Plymouth Owners Club meeting

[knuckleharley]

Any of you guys going to the POC meeting in Concord,NC in Sept?

Do they have a swap meet during the event?

I plan on going,and will even join if I don't run into too many members with attitudes.

[greg g]

Got reservation at a Hotel, planning on leaving here (Central NY) Tuesday morning. Hopefully arriving in Concord on Wed PM. Couple others have mentioned going. Don C, the VanBuskirks, perhaps others. Will be driving out p15 down, taking surface roads. Plan to overnight near Roanoke, Blacksburg Va.

Most of the Plymouth folks are regular Joes. the POC has a very narrow view of how you car should be presented. The foundation of the club is to maintain the cars in "factory correct" condition. There is a swap meet listed in the activities. I attended the Vermont event year before last, and there were some items for sale. But past performance is not a predictor of future activity.

Be nice to get some forum folks out and about.

[knuckleharley]

>>the POC has a very narrow view of how you car should be presented. The foundation of the club is to maintain the cars in "factory correct" condition.<<

Well,I guess it doesn't matter if I drive the Altima because neither of my Plymouths would be welcome.

[knuckleharley]

Be nice to get some forum folks out and about.

Yeah,it would. Does this forum or anyone on it sell stuff like D-24/P-15 Tshirts?

Arthur

[BobT-47P15]

We just made our own shirts.....before the Tulsa event in June.

I think it was David Maxwell who posted a logo approved by our moderator, GTK. It can be printed off onto transfer paper, if you want to do that, then iron on at home.

Or print it off on regular paper then take to a quick print shop who can make it into a heat transfer. That's what I did. I took them a shirt, and they also ironed the transfer on after making it. Cost ended up about $15 per shirt. Get any color shirt you like. That's Johnny S from Colorado on the right.

While in Tulsa, met some fellows from the POC from the upper midwest. Were real nice guys. I think maybe a modified Plymouth is welcome at a show, but you can't enter it for the judging. Someone correct me if that's wrong information. I got a membership form in Tulsa, but have not sent it in yet. We don't have a local branch.....I think the closest is in St Louis.

[knuckleharley]

We just made our own shirts.....before the Tulsa event in June.

I think it was David Maxwell who posted a logo approved by our moderator, GTK.<<

Do you happen to have a link to the page where the photo of that logo can be downloaded? If you do I will have a couple made up and be wearing one when I go out there.

[knuckleharley]

We just made our own shirts.....before the Tulsa event in June. <<

Never mind. I just spotted it at the top of the page and saved it to my HD. I have to go to town to see the doctor on Wednesday,and I'll print it out and go hunting for a t-shirt shop while I'm there.

Thank you for pointing this out to me.

Arthur

[David Maxwell]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/bojeta/Graphics%20Projects/P15D24-for-shirtC-web.jpg

The resolution will be much higher and allow you to get a good reprint.

[knuckleharley]

Thanks MUCH,David.

Arthur

[greg g]

You can enter a midified car in POC shows if you are a POC member. You can also place a do not judge note on your car if you just want to display it. The POC judging form is downloadable from the POC website. I entered my car in the show in Vermont, with about 15 other P15's. The deal is a bit wierd as they give points for various areas of the car. However, they deduct points or do not score them if judged areas have been modified. As I have a non stock engine (P28 from a 56 Plymouth) I get no points for the engine, dual intake, not withstanding. The dual intake would have goarnered a deduction on an otherwise stock engine. I did not get any points for my interior as it is covered in non stock material. I think I even got a deduction for my paint because it is shinier than the stock paint would have been. The will deduct points for an OD trans in a car where it was not available by year. So to trophy at a POC meet you car needs to garner points for those judged items. Total points equals trophy level awards. So you might have a situation where a class will have 3 second place cars, a third place and no first place award.

The other thing that is wierd is that I believe if you showed up with a low mileage survivor with some wear and tear issues, you would probably be scored lower than the really anal, obsessive cumpulsive disorder dude, who does a bolt for bolt restoration on a trailer queen that never gets driven other than off the trailer. Why he doesn't get a deduction for having a Full Flow Oil Filter decal on his bypass filter I don't get. And why his car which is no longer treated as a car, would point higher than an actual factory condition, driven car is counter intuitive to reason.

