OT: Hello from the new guy with a '39 Dodge

[Timothy_S]

I just wanted to post and say, "hey!" I know this is mostly for post-war cars, but skulking about the forums have already lent me a lot of helpful info on mechanical issues, seeing as we all use the same great flathead.

Ironically, I happened to take a hard look at the motor, and realized that it is a Plymouth, from a 1950 P20! Not expected: is there any benefit/disadvantage to having a P20 motor instead of the stock D11? The way I understand it, they were both identical? My motor# is: P20-206299

Car runs well and is complete, but I need to do a real thorough flushing of the cooling system, and replace all the fluids, and the tires. Besides that, I'm at that stage where I need things that no one carries, like knobs, excutcheons, etc. I'm waiting for the Mopar fairy to help on those. My only plans for under the hood are to replace the straight neck thermostat housing with a goose-neck, so I can run a straight rad hose.

For my first classic car, I love her! I'm looking forward to reading through all the threads here on mechanical care and maintenance.

[wills 51]

Welcome to the forum, You came to the right place if these guys can't help you then nobody can....

[50PlymouthSled]

I'm not too sure if there is any real disadvantage, unless you're a purist or restoring it.

[steveplym]

Welcome Timothy car looks neat. I would think a newer Plymouth engine would be better than the D-11 motor, unless you want an original motor.

If it runs good and doesn't smoke much drive it and enjoy it. I was always told if it isn't broke don't fix it. Hard to keep that philosophy when messing with old cars.

[50PlymouthSled]

Yes, that's true. Even if it's not broke, sometimes you just wanna fix or change it.

[Plymouthy Adams]

Well for starters..could be a lower mileage engine...and the fact you have about 17 more cubes...and an increase in compression of .3 increase in HP of approx 13 horse..21 ft pound more torque at same RPM...other than that..its still a flathead...

[Timothy_S]

Well for starters..could be a lower mileage engine...and the fact you have about 17 more cubes...and an increase in compression of .3 increase in HP of approx 13 horse..21 ft pound more torque at same RPM...other than that..its still a flathead...

Oh! I was led to believe that the P20 was the exact same 218ci motor as the D11. It would be fabulous if (besides hopefully less mileage) there was a power or reliability perk.

I have NO intention of replacing the motor... I'm more or less a purist when it comes to this car, but there's just no reason to pull it... besides the fact that you'd more or less have to lean in and check to motor number to even know it's not stock.

Right now I'm concerned with drivetrain maintenance, and all the rubber, which is about 20 yrs old. The car is in great shape, but it was last overhauled in the early 80's, and most recently has been sitting garaged for about 6 years. I also need to figure out why the gas gauge is not working... I know something is purposefully disconnected, but not sure which part. My other problem was the wheels, as the last owner had removed all of the hubcap slips in favor of some snap in moon caps. Luckily G&G Mopar had a set of orig clips and rivets, so I should be running the orig hubcaps shortly.

It's an adventure!

[Plymouthy Adams]

Oops..I compared Plymouth to Plymouth..me bad...Dodge did have the 218 enigne while Plymouth still was running the 201..last year for Dodge and 218 was 1941...so what you really have with the P20 over base Dodge is...

.5 more compression ratio...10 more horses and 9 more foot pound of torque...

though the block and bore stayed the same the compression was bumped up over the years...resulting in increase of HP and Torque..

[Timothy_S]

Holy Crap. Well I was poking around a (super slow) leaking freeze plug just now (prepping for the trip to AAA tomorrow to get the VIN verified and register the car) when I realized that my "oozing" plug is actually rusted through!

There was a paint bubble dead center in the plug that turned out to be butter soft, with moisture behind it. I didnt poke my finger through, but it looks like I could if I wanted to. This is a brass plug... rusted through. I was hoping to just goo the leak for the trip, but there is no way I can make the drive now. How the hell does one drain the block without making a mess? I can drain the radiator all right, but where is the block drain? I park in a huge condo garage, so I can't spill any liquids. Upshot is its a pretty excessible plug, but its still behind the oil breather tube, which will mean whacking the new plug in place difficult.

Of course this doesnt bode well for what else may be awaiting me in there, either. All the other (visible) plugs are solid. I got no idea what the covered ones look like.

[greg g]

These should be a block drain petcock on the side of the block in the area of the distrubutor. If the petcock isn't there you see a pipe plug (square headed plug) should be under the freeze plug behind the oil fill tube. You can pull that to drain the block. You may need to run a piece of wire in and around to establish the flow.

I had to replace one of my plugs on the side of the road. I used one of those temporary boiler plugs. They are a chunk of rubber with a piece of brass on either side and a nut in the middle you tighten to expand the rubber. They are available at NAPA or other autoparts places. the temporary repair is now on its 3rd year. (yep, overcoming inertia to replace something that is working is hard to justify)

On the liguid spill front. Go to the nearest chain drug store and buy some of those absorbant pads they sell to go on beds. These unfold to about 2 x 3 feet, and the have a plastic barrier that goes floor side and the absorbant material then faces up. These will hold a lot of liquid and make retention and clean up of spills easy. I have one under whee I park the car cause it does have a few leaks. Keeps the garage floor dry, I use a couple a year to keep the drips from migrating.

