B3 Door Build & Assembly

[bkahler]

In this thread I'm going to document the assembly of my B3 doors and hopefully get some answers to a few questions that I have.  I plan to build the two wing windows first, next  assemble the two roll up windows and then install everything into the two doors.

 

This first picture shows all of the components for one wing window.  I meant to take this picture before I installed the rubber gaskets but forgot to

 

 

 

The next picture shows all of the components for one roll up window assembly.

 

 

In a follow on post I'll list where I got each of the pieces along with part numbers.

 

I do have a question on the four screws holding a wing window to the door frame.  While removing the rotten hard brittle rubber from the frame I found four top had style brass sleeves.  They were imbedded about half way into the rubber.  The rubber gaskets I bought from Roberts years ago does not have any sort of sleeves installed.  My guess is when new the sleeves were on the top and when the screws were drawn into the door frame the sleeve would slowly over time sink into the rubber.  Am I right or if not how the heck do you use these sleeves?

 

 

 

More to come.....

 

 

[seware74]

I've been doing the same thing to my driver's side of my '54 C1B. When disassembled there was only 1 of the brass sleeves present. So for my first attempt at reassembly I only had the one. Everything went together fine but the rubber tended to bunch up a little around the location where the screws went in without the sleeve. This made the wing difficult-ish to close. I suspect that it wouldn't hold well either as the rubber spreads around the screw as it's tightened. I took it back out and found some similar sleeves at the hardware store. They needed a little grinding to match the original length, but went in fine and solved the bunching and closing issues.

As for how to use them: I put the screws through the sleeves and then pushed both through the outer hole in the seal until the screw found it's home in the door and then screwed it in slowly until the screw felt tight. This left the flange of the sleeve compressing the rubber slightly without malforming it.

 

Best of luck.

Edited June 12, 2022 by seware74

[bkahler]

21 hours ago, seware74 said:

I've been doing the same thing to my driver's side of my '54 C1B. When disassembled there was only 1 of the brass sleeves present. So for my first attempt at reassembly I only had the one. Everything went together fine but the rubber tended to bunch up a little around the location where the screws went in without the sleeve. This made the wing difficult-ish to close. I suspect that it wouldn't hold well either as the rubber spreads around the screw as it's tightened. I took it back out and found some similar sleeves at the hardware store. They needed a little grinding to match the original length, but went in fine and solved the bunching and closing issues.

As for how to use them: I put the screws through the sleeves and then pushed both through the outer hole in the seal until the screw found it's home in the door and then screwed it in slowly until the screw felt tight. This left the flange of the sleeve compressing the rubber slightly without malforming it.

 

Best of luck.

 

What you're describing is pretty much what I figured would happen without the brass sleeves.  When I was removing the old rubber gaskets the sleeves appeared to have been imbedded in the gasket.  I had to break the old gasket into pieces to get the sleeves out.  Of the 8 sleeves one of them was broken but fortunately I had a spare set of windows to salvage a sleeve from.

 

Thanks!

 

[JBNeal]

I think those little sleeves are supposed to pinch the rubber so the gasket won't shift around so much when the vent window frame is being opened or closed.

[bkahler]

1 hour ago, JBNeal said:

I think those little sleeves are supposed to pinch the rubber so the gasket won't shift around so much when the vent window frame is being opened or closed.

 

New gaskets might have moved around a little bit, but there was no way the hardened rubber gaskets needed any sleeves! ?

 

I wonder just how pliable the original rubber was?  The new (bought in 98) gaskets from Roberts were still fairly pliable when I installed them in the frames.  Not that it was an easy task but easier than I originally anticipated.

[ggdad1951]

Part of the brass bits function is so that you don't overtighten the rubber to point of destroying it.  Acting as a spacer for a compression member if you will.

[bkahler]

4 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

Part of the brass bits function is so that you don't overtighten the rubber to point of destroying it.  Acting as a spacer for a compression member if you will.

 

Makes sense.

[bkahler]

This picture covers the remainder of the components that go inside the door.  

 

[seware74]

What's the condition of the wound spring on the remote? Mine was missing altogether but I managed to find a NOS remote and replaced the rivet to the connecting rod with a brass sleeve and screw combo. 

 

Somewhere I found someone who is making the retainer portion (with the four legs bent over) but now I can't find it. Replacing this piece would allow you to also replace the spring if need be. 

