Arm rest for template

[D35 Torpedo]

Hopefully this post skirts the rules...i have been unsuccessful finding arm rests. My last hope is that someone can send me one for templating and I can ship it back. A friend suggested making them out of wood. But the shape is fairly complex and I'm not a good woodworker. If anyone has any other suggestions, my ears are open. Attached is a pic i found online.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

[Happy 46R]

Hello, here is an out of the box thought. Could you provide rough or at least scaled measurements to the tech department at your local high school or someone who is equiped  with a 3D printer? They could make the base which you could then upholster? I hear they are making 3D models in carbon and other materials now not just plastic. The nice thing with this is you could scale it accordingly or try various sizes for very little investment or cost.  Just an idea. Dave

[D35 Torpedo]

20 hours ago, Happy 46R said:

Hello, here is an out of the box thought. Could you provide rough or at least scaled measurements to the tech department at your local high school or someone who is equiped  with a 3D printer? They could make the base which you could then upholster? I hear they are making 3D models in carbon and other materials now not just plastic. The nice thing with this is you could scale it accordingly or try various sizes for very little investment or cost.  Just an idea. Dave

That's an interesting idea. But I would still need something to template, and it's to techie for me. I can't believe there is noone on this forum who can help with a part I can template. 

[Young Ed]

Do you have a part number? If it fits 49 or 51-52 or Plymouth you'd have a much bigger net. 

[D35 Torpedo]

2 hours ago, Young Ed said:

Do you have a part number? If it fits 49 or 51-52 or Plymouth you'd have a much bigger net. 

Oh ya i posted them in my other post 1104546 1104547. I think they are 49-50 only.

[Ivan_B]

I would suggest Googling the tube/book/forums for someone with a matching car, then contacting them personally to see if they will be willing to share

I was, once, trying to find a rare taillight for another older car and replied to a few 10-year-old forum ads I found on Google. One of the posters replied that the original lights, posted on the forum, were sold a long time ago, but he might have an extra pair somewhere in his storage. A couple weeks later I had my lights!

[42D22]

Any chance a pair from a 4-door will fit?

[Ivan_B]

I was looking at some interior pictures, and it seems they are way different.

[Young Ed]

20 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

Oh ya i posted them in my other post 1104546 1104547. I think they are 49-50 only.

That number doesn't come up in my 51 Mopar parts book so it looks like your 49-50 only is right. I just inherited a bunch of Dads books I'll see if he has a 50 Plymouth parts book

[Eneto-55]

I would guess that the arm rests are the same, for both 2 & 4 door vehicles.  I don't have a Dodge, but here are some photos of the ones out of my 4-door P15.  (I also have a 2-door, but it's at my brother's place, over 1,000 miles from me.)  The P15 4-door arm rests stick out into the door opening a bit.  That's why I would guess that they are the same.  I think that if you had pictures of a 4-door Dodge, you could determine if they are the same.  But as far as the construction, these photos may help.

 

[Eneto-55]

The first three are the left side, and the 4th one is the right side, which is in much worse shape.  I want to keep the left side as it is, but further disassembled the right side, in order to be able to show the interior frame work.  (I have more pictures, and I'm not finished with disassembly, either.  Had to stop & fix the lawn mower.....  I will post more if you think it would be helpful.)

[D35 Torpedo]

5 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

The first three are the left side, and the 4th one is the right side, which is in much worse shape.  I want to keep the left side as it is, but further disassembled the right side, in order to be able to show the interior frame work.  (I have more pictures, and I'm not finished with disassembly, either.  Had to stop & fix the lawn mower.....  I will post more if you think it would be helpful.)

Thanks, they are similar, but different. A different part number as well. The 4 door is furnished on both sides, because you see it when you open the back door. It's also small cuz you have to step by it. The 2 door one is bigger and only furnished on one side. There is no door there...so it can be optomized for the space. Regarding your 2 door arm rests. Id be willing to pay shipping for it to be sent to me, then ill ship it back. It would need to be 49 or 50. I think that's a p17? And p19. And, im not even totally sure the 49 is the same.

Edited April 17 by D35 Torpedo

[Eneto-55]

5 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

Thanks, they are similar, but different. A different part number as well. The 4 door is furnished on both sides, because you see it when you open the back door. It's also small cuz you have to step by it. The 2 door one is bigger and only furnished on one side. There is no door there...so it can be optomized for the space. Regarding your 2 door arm rests. Id be willing to pay shipping for it to be sent to me, then ill ship it back. It would need to be 49 or 50. I think that's a p17? And p19. And, im not even totally sure the 49 is the same.

