1952 Wayfarer

[mchev150]

need a little help, been lookin for plymouth/dodge coupe or a dodge wayfarer for a while and I found a wayfarer (just down the street). It is in primer ready for paint and final assembly, there is no rust or rot, runs well motor is tight, brakes are all redone, interior with the exception of the door panels is in good condition.

The seller is pretty firm at 5k. Question, is this a reasonable price. I figure I am several hundred ahead already not having to go get it or have it transported. I have been online looking at prices and they seem to be all over the place. Will try to post some pictures. thanks for any input.

[FMSPEED49]

I wouldn't let my 49 go for twice that.

[Plymouthy Adams]

condition is everything..if you are not knowledgable on these cars..there are some areas pretty prone to rot and rust..no matter where it lived its life...if it ever had rust, how it was repaired is everything..consider the cost of the paint job if you are not in position to do it yourself..these are not cheap these days no matter where you take it..sounds like the guy has made aheck of a start and yes it will not take long before you have a goodly sum of money in it..have him list what all he has done at what cost..if he farmed it out..cost may be high and not reflective on actual street value.

bottom line is cost to finish..conditon..location location location and if all adds up..the cost....it is the paint that is going to be your high end item to finish...and am sure you will want to consider theinterior and look close at the headliner...

compare to reasonable facsimiles on the net..go from there...

[48mirage]

Here is where I would start to evaluate worth.

http://www.manheimgold.com/car_lo.html

Jim

[greg g]

My guess is that if you found a ford or chevy in comperable condition the price wold likely be higher. And because their prices have gone up it has brought up the prices of the under appreciated marques. People who have dabled with other cars and have gone on to own MOPARS are alway favorably impressed with the engineering and mechanics of these old mopars.

I am partial to wayfarers as I was brought up in one. My father had one till 56.

[builtfercomfort]

"several hundred ahead already not having to go get it or have it transported" - more than that if you get it transported very far. If you could flat-tow it you could do it yourself.

If you like the car, do a compression check on the motor and check the condition of all fluids - but it seems quite reasonable.

[JAYNE COBB]

I picked up my '50 for $4000 in about the same shape you describe.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/Dagon93/car%20stuff/DSCF2042.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/Dagon93/car%20stuff/DSCF2041.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f222/Dagon93/car%20stuff/DSCF2040.jpg

[Norm's Coupe]

As mentioned when buying any old car, part of the price is location, location, location. Yes, just like everything else we buy you will always see it cheaper after you buy it someplace else, but how far away is it? Even if the cheaper car was $1,000 or more less, depending on where it is you could spend that much getting it home.

Another plus to this car being so close to you is, you can take your time looking at it. Also if it's just down the street and the seller knows you're that close he's less likely to tell you something that isn't true. Not only that but by the seller being that close you can always ask questions easily after the sale, if something should come up.

Also keep in mind, coupes of any make are getting fewer and harder to find in good condition today, because the custom and hot rod builders are after those first. For example, my coupe in the same condition I bought it in 1995 is now going for two or three times what I paid for it.

If Jayne's is as nice on the inside as it is on the outside and runs decent, I'd put that one at approximately $6,000 to $7,000 at least and probably more. So, she got a deal at $4,000.

Bottom line is, do you want the car and are you willing to pay between 4 & 5,000. If so, go for it.

[blueskies]

Here is where I would start to evaluate worth.

http://www.manheimgold.com/car_lo.html

Jim

Funny, the manheim gold site lists the value of my '50 Plymouth in show condition at about half of what I've got into it... Maybe that's not so funny...

I paid $1800 for my '50 Plymouth four door, a complete running all original driver. Of course, it's a four door, so it's not worth anything...

here's a before shot of my car-

The cost to take the car you are looking at and "finish" it is very subjective. It's the old line-in-the-sand thing, to be sure. I thought I could finish my car for much less than I have into it, but that line kept moving. I have more into my engine and transmission than Jayne Cobb paid for his whole car... but I would do it again the same way if I had the chance...

Pete

[Norm's Coupe]

Funny, the manheim gold site lists the value of my '50 Plymouth in show condition at about half of what I've got into it... Maybe that's not so funny...

