booster waterpump, electric

[Go Fleiter]

Under extreme conditions, I have had thermal problems sometimes even though having installed a new waterpump plus high performance 2- layers radiator core. (The 3. layer would not have stayed in between the original radiator frame) plus an additional high power fan (12 V driven).

Traffic here is fast, intense, and as we travel a lot with the Plymouth -heavily loaded with bagages- he encounters hot summers, traffic holdups, heavy mountain gradients or all together ...

 

James Douglas came up with the idea of an electrical Davies- Craig pump and there I found booster pumps.

The downloadable instructions etc. tell 9-15 V DC Voltage, but the online product sheet allows 6-18V DC.

 

Well as I have 12 and 6V onboard, I will just try both voltages.

Anybody had a booster installation done on his flatty?

Where take the water out and where push it back?

 

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

Edited April 16, 2022 by Go Fleiter

[Bryan]

Moglich 100km/std am Autobahn is besser als 160km/std.  Ich bin noch am arbeit mit meine.  Viele Grusse aus SC! 

[Sniper]

Well, the fittings on the booster pump are setup up for 12-19mm, which works out to 1/2" to 3/4 inch and that tells me heater hoses is where you are looking for a connection.  Reading further into the data sheet tells me this isn't a water pump per se, but a booster.  6 gallons a minute flow.  Not real sure how well that would help cool the engine using the existing heater hose connections.

 

Then I looked at their electric water pumps, they splice into the lower radiator hose.  40 gallons a minute flow, not sure what the stock pump is rated at.  BUT! they draw a lot of current. 10A @ 13V, double that for 6v.  Might exceed the charging system's ability.

 

One thing to consider, I have seen kits that put an electric motor on the engine to spin the stock water pump instead of using the belt.  Not sure how durable they would be as the ones I remember were for drag race applications.  https://www.holley.com/products/cooling/water_pumps/parts/4333

 

I till think a smaller water pump pulley would be a better choice, if one could be found.

 

 

 

 

 

[FarmerJon]

When water pump was off, did you check your water distribution tube? 

Have you flushed out the sediment out of the block?

 

Are your overheating problems at low speeds, or at highspeed, high load conditions?

 

If at high speed, it could be a issue that would be counter intuitive, with the pump spinning "too fast" and creating cavitation, effectively not pushing enough coolant. 

 

I am not sure how I would try to determine if I needed to spin the pump faster or slower.

 

Several companies make "water wetter" that changes the surface tension of the coolant, to make it more efficient, this would be easy to try.

 

I recall someone posting about how to "T" in a bypass circuit into the heater hoses, so that when the heat was off they system didn't dead end at the back of the block, maybe that alone would help.

 

Have you looked at your distributor timing and fuel mixture? Both can contribute to engine temperature under load.

Also, some feel that the stock exhaust set up, with one outlet at far end of the engine causes so much restriction that it can add heat as well.

[desoto1939]

The original poster states he has thermal issues but does not state what is really happening with the water temperature or any type of reading from the temp gage.  Is the car over heating and reaching the max temp of 220 and the coolent is boiling over out of the radiator?  Does he have the correct radiator cap. did he put on a pressurized cap of around 4-7 lbs. I think these cars still use a non pressure cap like an R-3 rad cap. If he is using a pressurized cap he might have to change it.  

 

Has there been a back flushing of the entire cooling system, how much crude is inthe block and radiator. what is the condition of the water distribution tube, what is the timing on the car, is it set properly. Is there any restriction in front of the radiator to restrict air flow.

 

Whole lot of little things can cause his problem.  We all need more input with specifics to help

 

I have a 39 desoto and I have gotten to 200 inthe summer but after moving again the temp come back down. 

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com

[James_Douglas]

Exactly when is it over heating? In stop and go or on high speed freeway runs?

 

James

[Go Fleiter]

OK, it´s most serious overheating was 7000 mls since having engine and it´s systems rebuilt.

It was on the trans- Appenin- Autostrada near Florence/ Italy. Very hot,

intense Traffic, long grades, heavy baggage (and riders!) but no stalling, 50 mph speed restriction.

