Intake and exhaust valve order

[Dan Hiebert]

I'm still working on getting our '37 Terraplane to start.  It is a process of elimination that I have not completed yet, (I'm not in any kind of rush, plenty of other projects pending), while waiting for some parts I am going to adjust the valves.  This question may fall into the realm of a stupid one, but I'm checking my reasoning and here goes; the engine is the stock 212.2 ci flathead six, same firing order as MoPar engines.  The order of exhaust and intake valves is different from MoPar flathead sixes.  I am going off of information from the P15-D24 Forum for adjusting the valves, which is that two stage method with #1 at TDC then #6 at TDC.  The information herein for the MoPar engines plainly states to adjust both, exhaust, or intake valves, for certain cylinders at these two stages, without specifying the number in line of the valve (1-12).  I'm good with that.  Q: Even though the valve order is different between the engines, since the firing order is the same, which valve(s) to adjust at the two TDCs would remain the same, wouldn't it?  Background - I have all the Terraplane manuals.  The information for adjusting the valves (tappets) is to adjust them according to the valve adjustment measurements given elsewhere.  That's it.  I had to go back to '33 to even find the valve order.  I am not in the HET Club (no reason, I'm just not.)  Says a lot for MoPar service information when compared to other makes.  

[Dan Hiebert]

I got to this sooner than anticipated and found the answer to my own question.  The short answer being "no". 

 

I could launch into a long diatribe about my reasoning, but that point would be moot.  I was looking for a similar tappet adjustment shortcut to what we have with the MoPar flat sixes, but the MoPar application won't work on the Terraplane engine.  The procedure on the Terraplane engine is two-fold, first adjust for timing (what the manufacturer calls it) when the engine is cold - get each cylinder to TDC and adjust that respective cylinder's valves, one cylinder at a time.  I won't say difficult for one person to do, but it does require flexibility, endurance, and patience.  Secondly, the manufacturer's authorized adjustment is to make the final adjustment of the valves when the engine is hot...and running.  So...static (cold timing) adjustment is done, now I've gotta get it started and running.  Waiting on some high-speed-low-drag ignition components.  Finally working in earnest on my retirement project after six years, although we've had the car for twenty or so.  So far I've been able to rely on you'uns for general advice and information that still applies to the Terraplane.  I'll probably bite the bullet and sign back up with the HET Club, and keep my brain picking of the Forum to the Ol' Dodge.   

[Ulu]

I rode in a 1937 Teraplane one time, and I thought it was a pretty awesome car. I was about $10,000 short of making a deal.

 

Good luck Dan.

[Dan Hiebert]

Thanks.  

[Young Ed]

On 9/5/2024 at 4:15 PM, Dan Hiebert said:

I got to this sooner than anticipated and found the answer to my own question.  The short answer being "no". 

 

I could launch into a long diatribe about my reasoning, but that point would be moot.  I was looking for a similar tappet adjustment shortcut to what we have with the MoPar flat sixes, but the MoPar application won't work on the Terraplane engine.  The procedure on the Terraplane engine is two-fold, first adjust for timing (what the manufacturer calls it) when the engine is cold - get each cylinder to TDC and adjust that respective cylinder's valves, one cylinder at a time.  I won't say difficult for one person to do, but it does require flexibility, endurance, and patience.  Secondly, the manufacturer's authorized adjustment is to make the final adjustment of the valves when the engine is hot...and running.  So...static (cold timing) adjustment is done, now I've gotta get it started and running.  Waiting on some high-speed-low-drag ignition components.  Finally working in earnest on my retirement project after six years, although we've had the car for twenty or so.  So far I've been able to rely on you'uns for general advice and information that still applies to the Terraplane.  I'll probably bite the bullet and sign back up with the HET Club, and keep my brain picking of the Forum to the Ol' Dodge.   

Technically the Mopar adjustment is hot and running too. My experience is getting it hot and then shutting it off and doing them quickly 

[Dan Hiebert]

Roger that.  But at least you can do a static adjustment to get started with just two turns of the motor, which is what I was hoping for with the Terraplane.  There may be a shortcut for the T-plane, but I haven't found it yet.  I did what Hudson calls the timing adjustment one cylinder at a time.  Which is an adventure because the timing mark is on the flywheel on the opposite side of the engine from the distributor, which is mounted low and to the rear of the engine.  I can bump the engine with a switch on the starter solenoid, the starter button, a wrench on the crankshaft nut, or with the auxiliary hand crank, which sounds great having that many options, but I can't see the distributor or valve tappets from any of those locations.  Would have been significantly easier if I could have done the #1 and #6 at TDC thing.  Just one of those pearls of antique car ownership. 

 

And no, I don't have it running yet.  I ordered new spark plug cables for it, which came with 15 feet of wire, plenty for normal I6 engines, but about 4 inches too short for the Hudson-Terraplane engine because of that distributor location.  Oh, well.  More wire on the way.  

Edited September 10 by Dan Hiebert

[Dan Hiebert]

Things that make you go "hmm".  Still haven't got the T-plane running.  Did a compression test and was not impressed, so I decided to at least lap the valves.  And discovered why this has been a challenge.  Once I got the head off, I could see that the timing mark on the flywheel is not where it is supposed to be.  I can only assume that at some time in the distant past, a PO had the flywheel off for some reason, and it looks like there is not an "only one way" to put the flywheel back on.  I hate to think the drivetrain was assembled incorrectly at the factory.  The timing mark is at #4 TDC!  When I put new spark plug cables on, I had just pulled the old ones off without paying attention where they were plugged in to the distributor, assuming the timing mark would be OK to show where #1 went.  I had replaced the cables when I first got the car, but I did those one at a time.  So, I had the #1 cable plugged in based on the flywheel timing mark, but it was actually plugged in to #2 in the firing order.  No wonder it wouldn't start.  Once I get the valves done and the head back on, I bet it fires right up.  I should be annoyed, but I'll most likely giggle like a little girl when it does.  I'll just need to put a timing mark in the correct location.

[Dan Hiebert]

Yep, and this'll be the end of this saga.  One thing neat about these old cars, I had the head off, the valve job done, valves readjusted, engine back together and plug wires corrected in a day.  Saying it fired right up would be a bit of a stretch, but it didn't take long to get running.  Peened some marks for the correct TDC on the flywheel, and still wondering whether or not it has been apart in the past - car "only" has 78K miles on it, lowest mileage of any car in our fleet.  Endeavor to persevere. 

Edited September 23 by Dan Hiebert

[Sniper]

11 hours ago, Dan Hiebert said:

Endeavor to persevere. 

 

Chief Dan George

 

 

[Dan Hiebert]

Yep!  Not many people know that.  I've always liked that quote, I used to sign off with it in my work emails.