian Dodge story ironed and corrected, but the wrong story keeps getting circulated. If I ever track down the person who started this ...........

" and in 1933, Chrysler Canada introduced the Dodge DQ and DP. These were Plymouths with Dodge, front grills, nameplates, and ornamentation; "

WRONG!! The 1933 Dodge DP was the American Dodge Six that Chrysler of Canada also built. The DP had NO Plymouth parts.

The 1933 Dodge DQ was a Dodge DP with simpler trim and ornamentation. When the DP went from a 111¼" wheelbase to a 115" wheelbase, the DQ remained on the 111¼" wheelbase. The DQ had NO Plymouth parts.

How do I know? I have the 1933 Plymouth and Dodge parts books and compared chassis frames, body, hood, grille, glass, engine, etc. and in every area the DQ used DP parts and neither shared any of the above with any 1933 Plymouth.

Although not quoted here, the 1932 Dodge DM was not built in Canada and was assembled at the Plymouth plant in Detroit. It was a Plymouth with a Dodge grille. It was never sold in Canada.

For 1934 Chrysler of Canada introduced the first Dodge to use the Plymouth chassis and body with Dodge fenders, hood and grille - the DT. Chrysler of Canada continued in 1935 with the DV, the same year Chrysler began building Plymouth-based Dodges for export in Detroit. From 1936 through 1941 Chrysler of Canada built two series each year, mirroring Plymouth's annual two series. The export Dodges were built in one series only, the lower-priced one according to the Canadian line-up. Even convertibles were placed in this one export series, which is why no Plymouth-based Dodge convertibles were imported to Canada after Canadian convertible production ended in 1936.

"From 1946-1950, the Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge Kingsway, while the Special Deluxe became the Regent."

Nope. The 1946-50 Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway DeLuxe in parts of the world outside of America and Canada. The Plymouth Special DeLuxe became the Dodge Special DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway Special DeLuxe for export markets.

The Regent name was not used prior to 1951. Plus Chrysler of Canada never used the Kingsway name from 1942 through 1950 in Canada. And the export Dodges for 1949-52 were Kingsway, Kingsway DeLuxe and Kingsway Custom.

The 1949-50 series names for Dodge in Canada again copied the Plymouth - DeLuxe, DeLuxe and Special DeLuxe. The 1951-52 series names of Kingsway, Crusader and Regent are correct for the Canadian market.

"All 1950s 6-cylinder Canadian Chrysler vehicles used the longer Windsor/DeSoto block, with Plymouths and Dodges getting a smaller displacement version (228 cubic inches, or about 3.8 litres)."

Chrysler of Canada opened their own engine plant in 1938, and thus from 1938 all Canadian-built six-cylinder cars and trucks used the larger 25" block. The 218.1-cid engine was used on Canadian-built Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges from 1940 through 1953. When Hy-Drive was introduced in mid-1953, they switched to the 228.1-cid six formerly used by the Dodge Coronet in Canada. By 1956 the only six cylinder used by Plymouth and Dodge in Canada was the 250.6-cid unit.

"The HyDrive transmission was offered on Canadian Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges as well, which had to retool a HyDrive-specific version of the 228 block in relatively small numbers."

Actually, the converted engines to use the oil supply for Hy-Drive's torque converter were already in production in Canada and the U.S. The Fluid Torque Drive as used by the big Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler began using the engine oil for the torque converter at the beginning of the 1953 model year. And that included, in the U.S., Dodge's 230.6-cid six (adopted by Plymouth with Hy-Drive) and 241.6-cid V8, DeSoto's 250.6-cid six and 276.1-cid V8 and Chrysler's 264.5-cid 6 and 331.1-cid V8.

In Canada, Chrysler of Canada imported the V8 blocks and modified the 264.5-cid six for use in the Canadian DeSoto and Chrysler. As the 228.1-cid block was the same engine as the 264.5-cid engine, with a smaller bore and shorter stroke, the tooling was already in place.