My 49 Plymouth is a P15 (First Series 49).  I just thought the photos of the "bones" of the arm rest might be helpful in constructing replacements.  Obviously, it would be best if someone could supply detailed drawings of the frames for your model of Dodge.  I would think that as many of these vehicles are parted out, someone would have the parts available.  Of course, finding that person is the difficult part.  Too bad your employer didn't at least ask around before tossing yours.  

[Sniper]

Did you check with French Lake Auto and see if they had any?

[D35 Torpedo]

39 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Did you check with French Lake Auto and see if they had any?

I did.

[D35 Torpedo]

3 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

My 49 Plymouth is a P15 (First Series 49).  I just thought the photos of the "bones" of the arm rest might be helpful in constructing replacements.  Obviously, it would be best if someone could supply detailed drawings of the frames for your model of Dodge.  I would think that as many of these vehicles are parted out, someone would have the parts available.  Of course, finding that person is the difficult part.  Too bad your employer didn't at least ask around before tossing yours.  

When I had mine, I did note there construction. Basically a bunch of 1/4" bars bent to a specific form and then welded together. Theres a tab where it slots into the wheel well to affix it. Each bar needs to be templated as well as the other features. The skeleton defines the shape.

[Eneto-55]

22 minutes ago, D35 Torpedo said:

When I had mine, I did note there construction. Basically a bunch of 1/4" bars bent to a specific form and then welded together. Theres a tab where it slots into the wheel well to affix it. Each bar needs to be templated as well as the other features. The skeleton defines the shape.

Yes,the P15 design uses two tabs, one at the rear and the other at the top front, that fit into slots. (Without going to look, I think the rear one is a bracket welded to the wheel well, and the front one is a slot in the inner body body panel.)  Then there is a single screw that holds it in place (at the lower front corner).

[D35 Torpedo]

Bump

[Eneto-55]

On 4/17/2024 at 2:10 AM, D35 Torpedo said:

Thanks, they are similar, but different. A different part number as well. The 4 door is furnished on both sides, because you see it when you open the back door. It's also small cuz you have to step by it. The 2 door one is bigger and only furnished on one side. There is no door there...so it can be optomized for the space. Regarding your 2 door arm rests. Id be willing to pay shipping for it to be sent to me, then ill ship it back. It would need to be 49 or 50. I think that's a p17? And p19. And, im not even totally sure the 49 is the same.

When you say "They are similar, but different. A different part number as well." - are you referring to the 1950 Dodge 2-door and 4-door, or are you saying that the P15 2-door and 4-door rear arm rests have different part numbers? 

 

I don't have any parts number manuals that cover the interior parts like that.  My thinking (just based on my sometimes faulty memory and on looking at what few pictures I have gathered of both 2-door and 4-door P15s) is that they are the same.  That is, aside from the possibility that the part of the arm rest that is exposed on the 4-door, and not on the 2-door may not have the finished upholstery on that area on the 2-door.  It would seem to me, however, that omitting that narrow bit of upholstery for the 2-door cars would not be cost effective, in terms of then needing to maintain completely separate inventory during the manufacturing process - UNLESS the entire shape is different, which in the case of the P15s, I strongly doubt.

 

(If there is interest, I have completely dismantled right rear P15 arm rest, and have more pictures of the actual frame.  The fabric on mine is really deteriorated and fragile, with parts of the face missing on both sides.  I also removed the upholstery on the left side, and have cut all of the stitching.  I think I can come reasonably close to a reconstruction for a pattern by laying the two one over the other.  But if anyone has good patterns of the upholstery for the P15, I would be very interested in knowing about it.) 

 

EDIT:

I looked some more, and I did find info for the 4-door on page 330 of the "1939 thru 1948 and Early 1949 Plymouth Condensed Master Parts List (issued September 1949)" PDF copy I have - probably downloaded from this site.  The picture there on page 330 isn't clear at all, but it points to the rear right arm rest, and titles it as "Rest Assy", with the number 23-76-66.  If there is a separate plate (picture) for the 2-door, I could not find it.  I didn't find this item in the actual parts list, either.  Obviously the left rear arm rest would have a different number.