Judging at any show is subjective, and likely clique biased. So I go to shows to meet other folks, look at the cars, and have a relaxing day. Last show I went to was the local mopar club's all mopar show. Didn't even wash the car, had bugs on the grill and windshied, got 3rd in a class of nine cars.

So I will likely enter the POC show as a Do Not Judge, and just hang with the other p15 homies.

[BobT-47P15]

I just jump in and go to the cruise-in without doing more than maybe dusting the car. A few bugs on the grille will not stop people from looking at or liking the car. Don't have time to enter very many shows.....and there are numerous of them around here all summer. My car would not score very well at a POC event, according to those rules.

Reckon this one wouldn't do so hot either.......

For sale at the Springfield swap meet this weekend.

****Just found an ebay ad for this car......seller has reduced his reserve to $15K......says he has $25 in it. That may well be......did not begin life as a convertible, but may have been a biz coupe. Seller bought the car 4 or 5 years ago from another area guy. Made some changes and did what he considered upgrades, and of course, wants more money.

[Don Coatney]

I just made my hotel reservations. I will be staying at the Marriott Fairfield Inn located in Kannapolis, NC. Lisa and I will arrive there Thursday ans head for home Sunday Morning.

With the modifications I have done to my car I will be surprised if I am allowed on the parking lot at the host hotel. But it does not matter as I am going to spend some time with friends and fellow Plymouth buffs. I am not a POC member.

I have the full flow oil filter decal on my full flow oil filter so if I were to enter the judging I should not be docked for having the wrong decal.

[Norm's Coupe]

You can enter a midified car in POC shows if you are a POC member. You can also place a do not judge note on your car if you just want to display it. The POC judging form is downloadable from the POC website. I entered my car in the show in Vermont, with about 15 other P15's. The deal is a bit wierd as they give points for various areas of the car. However, they deduct points or do not score them if judged areas have been modified. As I have a non stock engine (P28 from a 56 Plymouth) I get no points for the engine, dual intake, not withstanding. The dual intake would have goarnered a deduction on an otherwise stock engine. I did not get any points for my interior as it is covered in non stock material. I think I even got a deduction for my paint because it is shinier than the stock paint would have been. The will deduct points for an OD trans in a car where it was not available by year. So to trophy at a POC meet you car needs to garner points for those judged items. Total points equals trophy level awards. So you might have a situation where a class will have 3 second place cars, a third place and no first place award.

The other thing that is wierd is that I believe if you showed up with a low mileage survivor with some wear and tear issues, you would probably be scored lower than the really anal, obsessive cumpulsive disorder dude, who does a bolt for bolt restoration on a trailer queen that never gets driven other than off the trailer. Why he doesn't get a deduction for having a Full Flow Oil Filter decal on his bypass filter I don't get. And why his car which is no longer treated as a car, would point higher than an actual factory condition, driven car is counter intuitive to reason.

Judging at any show is subjective, and likely clique biased. So I go to shows to meet other folks, look at the cars, and have a relaxing day. Last show I went to was the local mopar club's all mopar show. Didn't even wash the car, had bugs on the grill and windshied, got 3rd in a class of nine cars.

So I will likely enter the POC show as a Do Not Judge, and just hang with the other p15 homies.

For me, there is only one judge who can judge my car, and that's me. I don't really care what some judge at a car show thinks. Car show judges are like movie critics, food critics, etc. as far as I'm concerned. I don't pay any attention to any of them. If I like it, then that's all that counts. I've gone to restaurants and movies that got bad reviews by a so called professional critic and loved them. The same with cars, that judge (critic) is just another person giving his opinion. He doesn't always agree with what other individuals think, but who really cares.

I don't understand people who will change something they've done on their cars to please someone else. Does that same person become a different person if someone doesn't like his/her personality? I've always lived by one rule. I'm me, and if someone doesn't like the package, they don't have to, but I'm not changing for them. The same applies to my car, home and everything else I do in life.

