1938 Throttle & Starter Linkage Clues and Questions

[keithb7]

I have a few questions about the starter linkage on my '38.  Being as I know the original engine was swapped out, and a 1953/4 25" long 228 ci engine was installed. The car is 82 years old and not everything is stock. Stuff gets jacked during 82 years worth of backyard mechanics.  I think I am missing a few parts and ideas and I'm not sure. As I mentioned I have no local '38 Mopar cars to compare mine to. This '38 is my first crack at this pre-war stuff. The manuals leave out a fair bit of stuff and has me scratching my thick head.

 

I have been having a few issues with throttle. Linkage related I suspect. The car has the foot starter button. I like it. You manually push the linkage to make contact on the starter switch and the engine turns over nicely. There seems to be little to help return the starter foot rod linkage back to its original stand-by position. I suspect a spring or two is missing.  Where is there supposed to be return spring on the foot starter? Can anyone share photos of the linkage on their foot starter? Show me some return springs?

 

Also the foot starter linkage has a bracket that ties it into the throttle linkage. So as you push the starter lever, it engages the throttle linkage and squirts a shot of gas from the accelerator pump into the carb venturi.  I suppose to help the engine flash up easier. Back in '38 the choke was a manual cable that the operator worked. However, note that my engine is a 53/54 version with a same year matching carb. It has the automatic bimetallic spring choke. During my recent "test & tune" episodes, I have found  that if the car is fully warmed up, if you stall the engine or shut if off, it does not want to start easily. (remember, every time you hit the starter foot pedal it injects a shot of raw fuel). So I suspect it may be flooding the engine when this scenario happens. The concept maybe was needed for the original '38 engine and carb? But is not needed for the '53 era carb?....I also found that the throttle linkage was getting a little bound up and causing hi engine revs.  The throttle rod from the gas pedal takes a 90 deg turn after it goes through the firewall. A rod travels across the firewall to the passenger side of the car, then another 90 degree turn, straight toward the front of the car to the carb linkage. Wiggling the linkage bit, or pulling up on the gas pedal relieves the high engine idol.

 

So tonight I get to thinking, maybe the starter foot pedal linkage is the culprit here. So I remove the starter linkage piece where it engages the throttle rod. I pump the gas pedal myself a time or two and the engine flashed up when cold. It's sub freezing here tonight and no problem. I let the engine fully warm up and shut it off. Starts right back up no problems. No more apparent flooding the engine with gas whenever I hit the starter. Seems that this throttle rod to starter rod lever is adjustable with a set screw. It can be set to squirt more or less fuel when the starter is engaged.

 

This is all well and good, and probably should all work together when set up properly. I suspect it will work when springs are in place to help snap the starter linkage back to home position.  Tips, pics, illustrations are appreciated.

 

Here is a pic of my starter linkage. You can also see the throttle rod linkage running in behind along the fire wall. Ignore the loose bolt seen. I was fiddling with it.  Thanks. Keith

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by keithb7

[keithb7]

Going thru several reference book here there is little mention of these parts except this photo seen below.  They call the photo “Throttle pick-up adjustment”.  Nothing else mentioned in print. No reference to the photo. Just a photo only. 

I think I see a spring on the forward starter linkage mount. Right beside, to the left of the "1" in the photo. I am missing that spring...Another clue.
 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by keithb7

[Merle Coggins]

The trucks also have throttle linkage that routes across the back of the block, then forward to the carb linkage, as you explain. I find that if I spray down all joints and metal-to-metal sliding points with a good spray dry lube it removes enough friction so that the throttle can return to idle properly. I know I’m overdue for another spray-down when the linkage starts hanging up again. 

[Young Ed]

My trucks with foot pedal start the spring is right under the foot pedal on the interior side of things. 

[keithb7]

16 minutes ago, Young Ed said:

My trucks with foot pedal start the spring is right under the foot pedal on the interior side of things. 

Thanks Ed. I was thinking of a solution and came up with a spring as you mentioned. I’ll see what I can round up. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by keithb7

[plymjim]

Here is a picture of my '38, throttle linkage, stock linkage, aftermarket Zenith carb.

the spring in the lower left corner was added by me to relieve a similar issue with

idling. This car, however, has been converted to a  push button starter. 

This is a '54 engine, '38 intake manifold cast with an offset & 2 holes to support the 

linkage. not sure if all later manifolds had this provision. 

By the way, this is a Dodge & came stock for '38 with automatic choke.

[keithb7]

@Young Ed and @plymjim here’s what I tried and tested tonight. Works good so far. Both the starter  button and the throttle got a  spring each. Feels good. A road test in the future will ensure. 
 

 

[Pete]

Keith - that spring under the gas pedal is exactly what I did on my '38 Dodge Brothers pickup. It's worked well for years.

Pete

 

[bones44]

This is what I adapted to my 37 D5 starter

 

• See more like this
•  

  

   

  1935 1936 1937 1938 Plymouth Dodge Desoto Chrysler NEW Starter Pedal Ret Spring

  Brand New

  $12.99

  Time left5d 8h left (Wed, 09:26 PM)

  0 bids

  +$6.95 shipping

  Watch

[keithb7]

Forgot to mention, with the starter linkage no longer connected to the  throttle rod, no more flooding. I’ve been running It up to temp and shutting the engine off and restarting. No problems anymore. 
 

Am I missing the real reasons why the starter linkage is connected to the throttle? It seems unnecessary.  Perhaps it was a short lived idea that they later gave up on?  Was it designed for easier starting for owners who had no idea when to give it a shot of gas or not? I suspect if the linkage were adjusted properly I could get it to stop flooding.
 

What was the original intended to benefit this concept?

As it is now it is running very well.