Your thoughts on these brake shoes

[woodie49]

Attached are photos of the two sets of brake shoes from the front of my '49.  These are off because i am doing the king pins, the brakes have no problems.

 

You can see the passenger side shoe linings are the same size and centered about the same. However, on the driver side, the lining of one shoe starts significantly further behind the anchor bolt area (and looks like the lining might have been broken at that end at one time) and extends almost to the end of the shoe, while on the other shoe, the lining starts quite close to the anchor area and ends about about 1/2 from the other end of the shoe.  Both the linings are very definately affixed to the respective shoes.  I am sure that nothing has been moving for a few thousand miles.  The inside of the drums show no issues as well. But, something doesn't look right. I think I will have the lining extending to the end of the shoes be the leading edge for that shoe, and I think that is how it was when i pulled it off.  Since everything is permanently affixed, and I have used these since I've owned the car, i believe there is no reason to feel they are unsafe. 

 

Any thoughts on this?

[desoto1939]

The first thing that I did notice is that you have bonded brake lining but the one shoe has the old rivit holes. Does not affect the braking.

But most lining would have been chamfered on each end to help with the brake shoes. the lining in your picture might have brokrn off and I would double check that the end of the broken lining is still being held on tightly. If any doubt then replace the brake shoes with new lining and also onthe other brake drum do both wheels at the same time.

 

Check your service manaul in my 1936-42 Desoto parts Master Book it states that the small or short lining is placed on the back or rearward facing of the brake drum.  Some brake shoe are done witht he smaller shoe on the forward side of the drum.

 

Rich Hartung

desoto1939@aol.com 

[plymouthcranbrook]

The top two pics wouldn't bother me but the bottom two don't look good.  As Rich said it certainly looks like something broke off considering the unevenness of the short piece. I am such a Chickens++t on brakes I would most likely just spend the money and get a new set. PIA I know but would not feel comfortable with those.  Or have new linings installed on both sets.

Edited October 3, 2020 by plymouthcranbrook

[Dodgeb4ya]

Now days no one relines the old Lockheed shoes short and long.

Modern day cars yes....front primary shoe is short....secondary rear shoe is long.

If the OP's brakes worked flawlessly for him and the bonding is good I would re- use them just so he doesn't end up with all the break in soft/low pedal issues so many people seem to have because they don't have the experience dealing with these type of brakes. Also the need for the proper lining and tooling to do the brakes quickly and efficiently.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Dodgeb4ya

[Jerry Roberts]

My guess is that the guy who relined the shoes did it with sloppy workmanship . If it isn't broken , don't fix it . 

[Sniper]

10 hours ago, Jerry Roberts said:

My guess is that the guy who relined the shoes did it with sloppy workmanship . If it isn't broken , don't fix it . 

Problem is, at least one of those shoes is broken.  We used to reline the brake shoes on the overhead crane we used at the cement plant and I did many of them.  Not really sure how the electricians got that job, seems the repair guys should have had it.  Nonetheless, it's not rocket science though as with anything, attention to detail is critical.  Half assery like not using the right length linings as per the manual is just pure laziness and/or incompetence on the part of the reliner.

[desoto1939]

I reline all of my brake shoes for my 39 Desoto that have the riveted lining and also have the Starr brake band that holds the lining tight against the metal shoe and the rivet tool to peen over the back of the rivet.  The manin thing is to get the correct brake linings for your car.  I do have several brake catalogs that tell the exact width lenth and thickness for various cars from the mid 1930 into the fifties and even the number of rivets and the correct rivet size.  It is not a hard job to do and for me it is fun and you get to understand how the brakes work.

 

As per dodge 4 the modern positioning of the brake shoes was chnaged to put the smaller shoe up front and the larger shoe onthe rear but my  owers and service manual for my 39 Desoto states differently so I go by which is set fromt he factory. Also on my factory shoes the small lining is attached at the bottom of the metal shoe.

Also make sure that the ends of each lining is chafered on an angles for approx 11/2 to 3/4 inches this is so that the lining does not break becsue of the rotation.

 

I noticed that both of your lining were not chamfered and this probably the reason why the lining broke off you need to have a smooth tranfer becauseof the roatation of the drum  

Some of the slides from my power point presentation on brakes

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

 

 

 

 

[Dodgeb4ya]

Most of the brake linings sold today online don't have the right friction make up.

Back then the primary and secondary shoe linings were different materials..

Biege and gray were typical colors.

The short and long linings supposedly helped with self energizing characteristics. 

MoPar stopped the short and long linings in the late 40's or early 50's as I recall.

[Sniper]

MoPar didn't have self energizing brakes till the center plane design came along.  I tell you for sure my 51 does not have them.  Though when self energizers came along the shoe's job changed and that's the reason the lining lengths changed.

[Dodgeb4ya]

The purpose of the short and long lining and location on shoe web causes the self energizing shoe action.

It's true that MoPar was advertising their new self energizing Center Plane brakes starting in 1956.

[desoto1939]

So the question is that since I have the Old style lockheed brake system and each shoe is adjusted individually and the 1936-42 Desoto Master parts book shows the factory setup with short on the rear and long on the front is this incorrect?  I do not have self energizing brakes.

 

So what is correct old school or new school brake setup?  Big question that alot of people are asking.  I am not the expert but would like to know what is correct.

 

Thanks for anyone's input.  Always willing to learn more about my 39 Desoto.

 

Rich Hartung

Desoto1939@aol.com

[Dodgeb4ya]

The dual single cylinder front brakes on MoPar  cars ( rears on Pickups)  are 100% self energizing... the single cylinder rear brakes on cars ( front brakes truck).... only the forward shoe is self energizing going forward.

 Those short linings on the old Lockheed MoPars face towards the rear of the car....unlike modern day Bendix type drum brakes.

Location height of the rear shoe lining placement is important when installing these short lining shoes as shown above..

Usually the Factory shoes and or linings come with installation instructions.

After market no.

Follow the factory shop manual when in doubt.

Edited October 3, 2020 by Dodgeb4ya

[desoto1939]

2 hours ago, Dodgeb4ya said:

The dual single cylinder front brakes on MoPar  cars ( rears on Pickups)  are 100% self energizing... the single cylinder rear brakes on cars ( front brakes truck).... only the forward shoe is self energizing going forward.

 Those short linings on the old Lockheed MoPars face towards the rear of the car....unlike modern day Bendix type drum brakes.

Location height of the rear shoe lining placement is important when installing these short lining shoes as shown above..

Usually the Factory shoes and or linings come with installation instructions.

After market no.

Follow the factory shop manual when in doubt.

Dodgeb4ya:  You have so much experience with these older cars and that for your reply.  I did notice that a mechanic had my shoes installed incorrectly with the small lining up front becasue the newer way is to do it that way but he did not know the old proper way that they should have been installed.

 

I am always learning about this car even after owning it for 32 years.  Never too old to learn something and when you stop learning that is when you die.

 

This is why I like this forum becasue people ask questions and there is someone that knows the answer and is willing to give advice.  I was always taught to pass along information becasue that is how we keep moving forwards. To hold back on knowledge is not good especially when dealing with old cars.

 

Thanks again

Rich Hartung

[Dodgeb4ya]

I too am still learning on these old MoPars.

This forum has taught me plenty with the knowledge base here.

Since the internet came around getting quick  information and parts is wonderful as are these forums.

I'm fortunate to have had many years of working on the old MoPars to learn what I have.

Hopefully the information I spew out is over 90% correct?!