Front Shock Relocation Thread help

[Ulu]

These frames are so beefy, you can certainly do it many ways.

 

I do like to weld everything on the bench instead of on the car.

I hate to make structural welds out of position unless necessary.

 

I thought I'd make a plate or L and bolt it to the frame.

Then fab the bracket, and tack weld it well to the plate, as I align the shock that last little smidgen.

 

If I want to bend it, slot the holes, lengthen/shorten, or just start over later, it will be easy to take off the frame.

And bench weld.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ulu]

On 4/3/2020 at 8:13 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

. . . . Before the shock only does one job, checks oscillation of the coil spring...

 

I don't see how this changes the shock's duties. What new job is performed after?

 

But the unsprung weight changes a little, so it's nice to get them off the knee.

Even better damping with less unsprung effect would be a stiffer shock right inside the coil spring, with the necessary mods.

 

[Plymouthy Adams]

on relocation to the chassis they are no longer tied to the upper and lower control arms where they could only damped spring oscillation...now they can check body movement....at lower speeds and less aggressive driving you so not see their short coming when pinning the UCA and LCA..and back in the day said driving conditions was the norm....

[40desoto]

On 3/19/2020 at 4:21 AM, Andydodge said:

Edward......oldguy48 replaced his sway bar with the Jeep bar......my cars sway bar is an exact copy shape wise of the original 1940/41 sway bar but 1" thicker with the ends flatened so that the adjustable links I made use bolts to attach to the bar.....heres a better pic of the one I use...........andyd

Andy, what year Jeep sway bar did you use on your 40 Dodge.  I searched a few different year Jeep and none appeared to be remotely close to my stock 1940 desoto bar.

 

[Andydodge]

The sway bar on my 1940 Dodge is NOT from a Jeep, it is a thicker copy of the original 1940 Dodge(same as 1940 Plymouth and 1941Dodge/Plymouth) sway bar that I had an Oz suspension company named K-Mac copy the exact original shape but in 1" thick bar, I had them flatten the ends(see attached pic of the sway bar end & link) so I could drill a hole and I used bolts to attach the heim jointed links....and as I'm a hotrodder I had the bar chromed 40 years ago.........lol....................from what I know of the 1940/41 models the sway bar used on the various Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto & Chryslers are the same shape or at least the 1940/41 Dodge & Plymouth ones here in Oz are and here use the same links also which are those 1.5" thick ones with a short bracket on the bottom and the bar inserted into a hole in the top..........does this make sense?........,  .Andy Douglas  

Edited April 9, 2020 by Andydodge
more info

[40desoto]

6 minutes ago, Andydodge said:

The sway bar on my 1940 Dodge is NOT from a Jeep, it is a thicker copy of the original 1940 Dodge(same as 1940 Plymouth and 1941Dodge/Plymouth) sway bar that I had an Oz suspension company named K-Mac copy the exact original shape but in 1" thick bar, I had them flatten the ends(see attached pic of the sway bar end & link) so I could drill a hole and I used bolts to attach the heim jointed links....and as I'm a hotrodder I had the bar chromed 40 years ago.........lol....................from what I know of the 1940/41 models the sway bar used on the various Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto & Chryslers are the same shape or at least the 1940/41 Dodge & Plymouth ones here in Oz are and here use the same links also which are those 1.5" thick ones with a short bracket on the bottom and the bar inserted into a hole in the top..........does this make sense?........,  .Andy Douglas  

Makes perfect sense. Thank you wonder if I can find a shop here in So. Cal that can fabricate one for me. Thanks for posting a picture for reference. 

[Andydodge]

I'd check places that do speedway, dirt track, even general race fabrication, also most hot rod fabrication shops should know of someone............the sway bar is dead flat viewed side on but does kick back at about 45degrees towards the wheels once its past the chassis bushes then as mentioned is flattened at each end to enable a 7/16th bolt to go thru.............now I had new lower shock pins or bolts turned up from I think 1" mild steel hex bar, the shock side was machined to copy the lower shock mount, the front facing end of the pin was machined to fit thru the spindle as per the original pin and machined to suit the heim joint and nut..............the link itself was also made from mild steel hex bar and threaded to suit a lock nut and heim joint......the upper or top end of the link uses a 7/16th bolt thru the heim joint and flattened sway bar end...........there would be various ways of connecting the sway bar to the spindle, I just used this method as it was the easiest way I could picture it being put together and I had access to a guy with a lathe who did the work.......and it looks "race carish" .............lol.............hope this makes sense..........andyd     

