Found my camshaft! - Pulling motor on 1948 Dodge.

[Bryan]

Changing the truck hoses and thermostat worked out ok.  Put everything back together and no leaks. Took a while though. Decided to flush the system out.  What I thought was rust was more mud. Dirt daubers (wasps) built a dirt nest in the overflow reservoir.  Got in through the vent.  Took about 3-4 times filling the system up with water to get the flush out (sodium citrate).   Now 50/50 anti-freeze.    

[Bryan]

Finally got all the valve guides out.   Once the screw/bolt moves them somewhat, you can use the air hammer.  If you try the air hammer first and they don't move, you can shatter the tops of the guides. Then you have to bust the tops off flush with the bore before you can get the bolt to set evenly on the guide top.  Had the wife take a pic of my "workshop".

[61spit]

Steady progress. Looks like it is about ready to send to the machine shop to be checked over.

[Bryan]

Last thing from yesterday. Spent the day cleaning/arranging in my shed/shop. Measured the bore of the block, was getting 3.2600-3.2615.   The pistons are marked 0305 on top and fit into the bore.  They can't be 30 thousandths.  Any opinions?

[Sniper]

0305 could mean anything.  Did you measure the pistons?  Your FSM should tell you where to measure them and the specifications.

[Bryan]

6 hours ago, Sniper said:

0305 could mean anything.  Did you measure the pistons?  Your FSM should tell you where to measure them and the specifications.

I was just measuring the bores at the top where I could get my digital caliper down into (about 1/2").   The other block that wasn't bored was reading 3.2510, 3.2500, 3.2505, 3.2520 on different cylinders using the same method.  Just expected on this one some indication of .020, .030, etc over.  3.2615 doesn't make sense.

[Bryan]

Cleaned the valve tappet area up today and did more organizing in the shop.   Cleaned the block enough so I can use my pressure washer on it on a warm day. Didn't want to blow a lot of oil sludge all over the place.  Under the valve seat area some have ridges. When I get the block back after magnafluxing for cracks might do some port work. Just enough to smooth rough bumps and ridges out, nothing else. Check the deck out with my straightedge and feeler gauges.  .0008 would fit under some places. .0012 wouldn't fit in any spots.  The manifold surface was a little worse. The .0012 gauge would fit under some spots, but I think around some of the bolt holes it is high.

[Bryan]

Might pressure wash the block today if the wind dies down today.  Mid 70s in SC right now but wind gusts are terrible. Did get the radiator drain plug & idler pulley changed on my 92 truck late last week.  One more item and will be road worthy.

[Bryan]

Pressure washed the block. Had already cleaned most of the grease off. Did mostly the water jacket. Forgot to bring the head out and do it.   Got soaking wet. Those ports shoot it right back at you. Dried motor off and oiled it.

[61spit]

Looks like it is cleaning up really well. When I had mine at the machine shop for checking they baked it after it was magnafluxed. They put in new camshaft bearings and ground the valves. I had given them the tappets and cam after they were ground at Delta. It looked like a brand new casing when I got it back.

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, 61spit said:

Looks like it is cleaning up really well. When I had mine at the machine shop for checking they baked it after it was magnafluxed. 

Just called the place I'm planning to have the machine work done.  $120 to bake and blast the block. $30 to magnaflux. I'll haul it up there this week. Get it back and do some minor port work.  

[Bryan]

This morning dropped off the block and both heads to be cleaned, blasted and checked (magnafluxed) for cracks. Asked them to measure the bore so I could order oversized pistons.  Place is about an hour away but a loud ride. Truck exhaust still has a leak.

[Bryan]

Sick again. Wife and I went grocery shopping and got a little wet.   Anyway, I had asked the shop to measure the bores so I could buy pistons.  Today I went outside and measured the pistons that came out of the new block I had bought (after I read the manual on where to measure). Three were 3.2505..reckon they're standard no matter what the number on top is.  Anyway, a question. What is the spacer in the top ring land?  Don't see it on new sets being sold.

[Bryan]

Anybody on the above piston ring question?

[Sniper]

As a guess only, there is (was?) a company selling two piece top rings to seal combustion chambers more thoroughly.

 

But that doesn't look like the setup they used

 

https://www.totalseal.com/rings/gapless-rings they do make a set of these type rings for the 230 though

[kencombs]

Measure the width of the top groove, without the spacer.  At one time it was common to machine pistons that had groove wear to accept a standard width ring and spacer.  Saves the price of new pistons.   A lot of local parts stores with a few machines in back did that sort of thing..

