Old cars and car seats (OT sort of)

[Jims50chrysler]

I was sooo glad when the Kids were big enough to get rid of the car seats out of my cars, I had to manufacture mounts in my '46 Ford for my youngest boys and it looks like my Chrysler is going to get a set as well.

My daughter just had a Baby boy this morning (her second) so I guess I had better work the mounts into the plan. (better start flaming up a car seat as well)

Jim

[windsor8]

Congrats Grandpa!

[Dennis Hemingway]

Congrats, I put seat belts in all of our old cars so our grandkids could ride with us.

Dennis

[BobT-47P15]

Jim, you just thought you were thru with the car seats, eh????

Now the grandkids. Congratulations on the new grandson.

[Jims50chrysler]

Thanks Guys

Not that car seats were a big problem back in the day but for some reason I think I won't mind having to use them again

Besides it's not everyday that I will have to use them anyway.

Jim

[Norm's Coupe]

Jim's post brings up an interesting question.

The law here says if the car did not come with seat belts, they are not required in that car. The law also says any child too old to fit in a car seat must wear seat belts and under a certain age must be in a car seat. Car seats that are sold today require a seat belt to hold them in.

So.........What would happen if you had a child in the car not fastened by a seat belt or in a car seat if a cop stops you? How could he give you a ticket for the child not being in a car seat or not wearing a seat belt, since the car isn't required to have seat belts?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your child shouldn't be wearing a belt or in a car seat. I'm just questioning the logic of the laws concerned.

For the record, even back in the 60's my kids were always in a car seat. I also required them to ride in the back seat with the belt on, even though I don't wear them. It's not that I believed the seat belt would save them that much, but it kept them quieter while riding in the car. I always believed in car seats because a kid standing up in the seat is an accident waiting to happen.

[Captain Neon]

First, let me say that I am not a lawyer so I am not liable for any one getting into trouble after reading this post. Always consult a lawyer before getting into a legal grey area.

That being stated, I would suspect that since the car is not required to have seat belts then one would not be required to have a child belted or in a car seat in our old iron. Depending on how much of a doorknob a cop is, he may issue you a ticket insisting that the law offers no exceptions. A good DA may even argue to a judge that car seats were/are available that do not require the use of a seatbelt.

While I do not have children, I would love to take young'uns (esp. our nieces and nephews) for rides in my P15. My father has no problems w/ local law enforcement in Minnesota when taking children for rides in his cars without seat belts, but I would probably opt to install the seat belts that I bought a few years ago before I let a child ride in my P15. I've recently gotten myself on the radar w/ local law enforcement for publicly criticising a local auto repair shop cozy with local law enforcement for the shop's shady and under-handed dealing.

[62rebelP23]

i don't think of adding seatbelts as anachronistic modification. if the manufacturers had the concept firmly in mind early on, they'd have always had them as well as seafety glass. i had a fierce online debate with my British friends regarding adding belts to classics; they were strongly against modifying old cars in spite of safety. their argument wrong or right was that those specific vehicles aren't driven often enough and are in the care of persons who do not drive recklessly. so...OK.... it's not the driver of the classic that is gonna get you killed. add those seat belts! tuck 'em under the seat when you're at the show.

[Captain Neon]

Even the AACA and the POC don't deduct points for seat belts. I don't like'em myself, and my chiropractor insists that at speeds < 30 mph. (city driving) that they do more harm than good in an accident. However, for the peace of mind of my sisters-in-law, I intend to install seat belts when I re-do the upholstery. They won't let their kids ride in the car until the seat belts are installed.

[Mr. Belvedere]

If you are just installing safety belts to take the kids and do not plan on using them yourself, you could possibly figure out some way to install the "latch system" on your vintage iron. Most cars built in the last ten years or so have this system. Most if not all car seats now are made for this system and are easier to use than the older set-ups. They are basically u-bolts that are barely visible where the backrest and seat come togather. Modern car seats have clips that snap on to these u-bolts then you just sinch them down tight against the seat like you would sinch down a standard lap belt. Most car seats have or need three anchor points two on the bottom and one on the top around head rest area so maybe you could install the upper one somewhere on the package shelf if you have some good solid metal underneath it. Anyway, just a less visible option for anyone not wanting to spoil the original look but still take the kiddies on a cruise.