I had to stop because the temp gauge passed the rightest line, I didn´t want to have steam come out!

I had the electric fan than, maybe it was less performing than mine of today as was the radiator core.

I let the engine - thus the waterpump- run idle for some 10 minutes, then temp gauge fell to

middle. No harm to engine happened.

I doubt that the additional fan plus waterpump would help while driving at 50 mph.

Without overdrive at that time, the original fan should have been spinnig fast enough.

 

I have had a couple of other similar situations with different configurations of cooling etc.

But I hate those situations and an additional waterpump could manage temperature while stopping more safely.

 

Thanks for Your thoughts!

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

[FarmerJon]

Are you running a thermostat? 

 

What is your ignition timing set at?

 

Are you burning 100% gasoline, or the 10+% ethenol blend fuel? (Not sure  if that is thing in Europe)

[James_Douglas]

Ok,

 

Something is not right. When everything is working correctly I have never had one of these engines over heat when running down the freeway. Now that said, the couple of times I went up large mountains like going from San Francisco to Reno over Donner Summit or going over Grants Pass from Oregon to California I did it fairly early in the day.

A couple of things come to mind. A LOT of these engines has a lot of crap in the engine blocks and one has to go to some effort to clean them out. My present engine even was "acid dipped" to get the mineral scale out of it. Lucky I live in San Francisco so the water in the block is almost perfect (Hech Hetchy) and will not add back mineral scale over time.

 

Now, assuming the block is good an clean I would look to the following:

 

1. Timing. It is possible that the mechanical or the vacuum advance is wrong. Too much advance can cause over heating. If that advance is happening at higher speed then that may be a cause.

 

2. The step up piston in the carburetor. The Carter BB uses a little tiny piston (brass) on a spring in the carburetor. What this does is move with the engine vacuum. I have noticed with ethanol in the gas that the vapor (ethanol) from the fuel bowl that gets sucked around that brass piston starts to gum up around it in the zinc diecast bore of the carburetor. If this little piston is not free to move and hangs up one will get a lean or rich condition. If it is a lean condition this can cause over heading at freeway speeds. I had this happen but it was not enough to over heat. It did however melt the tip of a a spark plug! The piston was fine.

 

3. An air bubble in the cooling system. Try to find the highest place in the system. Usually the heater hose connectors and crack it open while filling the cooling system to make sure it is in fact full. When water starts to run out tighten the hose clamp.

 

4. I am assuming the radiator is on very good shape and that the thermostat was tested in a pan of water on the stove to confirm it is opening all the way prior to its installation.

 

5. Make sure the fan belt is not slipping.

 

That is it until I get some of my morning coffee in me. The next time we visit my sister in law near Munich if we make a run up the Rhine toward the North Sea I will let you know. Good luck. James

 

 

[Go Fleiter]

Thank You all for the valuable hints!

Well, these factors hasn´t been checked for some time, above all the carburetor.

Number 1 and 2 may apply here.

The Ethanol - free gas here  nevertheless contains 5% Ethanole. That may cause some extra trouble!

Enough reasons to recheck all that and to clean the carb at the beginning of this season!

Greetings from Düsseldorf!

Go

 

Whenever You come across Düsseldorf, You are welcome to call for a City- Tour in Plymouth,

if timing and circumstances permit!

Edited April 18, 2022 by Go Fleiter

[dpollo]

I have the twin to your car, Go.  In BC mountains there are some steep and some long grades.

On a very hot day,  over 90 F, I drove my convertible on such roads and found that a steady 45 mph without overdrive

the temperature stayed high - normal.  When I reached my destination, we went over the radiator and block with a laser

thermometer and found that the temperatures were not as high as the gauge suggested.    I can supply a smaller water pump

pulley as found on trucks should you need or want it.

[Go Fleiter]

David, I have seen Your Twin sometimes in the POC- Magazine!

Here in Germany we have only one more 51 Convbertible, as far as I know.

Over restored, metallic silver, dash etc. Ferrari red...

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by Go Fleiter