Questions on 54 C-1 truck project

[ggdad1951]

Ah, you have nicer DMV then MN....

[888]

On 2/20/2025 at 6:17 AM, ggdad1951 said:

Ah, you have nicer DMV then MN....

Yes, they can be pretty tolerant in some ways, seem to be better than a lot of other states.  

 

I got it home.  AAA took 2 hours to arrive last night in 15 degree temps only to refuse to move the truck because it did not have valid plates attached.  I had proof of insurance and the signed bill of sale (title is in process) but the plates made it a non starter.  Kind of odd because I've had AAA for 15 years and all I ask them to do is move projects for me. 

Anyway, this morning I called someone else local who has moved things for AAA when I called and had them do the job.  Wasn't cheap, but I wanted it home. 

It's the first time I've really been able to see it from any distance because it was so buried in the school basement and I'm still delighted with it.  More of the paint is coming off in various places than I thought but it's all metal and all dead straight that I can see and find.

In addition, it looks like all of the metal brake lines on the rear axle have been replaced, haven't dug into it too much more since it's still 20 degrees outside. 

I have a set of the Dave Graham and Detroit Iron manuals on the way so I can start checking things out.  

(I added a photo of the school building that was hiding all of these cars, just for fun).

[Los_Control]

I have to admit, the truck looks better out in the wild and not stuck in a corner. Good looking truck.

 

Our town built new schools and know a lady who bought the High school .... She is a special lady.

She is in her 70's and runs the local laundromat and includes drop off washing and ironing.

men drop their clothes off and pick them up later .... 75 years old she has to stay busy.

She owns several cheap run down rental houses in town. The high school she converted the classrooms into studio apartments. .... She and her husband owned a truck stop and cafe for decades ... He died and she sold out.

At 75 she should slow down, the 2 days a week she closes the laundromat, is tied up with her rentals.

Takes a special breed to buy a school.

[JBNeal]

Looks like a good start for a fix-r-up project, previous restoration for sure seeing that doohickey between the headlight and turn signal light...IMO the older hood ornament seems redundant when the factory medallion is right there, I mean how many ram heads does a Dodge truck need up front, amiright...there's a few other details that need attention that the purist in me wants to blurt out SLOPPY about the previous resto, but hey that's giving you the opportunity to make that buggy your own now 🏆

[888]

17 hours ago, Los_Control said:

I have to admit, the truck looks better out in the wild and not stuck in a corner. Good looking truck.

 

Our town built new schools and know a lady who bought the High school .... She is a special lady.

She is in her 70's and runs the local laundromat and includes drop off washing and ironing.

men drop their clothes off and pick them up later .... 75 years old she has to stay busy.

She owns several cheap run down rental houses in town. The high school she converted the classrooms into studio apartments. .... She and her husband owned a truck stop and cafe for decades ... He died and she sold out.

At 75 she should slow down, the 2 days a week she closes the laundromat, is tied up with her rentals.

Takes a special breed to buy a school.

Thanks.  I thought it looked pretty good too.  The paint may actually clean up with some clay and wax but not sure what I am going to do.  Just want to get it running once the weather changes a bit up here.  I bought a battery yesterday. 

I had a friend that bought a similar school back in the day, think it set him back $45k, which was still less than most houses at the time.  Single guy, lived in a small part of it and used the kitchen, used to throw parties now and again.  The maintenance and costs for HVAC made him get rid of it in maybe 5 years. 

I believe this guy just subscribes to the theory that they aren't making land any more so he picks things up cheap when available.  He bought the old bank downtown too because it was originally listed for $700k and he got it for $150k.  Wasn't clear what he was going to do with it.  The pharmacy with the nicer stuff will eventually become a pizza parlor so I believe he develops most things.  The school was cheap storage for the cars and supplies for his rental houses in the area...there was a dozen or so washers and dryers, and doors and windows in there too.  

[888]

15 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Looks like a good start for a fix-r-up project, previous restoration for sure seeing that doohickey between the headlight and turn signal light...IMO the older hood ornament seems redundant when the factory medallion is right there, I mean how many ram heads does a Dodge truck need up front, amiright...there's a few other details that need attention that the purist in me wants to blurt out SLOPPY about the previous resto, but hey that's giving you the opportunity to make that buggy your own now 🏆

Thanks.  I'm not sure I would even call it a restoration, I think it's more like someone wanted to update a good set of sheet metal to their own taste for daily driver use in good weather and that's probably the way I'm looking at it, too.  