[BobT-47P15]

Hi Timothy. Welcome. The oil filler tube is removable far as I know. You just have to warble it around a bit, try to turn it a little and maybe pull up with some vice grips on the top edge....sorta gently so as not to bend it out of shape. Then it should tap back in.....I put a small piece of 2 x 4 on the top and tap with a hammer.

[eric wissing]

Welcome to the Forum. Great looking car. Eric

[Timothy_S]

Well its shaping up to be a project weekend then. There is a valve by the freeze plug, but it has no spiggot, so I suppose it drains directly out the center of the valve? Heh. If you look in the pic that I attached in the original post you can see the offending freeze plug, and the discoloration from years of leakage just right of the filler tube.

I'll have to give it a whack on saturday. The biggest problem I have is that I need to get the VIN verified before I can get a new title, and register the thing... and after 3 months of loan and shipping problems, the loan company is breathing down my neck to provide a title. But I need to get the thing on the road to get the VIN done... CHP won't come by the house, and local PD doesnt know what the hell it is doing.

The brakes need work also, but are usable for short trips... the right front break grabs while stopping, so a wheel cylinder may be out. Well I wont be able to do anything until the weekend, but I have a feeling that this thread will get longer before too long!

Thanks guys.

[Don Coatney]

This is a brass plug... rusted through.

Brass does not rust.

When you install a replacement make sure you use a good sealent between the engine block and the Welsh plug prior to wacking it. The Welsh plug measures 1 5/8" and it is best to find one that does not have an extended lip same as I have pictured below.

[Timothy_S]

I have a replacement set that I got from Burnbaum. Your right Don, I hadnt thought of that... I assumed that since the upper plugs were brass that the lower one was also, but its covered in so much crud that its hard to tell, and is obviously non-brass, cuz that sucker is shot. Its a sickening feeling when metal gets squishy.

[Timothy_S]

Well I replaced the rusted plug with one of the "temporary" rubber expansion plugs... drove it all the way to AAA and back with no leaks and no problems, though I definitely need to bleed the brakes.

There was a good 2 inches of firm, wet mud behind the plug. It cleaned out real easy, and feeling around all cavities with my finger, that area of the block felt free of blockages. But I'm sure that same mud is hiding behind all of my other plugs, and in the dist tube. Now that I've got the car registered, I can drive it somewhere that I can flush the block with a hose. I've already got a replacement water tube, but dissasembling part of the car to get at it will have to wait a few months. The upshot is she has never gotten remotely close to overheating, and ran no hotter than 160 on the 10 mi round-trip to AAA.

As soon as I can get my hands on a proper 1939 gooseneck thermostat housing I'm going to change out the thermostat as well.

This weekend I'm going to try and replace the fluid in the tranny and rear end, bleed the brakes, and lube all the grease fittings.

[Normspeed]

One nice thing with these is they run zero lbs of radiator pressure. Sometimes (not always though) you get a little more warning on stuff like that corroded freeze plug, a bad hose, etc.

Nice looking car, I love that front end! Classic stuff.

[greg g]

If it were me, I'd leave well enough alone on that thermostat housing. Changing to the other style necesitates a change in the water pump gasket also. As the two different housings indicat a different bypass rout for the coolant until the thermostate opens. If you are determined to change it wait until you have the radiator out to change the tube. If you are concerned about the shape of the tube ( and running at 160 indicates its probably in condition) you can take some temp readings of the head sruface temp by pointing one of those infra red surface sensor thermometer at it. If the temps are fairly even across the area over the valves yer probably good to go. Keep in mind where the heater line outlet is is probably where the coolant is the hottest.

Nice looking car, love those 39 headlamps. Glad you got it driveable thats what its all about, cept of course for the stopping..... Bleed from the pass side rear, dr r, pass frnt, dr front. And as long as you have the top off the MC, shine a light down in and make sure you can see two holes in the bottom of the reservoir. One for feeding the piston, one for allowing the pressure to release and return the fluid to the cylinder.

[Timothy_S]

Well I'm about to go pickup a spare front clip for my car that Old Stovebolt has sitting around. At worst, I'm going to transplant the wheel cylinders and brake componants, but I'd like to just swap out the complete wheel assemblies. The front end he has had a recent brake job, so that should fix my brakes nicely. I don't have any permanent storage space, so I'm going to take as many usable componants off as possible (tie rod ends, steering arms, etc), and the rest goes to the junk yard.

I was working in the trunk the other day and realized that there are no wires hooked up to the gas tank float... no wires in sight! So now I need to find the wires, and then test the installed float, as well as the spare float that came with the car. I have a feeling that the wires are disconnected becuase the installed float wasnt working right... it seems the last owner had a habit of just disconnecting things when they stopped working right.... the speedo, the heat riser, the gas float, and the door check rod, to name a few

Thermostat housing: Not as big a deal, both the current one, and the one I will be replacing it with have the same external heater bypass... the only difference is one is a straight neck to the rad, and the replacement is a goose neck. I may have to replace the heater bypass fitting gasket, but I shouldnt have to touch the water pump.

This holiday is car central at my place.

[Young Ed]

Tim if you need to fix that door check Tim A will agree these pieces I found at my hardware store are a good way to go.

[Plymouthy Adams]

yessir and the price is right..I bought a goodly amount for all my expected repairs down the road..very pleased with the low profile head and good steel...Ed pulled the fat out of the fire with that one...