Help Me Further Understand Top End Engine Wear

[Dodgeb4ya]

I would avoid chinese new stock parts.

[keithb7]

I’ll do my best. Vintage Power Wagon has NOS pistons. I’d read newer updated pistons were beneficial? They offer those too.  Cam ground I suspect?
 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by keithb7

[Dodgeb4ya]

Factory and most replacement pistons were cam ground for the flatheads too.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Dodgeb4ya

[Sniper]

I know the Freewheeling Tony Smith has developed modern pistons using modern rings for the 218/230 engines.  Not sure of he sells them though or if he has anything for your engine either.  But it can;t hurt to talk to him, though I imagine they are pricey.

 

https://www.facebook.com/thefreewheelingtonysmith/photos/pcb.3450240358330529/3449910451696853

[keithb7]

On 12/11/2020 at 6:31 PM, Sniper said:

I know the Freewheeling Tony Smith has developed modern pistons using modern rings for the 218/230 engines.  Not sure of he sells them though or if he has anything for your engine either.  But it can;t hurt to talk to him, though I imagine they are pricey.

 

https://www.facebook.com/thefreewheelingtonysmith/photos/pcb.3450240358330529/3449910451696853

 

Thanks for the info. I'll consider it.

 

More engine pondering... I  have asked some questions related to this topic before and you guys taught me a lot. I'm thinking deeper about this as I rebuild my 228 engine.

 

I was recently thinking about the various block lengths, bores and head gaskets.

 

Canadian 25" long 218 and 228 engines are 3 ⅜" bore. The difference in the displacement, is the result of a 4 1/16" stroke on the 218 versus the 4 ¼" stroke in the 228.

I assume these would share the same head gaskets?

 

The same 25" block is bored to 3 7/16" for the 237, 251 and 265 ci engines. This 25" long block, bored to 3 7/16" is also the same dimensions I believe as 25" USA blocks. Earlier versions of this 3 7/16" bore engines were known as the Spitifire engines. The Spitfire labeling was dropped from the head by the early 52-53 or so .These bigger bore engines were found in the Chrysler and Desoto cars of the USA. The differences being  4 ¼", 4 ½" and 4 ¾" stroke. I assume these engine would all use the same head gasket? 

 

Am I on the right line of thinking here? In terms of head gasket commonality?

 

The engineers did a great job of sharing parts and making these cookie cutter 6 cylinder engines, almost all the same. It sure makes it a lot easier for us to cobble something together 70 years later. I suspect one could take a 218 Canadian 25" engine, tear it town. Find a bad crank? Maybe you find a 265 crank & con rods. Bore the block out to 3 7/16 and use the 265 crank & rods. Now that 218 engine is basically a 265. Is this so? What about flywheel weight? Front pulleys? Other bolt on parts from the 218? Did the 265 use a 10 or 11" clutch. The 218 and 228 a 9 1/4" clutch? Very interesting stuff indeed.

[Dartgame]

I dont much about the 25 inch motors. For the 218/230 23 inch motors they use the same piston. Items that change are the crank and rods between the two. So to make a 218 into a 230 you only need change the crank and rods since the bore is the same on both.

[Bryan]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:56 AM, Sniper said:

Easiest was to R&R the guides is with an air hammer

 

Link to the driver he mentions https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/airdrivers.html

 

Ordered the 11/32" driver for air hammer.

[keithb7]

7 minutes ago, Bryan said:

Ordered the 11/32" driver for air hammer.

Yes I took out all my valve guides with an air hammer. Getting them back in with same air hammer? No go.

I froze the guides to -50C. I still could not get them in properly. I wrecked two new valve guides with the air hammer, trying to install them. I stopped and gave the new guides to the machine shop to install while he was doing the machining work. I told the machinist what I'd done, when trying to install. He said he just drives them in with a proper stepped punch and a 5 lb hammer or so. He said be sure to oil the guides before you try installing them. I missed that step. Might have helped me. Would also prevent any possible galling at install.  I am not sure what the interference fit is between the guide and the block. Indeed it is tight. An air hammer hits rapid but at less force. I think the 5 lb hammer and a punch, some oil, and some elbow grease would be the way to install new guides. Proper depth below the block deck surface is necessary. I had one guide that ended up about 0.030" high and the valve would not seat nor seal.

 

 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, keithb7 said:

Yes I took out all my valve guides with an air hammer. Getting them back in with same air hammer? No go.

 

 

Yep, I saw that in the video. I was just trying to find the tool that you used. Hopefully it was the shorter valve guide driver tool and not the extended length.  Hoping the 4" tool will be enough.   I've only got a 3 ton arbor press and a large vise. Wish I had a 20 ton hydraulic but no room and costs too much for one or two times use.  I'll probably let the machine shop install the guides. If they're missing there's no misunderstanding with them about what to do.  Your videos are great.

[kencombs]

I made an installation driver using a brass drift. Pilot sizing isn't really critical.  Steel on cast iron seems to be a chipping risk to me.   4 lb hammer drove them out and back in..