 

It's probably not purist but I'd like to paint the front grill bars white to create some sort of contrast up there.  

 

I agree about the hood ornament and I'm not clear what those doohickeys are but I look at sheet metal first and this one is ridiculously good for the salt belt.  In addition, the bed sides, front panel, and tailgate look new, it's the taller bed (which is what I wanted), and it has all of the wood bed rails and hardware in good condition.  Given the low miles, I think it must have sat somewhere for quite a while and was really never used as a truck. 

 

My son and I had to move it around (parallel park type stuff) to tuck it into the garage and it steers very well with little to no play so that's good. 

 

Long term, I'd like to find a replacement panel between the hoods to remove the hood ornament and do some other cosmetic things but for now, I'd just like to get it running and go from there. 

 

I do have a question....I asked much earlier about the wheels that are used on these trucks and I recall the bolt pattern is pretty common.  The spare in the bed is clearly a later version wheel with spots where a later hub cap would mount to the wheel but at least one of the wheels has five spring clips around the bolt holes and the other I can see so far has holes for some clips.  I'm guessing those clips are for the original hub caps?   My old VW's were set up like that, clips riveted to the wheel. 

 

Thanks

[bkahler]

If I remember correctly DCM Classics sells the correct clips for hub caps, so if you have or find hub caps you could possibly use them on your wheels.

[888]

I should have probably checked this earlier but I have now determined that the engine serial number matches the VIN plate on the firewall so it should be the original engine. 

[JBNeal]

Those spring clips for the hubcaps get boogered up or break along the way.  I had a few that were needing to be replaced but I could not find a source back in '99 so when I found a dinged up wheel to use as a spare, I figured my spare didn't need a hubcap so I removed the rivets to reinstall the good clips on the other wheels.  A local hardware store had the rivets, and I fashioned a tool to set them before I cleaned them wheels up for paint.

 

additional information - restoration product durability

[888]

3 hours ago, JBNeal said:

Those spring clips for the hubcaps get boogered up or break along the way.  I had a few that were needing to be replaced but I could not find a source back in '99 so when I found a dinged up wheel to use as a spare, I figured my spare didn't need a hubcap so I removed the rivets to reinstall the good clips on the other wheels.  A local hardware store had the rivets, and I fashioned a tool to set them before I cleaned them wheels up for paint.

 

additional information - restoration product durability

 

Thanks for the link, good information there. 

 

The VW clips took a special anvil tool that was NLA and a lot of people used standard pop rivets but it was hard to get them tight and a lot of people lost hubcaps.  I ended up using flat head screws (maybe 6-32?) that stayed below the surface of the wheel so as not to interfere on the brake drums and self locking nuts and that worked out pretty well. 

 

If the hub caps turn out to be hard to find, I may just store the original wheels and get some more recent versions that will accept a later friction mounted hubcap. 

[888]

Here comes the first of what I suspect will be a number of questions, hopefully not too many, and not too silly.

 

I see on the Flathead Identification link on JB Neal's signature that there can be 218 or 230 CI engines with code T334 installed on a 1954 C-1-B truck. 

 

 

Rock Auto has both shown as options as well (along with a 227 CI). 

 

What I haven't been able to find is how to tell which one I have.  Can we get there via HP ratings?  

 

The dataplate and engine display T3342724 so it is the correct code and a T truck engine, the plate shows 87 net HP @ 3,200 RPM and 105 gross HP @ 3,600 RPM.  Does this provide a clue? 

 

Thanks!

[Young Ed]

7 minutes ago, 888 said:

Here comes the first of what I suspect will be a number of questions, hopefully not too many, and not too silly.

 

I see on the Flathead Identification link on JB Neal's signature that there can be 218 or 230 CI engines with code T334 installed on a 1954 C-1-B truck. 

 

 

Rock Auto has both shown as options as well (along with a 227 CI). 

 

What I haven't been able to find is how to tell which one I have.  Can we get there via HP ratings?  