Another little item was the mid-year 1953 Plymouth Belvedere, in hardtop and sedan, introduced to the Canadian market on April 15, 1953. Contrary to what has been written, including Thomas McPherson in his "The Dodge Story", Chrysler of Canada did offer a Dodge equivalent, the Dodge Mayfair. Also, the first imported Plymouth-based Dodge convertible was the 1954 Dodge Mayfair. Chrysler Canada would not start building convertibles until the 1963 model year.

The comments on Pontiac are not quite true, but I have ranted enough.

For a really good book on cars built in Canada from 1930 through 1980, complete with all models, body styles, prices, weights, serial numbers, short historial notes, and for the 1949-66 models, the colours and codes used by Canadian manufacturers, get a copy of my book, published by Amos Press - "Catalog of Canadian Car I.D. Numbers". Amos Press is the publisher of Cars & Parts magazine. (My apologies for the self back patting.)

Bill

Vancouver, BC

Just going through old posts and I came across this.

Thanks, this clears up a number of questions I had.

I have a 1950 Dodge Special Deluxe (Model D36C), it has been in my wife's family since about 1954, I trailered it back to Saskatoon, saskatchewan, Canada last spring and got it running (sort of). I am now spending the winter researching and lining up parts to make it a better driver. I will try to add a photo.

Edited December 16, 2009 by 1950 Special Deluxe

[40phil41]

I can't see any car images in the link provided above. However, here is a photo of my Canadian 1941 Dodge (D20) Kingsway Special. Hope this helps.

Phil

P.S. Yes, the dash is identical to a Plymouth with Dodge badges.

Edited December 16, 2009 by 40phil41

[PatS....]

ARGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, but I have tried again and again to get the Canadian Dodge story ironed and corrected, but the wrong story keeps getting circulated. If I ever track down the person who started this ...........

" and in 1933, Chrysler Canada introduced the Dodge DQ and DP. These were Plymouths with Dodge, front grills, nameplates, and ornamentation; "

WRONG!! The 1933 Dodge DP was the American Dodge Six that Chrysler of Canada also built. The DP had NO Plymouth parts.

The 1933 Dodge DQ was a Dodge DP with simpler trim and ornamentation. When the DP went from a 111¼" wheelbase to a 115" wheelbase, the DQ remained on the 111¼" wheelbase. The DQ had NO Plymouth parts.

How do I know? I have the 1933 Plymouth and Dodge parts books and compared chassis frames, body, hood, grille, glass, engine, etc. and in every area the DQ used DP parts and neither shared any of the above with any 1933 Plymouth.

Although not quoted here, the 1932 Dodge DM was not built in Canada and was assembled at the Plymouth plant in Detroit. It was a Plymouth with a Dodge grille. It was never sold in Canada.

For 1934 Chrysler of Canada introduced the first Dodge to use the Plymouth chassis and body with Dodge fenders, hood and grille - the DT. Chrysler of Canada continued in 1935 with the DV, the same year Chrysler began building Plymouth-based Dodges for export in Detroit. From 1936 through 1941 Chrysler of Canada built two series each year, mirroring Plymouth's annual two series. The export Dodges were built in one series only, the lower-priced one according to the Canadian line-up. Even convertibles were placed in this one export series, which is why no Plymouth-based Dodge convertibles were imported to Canada after Canadian convertible production ended in 1936.

"From 1946-1950, the Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge Kingsway, while the Special Deluxe became the Regent."

Nope. The 1946-50 Plymouth DeLuxe was modified to become the Dodge DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway DeLuxe in parts of the world outside of America and Canada. The Plymouth Special DeLuxe became the Dodge Special DeLuxe in Canada and the Dodge Kingsway Special DeLuxe for export markets.

The Regent name was not used prior to 1951. Plus Chrysler of Canada never used the Kingsway name from 1942 through 1950 in Canada. And the export Dodges for 1949-52 were Kingsway, Kingsway DeLuxe and Kingsway Custom.