I paid $1800 for my '50 Plymouth four door, a complete running all original driver. Of course, it's a four door, so it's not worth anything...

here's a before shot of my car-

The cost to take the car you are looking at and "finish" it is very subjective. It's the old line-in-the-sand thing, to be sure. I thought I could finish my car for much less than I have into it, but that line kept moving. I have more into my engine and transmission than Jayne Cobb paid for his whole car... but I would do it again the same way if I had the chance...

Pete

Pete,

4 door cars are always listed for less. However, thats only if it's a stock 4 door car. Those price books don't take into consideration an engine and upgrades like you've made. Your car really doesn't fall into the same catagory anymore. Yours is more into the custom or hot rod class with your upgrades. That makes yours worth far more than what those books say for original cars in the same condition. Since you've done most of the work yourself, your car should be worth much more than you actually have into it. If you had all the work done by professionals you'd probably have two or three times more money into the car. So.........that makes your car worth at least double what you have into it and probably more. I'd say your car would be in the 5 digit numbers as it stands today, even though you haven't done that much to the interior. Yours not only looks good, but you can get in your's and drive it cross country as it stands.

[blueskies]

.....that makes your car worth at least double what you have into it and probably more. I'd say your car would be in the 5 digit numbers as it stands today...

I'd like to think so' date=' but I highly doubt it... and for many reasons.

The '50 Plymouth four door car is just about the homeliest car ever designed, it wasn't [i']that[/i] popular when it was new aside from being affordable, even though my car has lots of period hop-up stuff, it is far from a custom or a hot rod, and you can buy them all day long in various states of repair/resto for a fist full of dollars. There's hardly a high end market for these cars, and I don't expect that to change over night.

That said, these are all the reasons I love the car.

In the 8 years I've owned my car, I can't remember seening a '50 sell for more than about $10,000. Unless it was a convertable. And those are ususally in the $18-20k range if they are very nice. Granted, these cars didn't have a full blown resto like my car, but then again, I don't think the average joe looking for an old car would necessarily take this into consideration.

My advice in buying an early 50's Mopar, is to buy one that has had all the work done, as you will be money ahead in the long run. I didn't take that route with my car, because my initial investment was not much, and I wanted a project to work on with my kids. I'm very happy with the result, and the process of putting together this car with my kids was/is priceless.

Pete

[Norm's Coupe]

Pete,

I know what you are saying. However, I've seen cars similar to yours in good shape advertised in Old Cars Weekly and Good Guys for around $9000 to $11,000. Don't know if they sold for that, but that was the asking prices. So I wouldn't cut it short on your car. Lets face it people pay a quarter of that price just to get an overdrive unit. Add the engine and body work to that and you're right up there. You probably couldn't sell it fast for that kind of money but if you held out you probably could, if you wanted to sell it.

That said. I'm like you, I bought the car to have fun fixing it and driving it, not any possible money gains. But.........along with the fixing it does increase the price of the car no matter who does it, along as its done right or close to right.

[mchev150]

Thanks, for all the comments, I'm going back on saturday, with a friend who has a critical .eye to go over it again. Tim what are the rust areas of concern? I don' want to miss anything. Also going to inventory all the parts. The wayfarer is 15 miles from my house so getting it home is no big deal. I figure I'm saving 1,500 dollars if I had to travel any distance to inspect and then transport.

As a little background, I have owned a 55 chevy project for about 12 years, but with buying homes and three college educations it has always been put on the back burner. Even if I dropped everything and just worked on the chevy, it would be a good 3 years before it was on the road and I would be spending close to 5k just on sheet metal where as I could be cruising in the wayfarer this summer and work on it as I go.

Thanks for all the comments and input. I will let you know how I make out Saturday.

Mike

[rearview]

Where about is the Wayfarer located? I'm not asking to jump your sale (I already have my own 52) but I sold my "parts car" to a guy who was going to try and fix / resell.... good luck!!

There was a 51 or 52 that was for sale in he Chicago area a month or so ago that was all done and had trouble getting $6500 for a nice clean car. Although mine is nicer of course.....

EDIT: Nevermind... I did some quick looking and see you're in the NE area...