 

The dataplate and engine display T3342724 so it is the correct code and a T truck engine, the plate shows 87 net HP @ 3,200 RPM and 105 gross HP @ 3,600 RPM.  Does this provide a clue? 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Not sure if that data plate tells it for sure but I would guess 87 HP means 218. To be sure pull the plus over the #6 cylinder and use a stiff piece of wire to measure the stroke. 

[Los_Control]

The Motors manual I have only shows cars and says the 230 has 110 HP.

I think my 218 is rated at 90hp

 

A 218 and 230 share the same block, the 230 is a stroked 218 ... the crank and rods are different lengths.

So measuring the stroke is a sure way to find out what you have like @Young Ed says above.

I would have to look up the difference in strokes but is easy to find.

[ggdad1951]

DANG!  That is one good looking sold truck in the light of the sun!   I don't think you'll have any regrets!

[Los_Control]

On 2/23/2025 at 7:12 AM, 888 said:

Long term, I'd like to find a replacement panel between the hoods to remove the hood ornament and do some other cosmetic things but for now, I'd just like to get it running and go from there. 

 

I do have a question....I asked much earlier about the wheels that are used on these trucks and I recall the bolt pattern is pretty common.  The spare in the bed is clearly a later version wheel with spots where a later hub cap would mount to the wheel but at least one of the wheels has five spring clips around the bolt holes and the other I can see so far has holes for some clips.  I'm guessing those clips are for the original hub caps?   My old VW's were set up like that, clips riveted to the wheel. 

The wheels should be 5 on 4.5" if it is a 1/2 ton. I prefer the newer style wheels myself.

Mine are 5.5" wide so they accept a 235 75R 15 tire pretty good.

These older factory wheels are still around and can be found .... without really searching I have found a few and am able to come up with 4 that look like a matched set .... what I mean is, the 2 on this side are Ford wheels and the 2 on the other side are Mopar wheels .... they look the same and use the same sized hubcap.

 

I have seen some wheels on Ebay and they want $80 each and they do not know how to measure and check what size hubcap they use .... A local guy1.5 hours away wants to part out a old 60's Dodge truck .... He decides to sell wheels at $75 ... cheaper then ebay ... expects me to jack up the truck and remove them, then pay for disposal of the tires plus my gas to drive 3 hours round trip .... cheaper to just buy from ebay and pay shipping.

Then I found a guy on FB that sold me 2 bare wheels for $20 each and delivered them to my house ... they are out there you just have to look.

Then Wheelsmith sells a brand new powder coated reproduction for maybe $110? ... reasonable.

 

Then Hubcap Mikes sells these caps, I just got them this morning and they are $30 each + shipping.

Happy with the quality, they are not really thin and flimsy they are stout.

For a daily driver, I think they are fine .... hubcaps can fall off, especially older ones with a loose clip. They are expensive and difficult to find ... If I lose one ... I'm out $30 and 10 minutes to get on line and order another ... not a huge deal.

 

Also I'm biased to this style of wheel. When I was 25 years old in the 80's and could find cheap used Cragars or any classic custom wheels ... I liked this style best .... stock black wheel, baby moons and beauty rings.

With the rings installed, they will be all chrome with a strip of black wheel showing.

And it is just what I like and want ... I have had the same wheels on several cars in the past.

For a truck some may like just the hubcap and no rings.

 

 

 

[888]

It is a half ton so that wheel should fit.  

 

I also like the look of dog dish hubcaps going back to when I had Chevy flat cap rally wheels on a 62 Impala.  You could put those flat caps on a Yugo and I'd probably be interested in it. 

 

I had a 82 D100 shortbed with the "cop style" Mopar hubcaps with the small holes in them and I liked that look pretty well.

 

Since this will never be a purist grade restoration I will probably just go with some newer wheels that accept the later friction attached caps and save the originals.  As you mentioned, if I lose a cap, it won't be a big deal.

 

The tires that are on there have a lot of tread, in fact they look new and were manufactured in 2014 so they aren't terribly old.  I believe they were stored inside most of the time.  They hold air and roll well so I am hoping to use them for a while with whatever wheels I end up with.  I have a buddy who will mount "old" tires for me when needed.

[Los_Control]

23 minutes ago, 888 said:

Since this will never be a purist grade restoration I will probably just go with some newer wheels that accept the later friction attached caps and save the originals.  As you mentioned, if I lose a cap, it won't be a big deal.