 

Anyone know who is selling these? 

[bkahler]

3 hours ago, seware74 said:

What's the condition of the wound spring on the remote? Mine was missing altogether but I managed to find a NOS remote and replaced the rivet to the connecting rod with a brass sleeve and screw combo. 

 

Somewhere I found someone who is making the retainer portion (with the four legs bent over) but now I can't find it. Replacing this piece would allow you to also replace the spring if need be. 

 

Anyone know who is selling these? 

 

All the springs are fine.  

 

The window regulator and door latch mechanisms on the drivers side were pretty much shot but I managed to source a nice set from a 1950 truck that I picked from in a salvage yard.

 

[bkahler]

Last night I was verifying the fit of some parts and noticed that the front window run bracket had what looked like an alignment hole.  I checked the other door and no alignment hole was present.  

 

Anyone else run into this before?

 

[ggdad1951]

new to me

[bkahler]

5 minutes ago, ggdad1951 said:

new to me

 

Only thing I can think of is maybe someone had to remove the roll up window and wanted to make sure the window run was replaced in the same location.  

[David A.]

It’s been a while since I installed mine, but is that where the screw goes that holds the vent window frame in place?

[bkahler]

14 hours ago, David A. said:

It’s been a while since I installed mine, but is that where the screw goes that holds the vent window frame in place?

 

Good point.  I think that is right in the area of where one of the screws for the vent window would be.  I'll check this evening and report back.

 

Thanks!

[bkahler]

Finally started assembling the doors last night.  The latch assembly is completely installed on the passenger door.

 

 

 

I've also got the driver side installed but it's not acting quite right so I plan on pulling it back out to see what the problem might be. 

 

Two steps forward and one back  

[Lingle]

Love following the thread, Ive struggled removing the latch mechanism for quite some time and havent actually been successful but this thread will be very helpful when I start assembly, keep up the good work!

[ggdad1951]

1 hour ago, Lingle said:

Love following the thread, Ive struggled removing the latch mechanism for quite some time and havent actually been successful but this thread will be very helpful when I start assembly, keep up the good work!

 

1.  there is a sweet spot

2.  it takes some wiggling

3.  it takes some amount of oompf

[bkahler]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:00 PM, David A. said:

It’s been a while since I installed mine, but is that where the screw goes that holds the vent window frame in place?

 

David, you nailed it

 

It is the screw hole for the wing window.

 

[bkahler]

5 hours ago, ggdad1951 said:

 

1.  there is a sweet spot

2.  it takes some wiggling

3.  it takes some amount of oompf

 

When pushing the latch mechanism into place I had to use a little force to depress the bolt into the housing slightly before it would slide into place.   The first door took a bunch of finagling before I figured that out.  The other door was in and done in no time

 

[Jocko_51_B3B]

 

Fortunately I found (and kept) one brass sleeve when I took the vent windows apart. I forgot how it came out so now I'm wondering about its purpose and location. If someone has a picture showing the exact place to installed them would help clear up the mystery. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Jocko_51_B3B
wrong information

[Merle Coggins]

Are they not molded into the new rubber seals? It’s been a while since I’ve done this, but I recall that the new seals had the metal spacers build in. They are there so that the screws have something solid to tighten against without distorting the rubber. 

[bkahler]

8 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

Are they not molded into the new rubber seals? It’s been a while since I’ve done this, but I recall that the new seals had the metal spacers build in. They are there so that the screws have something solid to tighten against without distorting the rubber. 

 

Back in 1998 when I bought mine from Roberts they did not have the metal guides in them.  I salvaged the little sleeves from the old rubbers.

[Jocko_51_B3B]

Merle, you're correct. I scratched around on the surface of the seal and twisted the rubber a little bit and I was able to spot the flanges of the sleeves embedded just below the surface of the rubber. The sleeve in the second hole at the top end of the seal was embedded the deepest (approx. 1/8 inch) and was the hardest to see. Thanks again.

 

HOLE AT THE TOP END OF THE SEAL

 

SECOND HOLE FROM TOP END OF SEAL WAS EMBEDDED THE DEEPEST

 

HOLE AT BOTTOM END OF SEAL

 

 

[bkahler]

Jocko, from who did you buy the gaskets and when did you buy them?