[blueskies]

The first thing that happens to an old car in a crash: The doors pop open and everything inside is ejected into the path of the car. And if you aren't thrown through one of the doors, you probably will make your way out through the windshield, or rear window.

I'm an ardent supporter of seatbelts, especially in old cars. Shoulder belts are very easy to add to the cars, both front and rear.

My cargo is too precious to take any chances.

Pete

[Norm's Coupe]

I don't have any small kids in my family. Youngest is my grand daughter and she's 16 years old now. Now that I mention it, she's the only one. Since she lives 60 miles away she's hardly ever around anyway. I did buy a set of shoulder & lap retractable belts to match my new interior when I bought my interior because the wife said she wouldn't ride in the coupe without belts. However, she rode in it anyway so never bothered to put the belts in. Still sealed in the package they came in up in the cabinet. Since I don't like to wear belts and don't, I figured why bother putting them in. This way I can't get a ticket for not using them in the coupe. Those belts have doubled in price since I bought them. I'm one who believes when it's your time to go, you'll go and no seat belt is going to stop it. If it does, you'll slip on a piece of paper and go anyway.

[blueskies]

Norm-

We've had this discussion many times before... I'm of the camp that it doesn't matter how old you are, a seat belt is the difference between walking away and carried out in a bag.

Course, I can't imagine getting impaled by the non-collapsable steering wheel in your car between your garage door and the end of your driveway either :D:D.

Pete

[p24-1953]

okay slight change of topic but it has been listed here that the doors would pop open first so if we all wanted to be safe shouldnt we replace the door latches? any one use the bear claw latches?

[Norm's Coupe]

okay slight change of topic but it has been listed here that the doors would pop open first so if we all wanted to be safe shouldnt we replace the door latches? any one use the bear claw latches?

Very good point. Back in the 50's you'd hear about people falling out of 40's and early 50's cars because the door popped open all the time. To boot, the car wasn't in an accident either, the doors would just fly open while going around a curve. It even happened to my cousin once. Luckily he wasn't hurt except a few scratches. That's one reason I never liked 4 door cars, especially after my kids were born. No door to pop open and they can't fall out, accident or no accident.

Pete, if you are in a bad front end collision, that seat belt won't keep that steering column from going through you, however, the seat belt will keep you in direct line for the steering column to impale you. So, it works both ways doesn't it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have upgraded the 41 Business Coupe to modern latches..I used the ones from a Dodge Dynasty...worked well for me..the change however was for simplicity in remote entry and electric door locks than accidental door opening though...this thread is still available for viewing I think...

http://www430.pair.com/p15d24/mopar_forum/showthread.php?t=45&highlight=dynasty+latches

[p24-1953]

Is There A Replacement Latch That Will Work With The Stock Outside/inside Handles?

[Norm's Coupe]

I really don't think that the doors would fly open if the latch is properly adjusted. Remember back in the 40's & 50's these were being used every day. People didn't maintain them like we do as hobby cars. Those doors got open and shut a lot, wearing out and loosening the latches a lot faster than we will ever do today.

I know when I bought my coupe the latches were mis adjusted and the doors were a little harder to latch. By simply adjusting the latch on the door post, the doors latch just as good as a new car now, and they open easier when you use the handle.

That said, unless you want to do something like Tim did/or doing with electric locks, you probably don't need to change latches. Just fix them so they operate properly.

[Young Ed]

The door on my old truck popped open once. Turned out to be because of too much body flex. Which was caused by me not knowing how the cab was supposed to be fastened to the frame and having it too loose. I was going 45 on a freeway on ramp at the time it opened. scary!

[Norm's Coupe]

The door on my old truck popped open once. Turned out to be because of too much body flex. Which was caused by me not knowing how the cab was supposed to be fastened to the frame and having it too loose. I was going 45 on a freeway on ramp at the time it opened. scary!

Ed, that's exactly what I was talking about. As you stated, it wasn't due to a bad latch, it was due to improper alignment, due to the way the cab was mounted. If everything is done right, I think the latches are ok.

That said, it's not a good idea to lean on a door when riding in a car or truck. Any latch can come open if something goes wrong with it. Even in a new car.

[Young Ed]

I wasn't leaning on mine but thankfully had my elbow out the window and was able to kinda pull the door shut with it. All part of the fun of buying automotive jigsaw. The cab was pretty much just sitting on the frame when I bought it. So I had to figure all this stuff out.