 

The tires that are on there have a lot of tread, in fact they look new and were manufactured in 2014 so they aren't terribly old.  I believe they were stored inside most of the time.  They hold air and roll well so I am hoping to use them for a while with whatever wheels I end up with.  I have a buddy who will mount "old" tires for me when needed

Yeah, the stock wheels from the 60's-80's will fit fine and has a certain look to them.

Some people are running a modern 17" wheel from a mustang or other vehicle.

 

I think it might be ideal to have a stock set of wheels and tires, hubcaps ... use for car shows or parades .... then install modern radials for daily driving.

 

I'm so tight on spending $$ and building my truck on a budget .... just amazing what they want for labor to dismount, mount and balance tires today. Here that is $40 for one wheel or $160 for 4.

I'm use to it being $40 for 4 wheels .... I use to own a coats 40/40 tire machine .... thinking it is time to buy another.

[888]

Hopefully this doesn't start a firestorm like it does on VW diesel web sites but what oil are you guys using?  

 

I got my repro Driver's Manual last night and it notes SAE 30 above 32 F, which is when I will be driving it, probably more like 60 to 90 F in the summer around here.  That's a 1954 recommendation but this is 1954 technology and it might be still the right thing to do but I want to ask the question. 

 

I've had a number of early first gen Cummins for the last 20 some years and I have been using 5w 40 synthetic Rotella in those (and my VW diesels and my John Deeres, VW and Subaru gas engines etc etc) but the 5w isn't recommended in the drivers manual till -10F and I've seen older tech engines leak synthetics. 

 

I think the high zinc content in diesel oils is beneficial so I'm leaning that way but dino oil versus synthetic and maybe a different grade, maybe 10w30 Rotella or Delo.  That seems like the way I'm going unless there is some experience out there that says it's a bad idea.

 

I do have lead additive for the gas already from another project and since I'm not sure if the valve seats have been done, I plan on using that. 

 

I grabbed my plug socket and bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil last night to dose the cylinders and apparently the bottle has been too cold for too long because the bottle cracked and I ended up wearing most of it.  The joys of winter time in the salt belt.

Edited Tuesday at 11:35 AM by 888

[ggdad1951]

1 hour ago, 888 said:

Hopefully this doesn't start a firestorm like it does on VW diesel web sites but what oil are you guys using?  

 

I got my repro Driver's Manual last night and it notes SAE 30 above 32 F, which is when I will be driving it, probably more like 60 to 90 F in the summer around here.  That's a 1954 recommendation but this is 1954 technology and it might be still the right thing to do but I want to ask the question. 

 

I've had a number of early first gen Cummins for the last 20 some years and I have been using 5w 40 synthetic Rotella in those (and my VW diesels and my John Deeres, VW and Subaru gas engines etc etc) but the 5w isn't recommended in the drivers manual till -10F and I've seen older tech engines leak synthetics. 

 

I think the high zinc content in diesel oils is beneficial so I'm leaning that way but dino oil versus synthetic and maybe a different grade, maybe 10w30 Rotella or Delo.  That seems like the way I'm going unless there is some experience out there that says it's a bad idea.

 

I do have lead additive for the gas already from another project and since I'm not sure if the valve seats have been done, I plan on using that. 

 

I grabbed my plug socket and bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil last night to dose the cylinders and apparently the bottle has been too cold for too long because the bottle cracked and I ended up wearing most of it.  The joys of winter time in the salt belt.

 

Your valve seats should ALREADY be hardened, I have'nt run anything but straight gas in my 51 for 12+ years now.  I am also lucky we have REAL gas, non-oxy, around me so I can avoid all the crap that happens when they mix in all the additives that eat old engine parts.  I use Amsoil Rod-Z for my oil so it has some zinc in the oil.

[bkahler]

I use Brad Penn Dino oil in all of my antique vehicles and older ATVs.  Lots of Zinc and great quality. 

[Young Ed]

I've been running rotella 10w40 or 15w40 in mine for a few years now. 

[JBNeal]

•On these flatheads, I've been running store brand 10W30 with Wix filters since the 90s, as I've rolled in temps from the 30s up into the summertime triple digits.