Edited April 21 by Eneto-55
additional comment

[D35 Torpedo]

On 4/21/2024 at 3:46 PM, Eneto-55 said:

When you say "They are similar, but different. A different part number as well." - are you referring to the 1950 Dodge 2-door and 4-door, or are you saying that the P15 2-door and 4-door rear arm rests have different part numbers? 

 

All I can do is reference my 1950 parts book and google images. What I've said is deduced from that. Anything about other years is speculation. There is no possible way a 2 and 4 door can be the same, or they would share part numbers. You're talking a two sided shape vs a one. 

[Eneto-55]

5 hours ago, D35 Torpedo said:

 

All I can do is reference my 1950 parts book and google images. What I've said is deduced from that. Anything about other years is speculation. There is no possible way a 2 and 4 door can be the same, or they would share part numbers. You're talking a two sided shape vs a one. 

Thank you for that note.  I only have the PDF scan from the Plymouth parts manual I mentioned, and it is not searchable.  Yesterday I looked through all of the pages of the section titled Numerical Index, that shows the match-up for part numbers, page numbers, & part type codes (pages 444 - 482, with 4 column on each page)  The photo on page 330 in the Body section indicates the Part Type Code.  This list is organized per the Part number, but the PDF scan is not very clear, and I didn't find the Part Type Code.  So I don't have the part number information for the Plymouth.  But while I do not have my 49 P15 2-door here for me to look at it directly and make a 'real world comparison" (would also have to remove the arm rest from the car, to see the little bit of the back side that is exposed on the 4-door P15), the shape of the arm rests appear to be identical in the few photos I have of that area of the interior.  So at least in respect to the P15s, I find it difficult to believe that they would have chosen to not use that very small bit of upholstery material on the 2-doors as well as the 4-doors, forcing them to have completely separate inventory supplies.  (That piece of material is 5" wide by 13" in length.  And they would have still had to use some type of fabric there anyway, unless the arm rest frame was also different.  That just doesn't seem like an efficient manufacturing model to me - and my business is in manufacturing.  Also, regarding conservation of fabric, along the back and bottom of the arm rest, where there is a need to be able to stretch it tight, there is around 2 inches of excess fabric.)

 

But of course, as you said, I am talking about the P15, and you are talking about the 50 Dodge, so the case might be completely different.  I WOULD be interested in seeing that page out of your Dodge Parts book, if you happen to have a scanner.  (Or, if your Dodge book is available here in PDF format - the name of the book, and the page number where this information appears. Thanks.)

[D35 Torpedo]

16 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

  That just doesn't seem like an efficient manufacturing model to me 

Perhaps not, but we are talking the glory days of automotive production. And even today, everything is year make and model specific. Cars are full of proprietary garbage to dazel the consumer. Every 4 door car is different in the rear seating compared to its two door counterpart. It's inherent to its design. I'm not sure there is a single car produced today in both a two door and four door. But that's a different topic all together. As for a 2door d35 or p19, the arm rest mounts against a stationary panel, and so are flat on the back side. They are not upholstered either. The 4 door version doesnt have that luxury with a door beside it. I cant see a p15 being any different...

[Eneto-55]

I should have stated more clearly, that I am only referring to the sedans, the design with the continual slope from roof top to deck lid.  The other style sedans may well be different all together in that area.  But on these P15 sedans, the arm rests mount in the exact same position in relation to the rear wheel wells.  I will have to do some actual part to part comparison to know for sure that they are exactly the same.  But if anyone else is following this topic, and has patterns for the P15 sedan rear arm rest upholstery, I would sure like to get in contact with them.

Edited April 24 by Eneto-55
typing error.

[D35 Torpedo]

4 hours ago, Eneto-55 said:

I should have stated more clearly, that I am only referring to the sedans, the design with the continual slope from roof top to deck lid.  The other style sedans may well be different all together in that area.  But on these P15 sedans, the arm rests mount in the exact same position in relation to the rear wheel wells.  I will have to do some actual part to part comparison to know for sure that they are exactly the same.  But if anyone else is following this topic, and has patterns for the P15 sedan rear arm rest upholstery, I would sure like to get in contact with them.

Ah ok i got ya. There should be a metal tag wired to the arm rest frame from factory with the part number stamped on it. 

[Eneto-55]

On 4/24/2024 at 11:42 AM, D35 Torpedo said:

Ah ok i got ya. There should be a metal tag wired to the arm rest frame from factory with the part number stamped on it. 

Mine had a white cloth tag sewn into one of the seams, but both were completely deteriorated, with nothing legible at all.

Edited April 26 by Eneto-55