1939 Chrysler Australian built

[Mike Rimu]

I have a 1939 Chrysler that is a right hand drive Australian built car that I am planning to do some restoration work on. Does anyone have any information on these cars?? In the USA it is a Plymouth and some parts I have order I have ordered the Plymouth parts instead of Chrysler parts. I want to rebuild the engine the # is T3834402. Would I need a Plymouth kit or Chrysler kit?

Any information on the car would be great

 

Thanks Mike

[Plymouthy Adams]

Chrysler built both...typically the true Chrysler carried a larger block...you will buy your engine parts based on stock application and apply any over/under size as needed and determined by your clean up of the block and crank.....

[greg g]

The T prefix here means it a Dodge truck engine. How long is the head?? 

[Mike Rimu]

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately the car is in New Zealand and I am in the States so I dont know how long the head is. I will try and get a friend to measure it. I was wondering why the car would only do 40 miles an hour!!

[Los_Control]

16 minutes ago, greg g said:

The T prefix here means it a Dodge truck engine

 

10 minutes ago, Mike Rimu said:

I was wondering why the car would only do 40 miles an hour!!

[Mike Rimu]

Talking with oldmoparts.com it seems that you are right and it a 37 Dodge truck motor. I might have to look into replacing it with something newer that will preform better.

[Plymouthy Adams]

get it state side and then do your evaluation of the vehicle....simple changes may all that needs be made to correct any deficiencies in performance...heck it may be coursed with Lucas distributor......  OR....who knows if some out back chap changed rear end for running in the wilds...….good to think and consider all points but a first hand eval is always first order of business unless you dead set on a upgrade from the get go and at that point it could be a perfect running flathead and not suit you.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Plymouthy Adams

[Mike Rimu]

Thanks for the info and ideas. The car is staying in NZ as that is where I live. I'm working in the States for a bit and wanted to get parts here to save on shipping and tax. Apparently I will need to change the gearing in the gearbox to a higher ratio to get some more speed out of the car. Anyone know where I might be able to purchase them? Or is it just better to drop a different engine and gearbox in?

 

Thanks

[Plymouthy Adams]

too bad  you did not account for this prior to your trip to the US....it is very hard to say without a teardown of the engine what will be needed to clean it up...or for that matter is it even close to stock now or been bored in the past.  Alas many folks like to go straight to max overbore with the vain belief that they going to get a whopper monster HP output and thus kill longevity as you cannot go but X bore without sleeves and starting anew.  Any guess here could be expensive....!   Stock ratio is not specified in my factory Plymouth manual for that year...odds are it is a 4.1 but that is just a guess. on my part.  3.9 are very common and should not be hard to find.   The US Plymouth had the 23 inch engine in 201 cubes.  Not sure if any of this is of any help but in reality your exacts needs are unknown as your exact specs at this time is also in the realms of the unknown.

[greg g]

Transmission gearing has little to do with top speed as all usually have a 1 to 1 top gear unless an overdrive is in place. Taller tires, lower numerically rear ends are better associated with higher over the road speed. Changing to a later rear axle from a doner car can be the best way to address that situation.  Typical car rear ends for 40's Mopars were 4.11, 3.99 and 3.89.that said my 46 is equiped with the 4.11 set and it would easily exceed 40 mph.  Engine revs at 60 mph is apx 3300, Wich is a lot for a long stroke engine but there was some left for passing and hill climbing.

 

Some donor vehicles here are Mopar b body cars, Jeep cherokee, Ford ranger pick up or explorer.  They have gear sets in the 3.23, 3.55, 3.7 neighborhood and can put cruising rpm down to mid 2000 or so.  But New Zealand has lots of hills if I'm not mistaken so 3.55 or 3.7 might be best for overall driveability.

This assumes an engine in good operating condition with good compression and in good tune.

