R10 Overdrive Diagnosis and Operation

[Jonathan]

Good morning, 

 

I have just installed a Borg Warner R10 overdrive and have the car jacked up on stands. I have wired the transmission myself and need some direction on the following issues:

 

1) I push the overdrive cable in on the dash to the overdrive "on" position accelerate and hear the pin in the solenoid engage, let off the gas pedal momentarily, but can never seem to have the transmission go into overdrive. I believe I also hear the overdrive solenoid pin disengage when my speed decreases sufficiently. 

 

2) My understanding is the kickdown switch is to interrupt the ignition system. I manually push and hold down the kickdown switch when the car is idling and the car continues idling. Am I correct in understanding holding the kickdown switch is to interrupt the ignition system and have the engine cease? 

 

Thanks.

[FarmerJon]

My OD didn't want to engage when I first wired it. Turned out to be a bad interrupter switch AND an internally shorted kick down switch. 

The interupter switch can be bypassed,  or is available NOS on ebay (PN 1370462, or NS-60) 

The Kickdown switch I didnt have a good way to mount anyway, so I used a toggle switch in-cabin instead. 

 

The factory OD manual has some good trouble shooting tips, I will dig it out and take some pictures, but I have the text of part of it.

 

Service Manual reads:

"If both the relay and solinoid click when making the above tests, continue checking the control circuit as follows: connect a jumper wire between the lead terminal on top of the governor and a good ground. If then relay clicks, it indicates that the control circuit is ok from the relay to the governor. 

The above would indicate that the governor points were not closing, or not making a good contact when they closed. The best way to test the action of the governor is by a road test.

To test the governor, leave the jumper wire connected and run the other end into the car, where it can be held as the car is being driven.  

Road test car up through the OD cut in speed and then attempt to make the shift. If the OD won't shift, ground end of jumper wire. If the transmission now shifts, the governor is not operating to complete the circuit"

 

I hope that helps. The OD really is a great improvement, so it will be worth all the trouble in the end.

[Jonathan]

Thank you very much. I will take a look further into this and confirm that it is what you suggest. Appreciate your detailed response!

[FarmerJon]

Here is the full text, let me know if the resolution isnt good enough to read.

[kencombs]

Regarding the ignition interrupter function, it is important to note that this grounds the ignition for a very short period.   And probably won't be noticeable with the test you are using as it lasts for milliseconds while the solenoid plunger is moving.

[Booger]

If youre lucky enough to own an R10 BW OD the Randy Rundle manual is a must

[Jonathan]

13 hours ago, FarmerJon said:

Here is the full text, let me know if the resolution isnt good enough to read.

I can read this, thank you!

[Jonathan]

13 hours ago, kencombs said:

Regarding the ignition interrupter function, it is important to note that this grounds the ignition for a very short period.   And probably won't be noticeable with the test you are using as it lasts for milliseconds while the solenoid plunger is moving.

Ok, are you saying that if the engine is idling and I hold the kickdown switch in the "kickdown" position, that it will not kill the engine? I assumed that holding it down would essentially interrupt the ignition system and that is why you needed to kick it down, i.e., the motion of a split-second kickdown and let-up on the gas pedal was what was causing the ignition to be grounded. Can you confirm? 

[Jonathan]

7 hours ago, Booger said:

If you're lucky enough to own an R10 BW OD the Randy Rundle manual is a must

Where would I source one of these? Is it in the downloads section?

Edited January 31 by Jonathan

[Loren]

I just re-engineered my kick down switch and when I tested it, I tested the adjustment of the switch not the entire circuit.

I used an ohm meter to tell me when one set of contacts broke and the other made a connection.

The whole idea of ignition interrupter is to take pressure off the drive train so the solenoid can act and when it does the ignition is restored.

In operation you should not feel a thing.

[Saskwatch]

9 hours ago, Jonathan said:

 

16 hours ago, Booger said:

If you're lucky enough to own an R10 BW OD the Randy Rundle manual is a must

Where would I source one of these? Is it in the downloads section?

 

www.fifthaveinternetgarage.com

[sjaakslinger]

Are you testing it on jacks? If you can test drive it:

- push in the OD handle with the car standing still. I do that idling in neutral.

- accelerate to a little over 30mph. I do that in 2nd gear.

- at around 30 mph, take your foot off the gas pedal and wait till you feel/hear a shift (mine often needs a speed a little over 30 mph)

- accelerate again and check if it engaged a lower gear

 

If it did, you can try flooring the gas pedal to see if the kickdown works. It should go out of Overdrive when the switch is engaged and accelerate in 'normal' gear untill you release the gas pedal a bit again.

 

Took me some time to figure out. Good luck.

 

Dennis

[kencombs]

15 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Ok, are you saying that if the engine is idling and I hold the kickdown switch in the "kickdown" position, that it will not kill the engine? I assumed that holding it down would essentially interrupt the ignition system and that is why you needed to kick it down, i.e., the motion of a split-second kickdown and let-up on the gas pedal was what was causing the ignition to be grounded. Can you confirm? 

Here is the best pic I could find that shows how the kickdown, solenoid, governor and relay all work together to only interrupt the ignition only while shifting.

Edited January 31 by kencombs

[Booger]

16 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Where would I source one of these? Is it in the downloads section?

You should be able to find Randy Rundle booklet on Ebay

[Dodgeb4ya]

Get the car off the stands and drive it before thinking something is wrong because it won't go into OD with the handle pushed in.

It's hard sometimes to get  into OD on jack stands as you have to quickly rev the engine in 3rd and let off really quick to attempt a OD engagement. Might or might not go into OD.

The control pawl won't engage into the sun gear easily when up on the stands.

Get the car out on the road for a proper trans test.

[Booger]

in ancient times I scored an R10 ($75) hoisted it on me shoulder and bolted it up to a P18 SD and used a choke cable to engaged OD. no electronics. Was it a dream?

70 mph and barely breathing

Edited yesterday at 12:49 AM by Booger
spel

[Saskwatch]

3 hours ago, Booger said:

ancient times I scored an R10 ($75) hoisted it on me shoulder and bolted it up to a P18 SD and used a choke cable to engaged OD. no electronics. Was it a dream?

70 mph and barely breathing

Edited 3 hours ago by Booger
spel

    Kind Sir - I have been trying to gather as much information as possible on the R10 OD transmission, reading & rereading trying to understand how it works and the proper electrical connections…… Now you drop this ?? You can actually get it working with no electronics! 🤷🏼‍♂️

  Please 🙏 don’t leave me hanging ‘ 

  How did you do this ???    (-;

[sjaakslinger]

Do you have all the wiring for the overdrive? Governor, solenoid, kickdown switch, relais on the firewall with circuit breaker?

[Booger]

10 hours ago, Saskwatch said:

    Kind Sir - I have been trying to gather as much information as possible on the R10 OD transmission, reading & rereading trying to understand how it works and the proper electrical connections…… Now you drop this ?? You can actually get it working with no electronics! 🤷🏼‍♂️

  Please 🙏 don’t leave me hanging ‘ 

  How did you do this ???    (-;

soo long ago, brother. not a mechanic just a wrencher