Edited March 12, 2022 by kencombs

[Bryan]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:56 PM, kencombs said:

Measure the width of the top groove, without the spacer.  At one time it was common to machine pistons that had groove wear to accept a standard width ring and spacer.  Saves the price of new pistons.   A lot of local parts stores with a few machines in back did that sort of thing..

 Measuring .1420 without spacer.     0.105 to 0.130 on different places with spacer.  3/32 ring = 0.09375    0.1420- ring thickness 0.09375 is 0.04825 space.   Specs in my FSM are .0025-.004.   0.105-0.09375 = 0.01125.   Wonder if specs in my book are wrong?   2nd ring gap without spacer measuring exactly 0.100.  0.100 - 0.09375 = 0.00625 still outside of specs. Weird, but you can see why they had spacer in.

[Bryan]

More parts today - 2 tappets from Vic's Dodge.  Wrapped in some kind of grease paper and in original box.

[mellie]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:05 AM, Bryan said:

 Measuring .1420 without spacer.     0.105 to 0.130 on different places with spacer.  3/32 ring = 0.09375    0.1420- ring thickness 0.09375 is 0.04825 space.   Specs in my FSM are .0025-.004.   0.105-0.09375 = 0.01125.   Wonder if specs in my book are wrong?   2nd ring gap without spacer measuring exactly 0.100.  0.100 - 0.09375 = 0.00625 still outside of specs. Weird, but you can see why they had spacer in.

Hi Bryan

 

Not wanting to bogart your thread but what Kencoombs said about your piston was the first I could find on the subject. I've run into the same thing on my '51 230 ci disassembly except the spacer ring is on the second groove down. As you can see, the top grooves on a few pistons are pretty hooped - not sure if the machine/spacer ring is feasible or would machining costs dwarf a new piston set (which I see you are working towards). 

 

The previous owner said it was knocking pretty bad when he parked it 38 years ago - he thought it was bottom end but I'm wondering if this groove width would cause knocking. Enjoying your thread - very educational!

[Bryan]

2 minutes ago, mellie said:

Hi Bryan

 

Not wanting to bogart your thread but what Kencoombs said about your piston was the first I could find on the subject. I've run into the same thing on my '51 230 ci disassembly except the spacer ring is on the second groove down. As you can see, the top grooves on a few pistons are pretty hooped - not sure if the machine/spacer ring is feasible or would machining costs dwarf a new piston set (which I see you are working towards). 

Enjoying your thread - very educational!

Thanks a bunch.  In another separate post there's another issue that's bugging me - compression height.   Some pistons seem like they are .02 shorter at the top in case someone decks the top of their block.  Would be good to know which pistons are like this.

[Bryan]

Don't think the groove width having play would cause knocking.

[Bryan]

The machine shop called yesterday that my block and 2 heads are ready. Had all tanked, blasted and magnafluxed. He said none of them have cracks. He said the cylinder measurements would call for a close .020 oversize, but said I'd be safe with .030 oversized pistons.  Was saying you might have a few spots on the cylinder if he did a .020.  I told him I'd go with a .030.  We discussed the compression height issue and he affirmed "rebuilder" pistons were usually .02 lower.   I told him I measured the flatness of the block and it looked good to me.  I ask him to also back-check me and check the flatness also. If it's flat I'll get the EGGE pistons with 2.00 CH.  Asked him if he oiled the block, he said most people don't want that.  I told him it might be a while before I get it back to him, he'll spray it down.  He said the cost of all should be about $280.  Will go next week when I get money from savings.   Also asked him about valve seats. He said they usually replace only the exhaust seats.    Presently working on my home security system and having back muscle problems..too much leaning over to wire RJ45 jacks

[Bryan]

Took the old block out of garage and brought block from the machine shop in.  Wore me out.

[Bryan]

Noticed even on the newly cleaned block the main oil galley still looks rough.  Going to find a rotary wire brush or some tool to run through it

[kencombs]

20 hours ago, Bryan said:

Noticed even on the newly cleaned block the main oil galley still looks rough.  Going to find a rotary wire brush or some tool to run through it

 

 

Gun cleaning kit with all the brushes (.22, .30, .45, 20ga etc) is a great shop tool.  Use with lots of solvent, I like 'hot' paint thinners.