Edited November 9, 2019 by greg g

[Mike Rimu]

Thanks everyone for the reply's !! I have no technical knowledge what so ever so I really appreciate you advice and input. I would like to drop the wheels down from the skinny 16 inch to some wide 15's as it doesn't handle that well on the road so changing the rear axle would be a good idea. I don't need to go really fast but 40 miles an hour is to slow for other road users following me. I thought that it being a truck motor that is wasn't suited for the car, but from so research on the web it seems that it is ok. When I go back for a holiday next year I will get someone to take the head off and check out the motor to see what needs to be done.

 

Thanks Mike

[greg g]

Start by doing or having a compression check done,followed up by a vacuum gauge reading and interpretation.  Those two tests will give you a better idea of engine condition with out pulling things apart.  Look up reading a vacuum gauge at the secondchancegarage web site.  Also search compression gauge use of.  On the same site.  These are tests you can do at home or have a shop do them as a starting point.

[Andydodge]

Mike..........first off.....how certain are you that it is an Oz built car?..............does it have TJR stamped into the firewall........or does it have a TJ Richards plate on the passenger side of the cowl in front of the door or another on the top of the firewall again on the passenger side  ...TJRichards were the Oz body builders based in Adelaide and the Oz mopars were virtually ALL Plymouth based with minor molding, badges and trim differences......Plymouths sold in Oz were marketed as "CHRYSLER PLYMOUTHS" and even had both name plates on the side of the nose cone.............my understanding is that ALL Mopars sold pre war in NZ were directly imported into NZ from either the USA or Canada CKD and bodies were NOT built in NZ due to the small market...........as for the engine.....measure the cylinder head and if its 23" and a bit then it a Dodge Plymouth based engine......if its 25" and a bit then its a DeSoto/Chrysler based engine.........water pumps, carbys and timing chains are about the only things that directly swap...........pistons, rings, bearings, gasket sets, water distribution tubes, intake and exhaust manifolds are all specific to either the small or long engine......each engine group has 3 or 4 displacements with differring bores and strokes.....you MUST find out what engine it is before ordering parts.....lol............I'd still measure the length of the cylinder head just to be certain what engine family it is from as if the Dodge truck came from Canada it could have been the long engine, if the truck came from the USA then it should have the short engine..............also it has had the headlights swapped to an aftermarket 7" sealed beam conversion which was unfortunately a common thing once the 7" sealed beam headlights were introduced in 1940....the original Plymouth headlights were a one year only square lends and surround............this front on pic is of a 1939 Plymouth with the square headlights ...........and for me it is a 1939 PLYMOUTH......not a Chrysler, irrespective whether it has a Chrysler badge, it IS a Chrysler Plymouth or just a Plymouth.........using "Chrysler" in your search for parts etc will really confuse the Yanks bigtime............lol......... .Andy Douglas          

Edited November 10, 2019 by Andydodge

[Tony WestOZ]

To add to what Andy has said,

Firewall TJR stamping

 

 

ID plate

 

 

Richards badge

 

 

Not sure about the Chrysler Plymouth though

 

 

 

[Andydodge]

Tony........thanks........as for the "Chrysler Plymouth" thing I have seen Oz Plymouths with a "Chrysler" badge and also seen and own Oz mopar literature that has "Chrysler Plymouth" but for me if its a Plymouth then irrespective of whether or not the Chrysler wording or badging appears that car is a Plymouth...............these 2 scans are of an Oz 1940 Plymouth brochure I bought 45yrs ago and show the "Chrysler" wording but are just Plymouths as far as I am concerned and I have seen the Chrysler wording as mentioned actually used on the car badging, I think it was just part of a marketing ploy for both earlier and later Oz Plymouths............and the "TJR" that Tony has shown as a separate plate spot welded on the firewall has also been seen just as his pic shows but also just stamped directly INTO the firewall metal, not just as a spot welded on plate.............andyd   

[Mike Rimu]

Thanks Andy & Tony

 

Useful information. I did find on the net that T Richards was the builder in Aussie. I haven't seen any stamp or badges with his initials on the car. Its located in NZ and I'm in the States at the moment so I cannot have another look at the moment. It could have well just been directly imported to NZ like you said Tony. I have no way of finding out the history, because the ownership papers don't go back that far as it has been re-registered at some point. The first parts that I ordered from the States I got wrong as I ordered the Chrysler part and it cost a lot to send them back and re order. The engine has a T as the first letter and from what I have been told here and calling oldmoparts.com its a 1937 Dodge truck engine. I am also not sure if it is stock or its been replaced at some point. The thing is that top speed is only 40 miles an hour which is frustrating for people behind me so I am looking at ways to get the speed up a bit. 