•87 octane gets treated with MMO to keep the carburetor from gumming up and the fuel pump diaphragm soft, also helps keep the gasoline stabilized since I'm not driving them daily nor on rainy days...too many easily distracted uninsured motorists in my neck of the woods to take that risk.

•Leave the lead additives to the blue oval sheeples.

•Rotella T6 synthetic has been used in the Laramie since day 1, and the QuadCab has been on a diet of Delo 15W40 for over 2 decades.

 

About a year before I sold The Blue Bomber ,I had an incident with a gallon of MMO...bought a jug at O'Reillys and put it behind the seat like I had done a brazilian times before, went to my next stop, and as I hurriedly exited the truck, I heard a thud a split second before the door closed--right onto the gallon jug that had tipped over somehow, cracking its neck and glug-glug-glug out the contents poured,over the door panel and carpet onto the parking lot pavement...JEEBUS what a mess 👀

Edited Tuesday at 05:08 PM by JBNeal
correcting incorrect autocorrect

[Los_Control]

Couple weeks ago I had my gauges out for wiring, when installed I started the truck up and instantly remembered I forgot to connect the oil pressure gauge .... poured all over my black tennis shoes before I could shut it off. 🙄

Is always something.

 

Currently I have synthetic 10/40 in the engine with about a quart of ATF .... I'm trying to flush the engine out before I start driving it.

I will change that and do the same again .... My truck does not have a filter and the oil is very black, like it ran non detergent oil before it was parked 30 years ago ... it needs a good cleaning and will probably have to drop the pan and scrape the gunk out.

 

After that process is finished, I have a jug of Rotella straight 30 weight I plan to run in it.

I think just about any oil is ok, they do not need special additives that I know of.

Some people think synthetic oil is to thin and will leak out of the rear seal faster then dino oil ..... makes sense to me.

My rear seal does leak a little bit with synthetic in it ... a spot the size of a quarter after several days .... I think that is kinda  common for these engines .... maybe Rotella will help.

[888]

21 hours ago, JBNeal said:

•On these flatheads, I've been running store brand 10W30 with Wix filters since the 90s, as I've rolled in temps from the 30s up into the summertime triple digits.

•87 octane gets treated with MMO to keep the carburetor from gumming up and the fuel pump diaphragm soft, also helps keep the gasoline stabilized since I'm not driving them daily nor on rainy days...too many easily distracted uninsured motorists in my neck of the woods to take that risk.

•Leave the lead additives to the blue oval sheeples.

•Rotella T6 synthetic has been used in the Laramie since day 1, and the QuadCab has been on a diet of Delo 15W40 for over 2 decades.

 

About a year before I sold The Blue Bomber ,I had an incident with a gallon of MMO...bought a jug at O'Reillys and put it behind the seat like I had done a brazilian times before, went to my next stop, and as I hurriedly exited the truck, I heard a thud a split second before the door closed--right onto the gallon jug that had tipped over somehow, cracking its neck and glug-glug-glug out the contents poured,over the door panel and carpet onto the parking lot pavement...JEEBUS what a mess 👀

I also have been using Wix (or NAPA, made by Wix) filters for a long time.  I was really disappointed to find out that the most recent NAPA filters I bought for the Kawasaki water cooled V twins in the John Deeres were made in China.  Didn't have a box, either.  Just a piece of plastic shrink wrapped over the business end. 

I was disappointed when the Fleetguard filters I use on the Cummins were coming fron Mexico a few years ago but I guess that's the way of the world. 

Speaking of global sourcing, in the VW world Bosch Super spark plugs used to be the gold standard until they were made outside of Europe and we all moved to NGK.  Is there a spark plug manufacturer that you guys use?  I don't see anything in the driver;s manual just yet,

 

I had the same thing happen as your MMO spill except it was a gallon of Power Service diesel treatment in the trunk of an older Jetta diesel. Not sure how it got out of the closed bottle but it got everywhere and the stench was almost unbearable. 

 

I bought another bottle of MMO yesterday.  It was on sale for $5 at Menards and I'd rather spend the $5 than try to salvage what's left in the cracked bottle before I have to.  That's is some messy stuff. 

[JBNeal]

NGK is good, so are Autolite and AC...I soured on Champion decades ago, but other ppl have been satisfied with that product. 

 

additional information - flathead tech