The 1949-50 series names for Dodge in Canada again copied the Plymouth - DeLuxe, DeLuxe and Special DeLuxe. The 1951-52 series names of Kingsway, Crusader and Regent are correct for the Canadian market.

"All 1950s 6-cylinder Canadian Chrysler vehicles used the longer Windsor/DeSoto block, with Plymouths and Dodges getting a smaller displacement version (228 cubic inches, or about 3.8 litres)."

Chrysler of Canada opened their own engine plant in 1938, and thus from 1938 all Canadian-built six-cylinder cars and trucks used the larger 25" block. The 218.1-cid engine was used on Canadian-built Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges from 1940 through 1953. When Hy-Drive was introduced in mid-1953, they switched to the 228.1-cid six formerly used by the Dodge Coronet in Canada. By 1956 the only six cylinder used by Plymouth and Dodge in Canada was the 250.6-cid unit.

"The HyDrive transmission was offered on Canadian Plymouths and Plymouth-based Dodges as well, which had to retool a HyDrive-specific version of the 228 block in relatively small numbers."

Actually, the converted engines to use the oil supply for Hy-Drive's torque converter were already in production in Canada and the U.S. The Fluid Torque Drive as used by the big Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler began using the engine oil for the torque converter at the beginning of the 1953 model year. And that included, in the U.S., Dodge's 230.6-cid six (adopted by Plymouth with Hy-Drive) and 241.6-cid V8, DeSoto's 250.6-cid six and 276.1-cid V8 and Chrysler's 264.5-cid 6 and 331.1-cid V8.

In Canada, Chrysler of Canada imported the V8 blocks and modified the 264.5-cid six for use in the Canadian DeSoto and Chrysler. As the 228.1-cid block was the same engine as the 264.5-cid engine, with a smaller bore and shorter stroke, the tooling was already in place.

Another little item was the mid-year 1953 Plymouth Belvedere, in hardtop and sedan, introduced to the Canadian market on April 15, 1953. Contrary to what has been written, including Thomas McPherson in his "The Dodge Story", Chrysler of Canada did offer a Dodge equivalent, the Dodge Mayfair. Also, the first imported Plymouth-based Dodge convertible was the 1954 Dodge Mayfair. Chrysler Canada would not start building convertibles until the 1963 model year.

The comments on Pontiac are not quite true, but I have ranted enough.

For a really good book on cars built in Canada from 1930 through 1980, complete with all models, body styles, prices, weights, serial numbers, short historial notes, and for the 1949-66 models, the colours and codes used by Canadian manufacturers, get a copy of my book, published by Amos Press - "Catalog of Canadian Car I.D. Numbers". Amos Press is the publisher of Cars & Parts magazine. (My apologies for the self back patting.)

Bill

Vancouver, BC

Bill, can you do a bit of a post on the Pontiacs ??? or if you already have done somewhere, a link to that??? I've had a few Canadian Pontiacs up to a 1970 and I had a beautiful 65 Catalina wagon from Texas. Had a bear of a time getting parts for that one...even the taillights were different:eek:

[greg g]

What is the engine umber? Its below the head on the block above generator.

[1950 Special Deluxe]

For a really good book on cars built in Canada from 1930 through 1980, complete with all models, body styles, prices, weights, serial numbers, short historial notes, and for the 1949-66 models, the colours and codes used by Canadian manufacturers, get a copy of "Catalog of Canadian Car I.D. Numbers".

I found a Canadian distributor for this book.

Transport Books

website is

http://www.transportbooks.com/index.html

I have it on order and it is on its way.

My brakes are close to completion, temparatures are above freezing, time to drive.

[B-Watson]

Bill, can you do a bit of a post on the Pontiacs ??? or if you already have done somewhere, a link to that??? I've had a few Canadian Pontiacs up to a 1970 and I had a beautiful 65 Catalina wagon from Texas. Had a bear of a time getting parts for that one...even the taillights were different:eek:

Bit late on this one - but, yes I can do one for Pontiac. Somewhere I have one. I will do some searching and post it.

Bill

Vancouver, BC