 

I brought it off a friend and the gearbox was rebuilt when he sold it to me (he now regrets selling it!!) so $2000 was spent on it. I'm not sure whether I will drop a more modern motor in or re build the one that's in there. I don't care to much it its not original as I just want it to perform better. I cant measure the block at the moment either but my friend who sold it to me said that he will swing by my place at some stage and measure it up. I'm also looking for the chrome strip that runs along the hood above the handle if anyone has on to sell. That is on the first photo I posted. I do have an original parts book for it though.

 

Thank you everyone for all of you helpful information. Its my first classic car that I have owned and its been a dream for many years to own one. I have no real technical knowledge of how to replace anything on it so you guys are great!!!

 

Cheers Mike

[Plymouthy Adams]

back to your topic at hand...you can buy sundries for your car like tune up parts, carb kits and such, water pump, oil pump, fiel pump kits for alcohol, cam bearing, timing chain set, valve guides, O/H gaskets and like items given you have the size of block and the distributor number and carb number.  I would message a bud you can rely on for correct info to examine and relay this info to you....that way when you travel home for a visit you can carry a few items with you.....

 

the vehicle I am working hard about right now is imported from New Zealand....

[Andydodge]

Tony.........I have a spare chrome strip from a 1940 Dodge, it would be the same type but I don't know whether the length would be different, the Oz 1940 Dodges used the full length 1940 Plymouth hood but the centre hinge piece starts at the same spot that the short US 1940 hoods start at, behind the hood mascot.............if you can get the length of your chrome centre piece then we can go from there................and as I mentioned I would still NOT order any engine parts until the engine length was absolutely confirmed one way or the other by physically measuring, notwithstanding what it should be or supposed to be............lol..........regards, andyd. 

[Andydodge]

Mike......another way to tell if its an Oz built car or not may involve looking at the way the inside door handles and winders attach to their relevant mechanism......do they use a large splined setup, ie, the actual handle has a large, 5/8 diameter "male" spline that fits into an internal "female" spline....(.the OZ GM FJ/FX Holdens used the same splined setup)..............if so the car is DEFINATELY Oz assembled/made by TJ Richards,no question.........BUT.........if it has just a 3/8" square shaft coming out from the door and winder mechanism and a "female" 3/8" square internal hole in the handles then it is more than likely US or Canadian sourced.......andyd     

[eh dubya]

Andy, there's lots more differences like the roof mounted (vacuum?) wipers, one piece die cast hood side vents, vertical grille trim and top two horizontals. Canadian cars also have a different front floor section with an intermediate angle like other '39 Mopars.

[Andydodge]

I didn't notice the roof mounted wipers..........so its a North American sourced 39 Plymouth then?............andyd

[eh dubya]

Andy I think it's a Todd assembled Canadian car, I've yet to see any evidence of an Australian car badged as a Chrysler, only Chrysler-Plymouth with both badges. Another unique or rare at least Australian item is the windscreen division bar... 

[eh dubya]

Re 1940-39 vertical grille trim interchangeability I don't think it possible, they used an adapter for the '39 badge on the '40 and profile appears to differ. The hood ornaments are also very similar but different enough not to interchange.

 

[Andydodge]

All the Oz centre windscreen bars I've seen have been diecast and that pic of one you show is the only one I've seen that is not cracked or completely covered in diecast "fuzz"......I ended up making one myself from brass bar and rod in the early 70's, rechromed it looks fine over 45 yrs later.....andyd

[eh dubya]

Andy mine's a repro casting, I used the original ends and a plain one to make a pattern, it took two attempts to get it right.