[Brendan D25]

Hello mchev150, welcome to the forum. The biggest thing to look out for rust wise are the inner rocker panels and the ends of the body support crossmembers. But they can be fixed, as many of us on here had to do. It sounds to me like it would be a fair price from your description and you are going about it the right way by getting someone else to look at it, two heads are better than one. Cheers and Good Luck, Brendan.

[Young Ed]

Also check the quarters at the bottom next to the trunk opening. The trunk sill also can be an issue.

[rearview]

On the Wayfarers check below the taillights. The only rust on mine is there.

[greg g]

Check out the spare tire well as it will be a good indication of the condition of the rest of the car. The drivers and passengers floor under the corners of the windshield. these areas were usually victims of leaks caused by water coming in detriorated windshield gaskets. check the fenders around the whell opening lips. And run you hand along the bottom of the doors, it they are good solid metal chances are the rest of the doors are good also.

OK now lets discuss Dodges other indiosyncratic item, the fluid drive transmission. Usually unless it says gyromatic on the dash board and or rear bumper, it will have a standard three speed transmission (well not exactly standard but more on that later) with a fluid drive unit between the engine and the clutch.

These were MOPARS atempt at introducing shiftless driving without going to a fully automatic trans like GM was introducing. The fluid drive deal is similar to a torque converter, but offers no torque multiplication it is simply a driven impellor which drives a stator through a fluid medium to which a standard dry clutch and pressureplate are mounted.

This allows the car to be placed in gear and then driven with the gas and brake only till reverse needs to be selected. Or you can drive it just like a standard. But you can start drive and stop the car with it in thrid gear without using the clutch pedal if you choose. These are really great cars to teach some one how to drive a standard as they will not stall and buck like a garden variety standard. The negative part of this is that with the engine shut off there is no static compression braking as there is no mechanical connection between the transmission and the engine. So, the parking brake becomes a big deal when parking on an incline. It must work or you need to chock the wheels to keep your car from rolling away.

Now to the transmission. While it shifts in the standsrd "H" pattern, it is a selector type transmission with one of the linckage levers telling the trans what gear set to engage. (so finding an floor shifter is nearly impossible)

They are however bullet proof transmissions with a nearly non exisant failure rate. The transmission also carries the aformentioned parking brake. It is an externially contracting band which clamps down on a drum attached to the output shaft. Easy to fix and effective when properly adjusted.

If you are used to shifting a Ford or Chevy three on the tree, you might notice a slight but significant difference when shifting the Dodge, When you pull the lever toward you and down for first gear and release it, it will fall back toward the dashboard, effectively going through the neutral gate. So engaging second can be done by pshing the lever straight up while applying a bit of pressure toward the dash. No the lift, find neutral, push toward the dash and lift again action common to the lessor brands.

You will also find a fully independant, unequal length "A" arm front suspension with sway bar mounted to fully boxed front frame rails.

We'll get into the brakes after you make your purchase.

Good hunting.

[Young Ed]

The spare well is not always an indication. It is certainly prone to rust but my 51 has a perfect one and holes on each side of the trunk you could put a fist through. Check other areas as mentioned.

[wayfarer]

I have a 49 sedan and 2- '50 Wayfarers. The 49 has rust in all of the usual locations, but both of the 50's were pretty clean to start, minimal rust to repair. My surprise was to find that the 49 and one of the 50's had some major cracks in the frame at the inside portion of the coil spring enclosure.....if the frame has never been cleaned then it might be difficult to see cracks, if they exist, through the road grime. FWIW.

[mchev150]

Went back Saturday with my friend who runs a body shop, he found the car to be in better shape than I had described. Seemed like all the stars were aligned so I bought it. Since I have not owned 50's dodge before I have lots of questions I will be asking on the forum. The plan is to finish the paint prep and shoot some color on it (not sure what yet, did not think I would need to make that decision so soon in anew project). Next I want to put it back together and baseline what I have. Will be looking for input on what projects to tackle first to improve reliability and longevity. Then look at upgrades to brakes, and the addition of some speed parts. Long term the T-5 swaps I have been reading about looks like the way to go.

A couple of early issues, I will need to replace the gas tank, any suggestions on who to go to, also the winshield divider is pitted as well as the strip on the center of the hood. Are these pieces difficult to find?

Again thanks for the help.

[Young Ed]

Try gas tank renu for the tank if it isn't completely gone.