[Norm's Coupe]

Ed,

You aren't the only one who has that problem. As I've mentioned before, my brother in law has a 36 Ford 3 Window Coupe and a 38 Ford Club coupe. He restored the 36 from the ground up and it's in very good condition. However, he bought the 38 as a driver and only keeps it looking half way decent and running good. Doesn't spend much time on it. When I ride in his 38 I stay off the doors. Those things rattle and you can actually see the door moving as you ride down the street. It's never flew open that I know of, but..........I don't want to be the one to find out if it will either.

[Young Ed]

That sounds a little scary. Mine are nice and solid feeling now. You can pull on them so hard the truck is rocking back and forth and they stay shut.

[blueskies]

Pete' date=' if you are in a bad front end collision, that seat belt won't keep that steering column from going through you, however, the seat belt will keep you in direct line for the steering column to impale you. So, it works both ways doesn't it.[/quote']

I don't think so... unless the crash is so severe that the front end of the car is crushed to the point that the frame is pushed several feet toward the firewall, which is far more unlikely than a typical 30 mph front end collision.

The force sustained by a driver in a 30mph crash without a seatbelt is about 12 tons, or 24,000 pounds. That is about 6 times the force sustained by a driver with a non-stretching seatbelt. And a 30 mph crash is a relatively slow speed crash. The numbers go up exponentially with speed.

There's no way I would drive my car without a shoulder seatbelt, as the steering wheel is a fixed shaft that will not give way in a collision. This means that in a 30mph collision, without a shoulder belt, your body will stike the wheel with a 24,000 pound whollup, and there is no way you are going to survive. The wheel will collapse, and the shaft will run right through your chest cavity.

With a seatbelt, you will walk away with a few bruises, and wonder where you are going to find a new grill and fenders for your ride.

It's easy to say that when it's your time to go, it's your time. But I'd bet your grandkids would want you to increase your odds...

I really don't think that the doors would fly open if the latch is properly adjusted.... Just fix them so they operate properly.

I don't think the doors flying open in a crash has anything to do with a properly adjusted latch. It has everything to do with the body and jambs of the car deforming enough so that the latch sperates from the jamb, becoming unlatched. These cars weren't designed to have crumple zones, and the bodies will not stay in shape in a serious collision. The design of the latches does not securely and mechanically fasten the door to the jamb like modern latches do, they simply keep the door shut for normal driving. Then the jamb deforms, there is nothing to keep the latch attached to the jamb, and the door just swings open.

Pete

[1just4don]

I doubt I EVER owned a car or pickup that the latches worked right its whole life,,,maybe a result of owning them TOO long

Even the Dodge pickup I daily drive the door doesnt close and these days is darn cold cause the heater doesnt work on high,,,just a mere trickle on lowest setting AND doors never catch on the closed position. THOSE cabs were always a junky piece of tin. I think I need new hinges or in old days could replace hinge pins and bushings,,dont know about these,,,they didnt account for this while designing them!!

On my OLD Dodges and plymouths we drove while high schooling(50 and 51 plymouths and dodges),,,they popped open all the time,on washboard roads etc. AND when we were rabbit hunting in rough native pastures at 25-30 mph. Nobody ever got hurt or even fell out,,but dont know WHY!! One time we were rabbit hunting and leaning out the window to the waist with spotlight in one hand, 12 gauge shotgun in the other. Door popped open while 'chasin' a jack rabbit across the grass. Here I was swinging out in the wind,hollering STOP let me back in,,,answer was NO,,,not till we get this one. I shot the 12 gauge with my magnums reloaded myself and the force of THAT blew me back into the car. It was a pump and it was ALMOST an automatic,,the recoil would throw it wide open and ALMOST closed!!The last 1/2 inch was up to me!!

I quit driving a 66 Dodge pickup once cause couldnt get in the darn thing,the doors wouldnt stay closed,and couldnt get OUT the doors when you wanted to,,,went to the dealer to BUY new door parts so it WOULD work,,,said sorry dont sell THAT old of stuff!!

BIGGEST thing is NOT to use greasy stuff in the hinges OR the latch that grit gets on and wears faster!! Dry silicone or graphite only!! Biggest pain is have to squirt them daily or weekly or its all gone!!