[Andydodge]

Also  when I went to the suspension place they asked me what thickness and I think I basically said something like......"what do the new cars use"...........and am pretty sure their reply was 1" is the general size that they upgrade sway bars to so I went along with 1" thick........in hindsight I think it maybe a little too thick but as my car does have the 318 poly and cast iron trans which probably add an extra 200 pounds in weight the extra sway bar thickness is o/k............tho' when I had the 41 Plymouth Coupe I intended to chase up a new sway bar for it but probably only 3/4 or 7/8th thick.............the original one that I used on the 41 Coupe which I got from a 1940 Plymouth and bolted straight on was about 9/16 or maybe 5/8th certainly not 1"........lol..........so if your car uses essentially the stock suspension etc then I'd maybe go a little thicker but not 1" ....the other thing you will have to keep in mind is that the original sway bars use a weird shaped end that is like a ball almost that is a push/press fit into the upper part of the link and a thicker bar may not work there.................which means you may end up having to fabricate something like what I did.....not impossible but it can complicate things.......lol........andyd  

[40desoto]

17 hours ago, Andydodge said:

Also  when I went to the suspension place they asked me what thickness and I think I basically said something like......"what do the new cars use"...........and am pretty sure their reply was 1" is the general size that they upgrade sway bars to so I went along with 1" thick........in hindsight I think it maybe a little too thick but as my car does have the 318 poly and cast iron trans which probably add an extra 200 pounds in weight the extra sway bar thickness is o/k............tho' when I had the 41 Plymouth Coupe I intended to chase up a new sway bar for it but probably only 3/4 or 7/8th thick.............the original one that I used on the 41 Coupe which I got from a 1940 Plymouth and bolted straight on was about 9/16 or maybe 5/8th certainly not 1"........lol..........so if your car uses essentially the stock suspension etc then I'd maybe go a little thicker but not 1" ....the other thing you will have to keep in mind is that the original sway bars use a weird shaped end that is like a ball almost that is a push/press fit into the upper part of the link and a thicker bar may not work there.................which means you may end up having to fabricate something like what I did.....not impossible but it can complicate things.......lol........andyd  

Thanks Andy, all this information is priceless. 

 

 

[windsor8]

 I did the shock relocation on my 48 Dodge Club Coupe with a 318 and R & P steering. I also have an all stock original 1941 Chrysler Windsor 4dr sedan with the addition of radial tires.

 The radials on the 41 made it drive and handle like a dream. If I had it to do over again I probably wouldn't do the shock relocation although it was no big deal.

Edited April 10, 2020 by windsor8

[Sniper]

Years ago, heck in the 80's I guess, Halibrand would do that kind of stuff.  Had them make a set of custom made torsion bars for a bud's 75 Coronet and they'd do swaybars.  Now days it appears whomever is running Halibrand is coasting on the name.

[Ulu]

On 4/8/2020 at 1:49 PM, Plymouthy Adams said:

on relocation to the chassis they are no longer tied to the upper and lower control arms where they could only damped spring oscillation...now they can check body movement....at lower speeds and less aggressive driving you so not see their short coming when pinning the UCA and LCA..and back in the day said driving conditions was the norm....

 

Don't confuse small action with no action.

 

Consider the whole car as a system.  The body cannot move in any manner without the shocks acting. 

 

Clearly the relocation provides much better control to the system, even though the eccentric load path is undesirable.

But it's not the optimal solution. The one used by 99.5% of racers:  shock inside the spring.

 

Of course the Plymouth goal was more about comfort with substantial articulation, but they changed when the freeways got going and speeds increased.

[Plymouthy Adams]

but with shock located inside the spring..the upper point is fixed to the chassis NOT the UCA......lets not confuse location inside the shock to be the same as the UCA...later and race suspensions have the shocked tied to the chassis which is then encircled by the UCA which can give a false appearance as one piece...

[Ulu]

There are all kinds of systems Plymouthy, but you are totally missing the logic.

 

It doesn’t matter either way, how you mount a shock absorber. When the body moves in relation to Earth, the shock will extend or contract.

 

If it does so, it imparts damping into the system, no matter how pitifully applied.
 

Just because that damping seems below the threshold of practicality does not mean it is nonexistent.

 

But in your defense, connecting the shock to the frame is far superior to the stock arrangement in many ways.