There is one other thing I'd like to say while on the soap box, that is directed to anyone judging a car show, etc. If a car club says that they want the car to be all original, like it came from the factory to get points, they should go all the way with that statement. That statement should also mean. Not only should the car be restored to it's original factory options, BUT also it can be driven from Atlantic coast to the Pacific coast. If it can't be it should not get any points because it's really no longer a car, because ALL cars were built to be driven, not hauled on a trailer.

[Mr. Belvedere]

Excellent point Norm, but let me join you on the soap box if I may for just a moment. Just know what the clubs standards and mission statement is and accept it for what it is, and don't get mad or get your feelings hurt if they don't give your modified ride good marks or just don't bother getting it judged. I never understand why when people enter their modified cars for judging when they know that everything is supposed to be stock and then get miffed because it did not fair too well. The POC people are very friendly down to earth people and thats what I like most about the club.

[knuckleharley]

greg g wrote: >>You can enter a midified car in POC shows if you are a POC member. You can also place a do not judge note on your car if you just want to display it. <<

Do not judge is the way I would go. I have about as much use for show cars as I do malignant tumors.

>> The deal is a bit wierd <<

IMHO,more than a bit. Even more than a bunch. The people who own and judge show cars are people in desperate need of a hobby.

>>So I will likely enter the POC show as a Do Not Judge, and just hang with the other p15 homies.<<

Yeah,that sounds like a plan I could get behind. I might even try to talk a few of them into taking me for a ride.

[knuckleharley]

.... BUT also it can be driven from Atlantic coast to the Pacific coast. If it can't be it should not get any points because it's really no longer a car' date=' because ALL cars were built to be driven, not hauled on a trailer.[/b']

Norm,I used to have a friend that had a bumper sticker made up that said,"Only junk and race cars belong on trailers." That pretty much sums it up for me,too.

I will add a couple of small notes,though. I am one of those people that will run right past a award-winning street rod or restored car without even looking at it to slobber all over a original project car on a trailer.

The other point that as much as I love perfection,I would rather see a car that the owner painted in his driveway using a Electro-Lux vacuum cleaner (Ok,so now you know how old I am) that has a few runs and boo-boos in the paint that to see a car where somebody just wrote a check for a 5 thousand dollar pro paint job. It shows a personal connection to the car and his love for it,rather than just a connection to a trophy and bragging rights. IMHO,cars were meant to be driven and enjoyed,and unless you have a car like a Duesenberg that is worth a insane amoutn of money and can't be replaced,you should drive it. If you don't enjoy driving it,you should sell it to somebody that does and find another hobby.

[Normspeed]

I gotta share this story, it's true and funnier than fiction to me. At one of the few shows that I paid to enter, I was parked with my Suburban and teardrop right next to a beautiful fully restored Plymouth Suburban and teardrop. When the two judges came down the row, they must have spent a good 10 to 15 minutes with the owner of the restored rig, man they were all over that thing and could not ask enough questions. These were the guys with clipboards and detailed judging sheets.

When they moved on to my car I greeted them and immediately I noticed one judge looking past me in the direction of my car. I turned to see what caught his interest. He said, "Is that a restroom down the hill? I really gotta pee!" I started to verify that it was, but he was already walking away. I turned to the other remaining judge in case he had any questions about my rig, and he too was already walking away towards the next car in line. I noticed he had already placed the little sticker on my headlight that indicated the team had "judged" my car. Wow, these guys must be GOOD!.

By the way, neither my old rustbucket nor the beautiful resto got an award at that show. :D I had a great time anyhow since I had no expectations of winning awards or trophies.

PS, I was there with some nice folks from the POC but this was not a POC show but a large rod, custom and resto show.

[Norm's Coupe]

Excellent point Norm, but let me join you on the soap box if I may for just a moment. Just know what the clubs standards and mission statement is and accept it for what it is, and don't get mad or get your feelings hurt if they don't give your modified ride good marks or just don't bother getting it judged. I never understand why when people enter their modified cars for judging when they know that everything is supposed to be stock and then get miffed because it did not fair too well. The POC people are very friendly down to earth people and thats what I like most about the club.

I will agree that everyone I've met from the POC are just as you describe. I've also met and have friends in the Ford V8 Club and they are the same. I wasn't talking about the people in those or any other original type club. I was just pointing out the contradicting "By Laws" of such clubs. Part of those by laws saying the car MUST be restored to original, and that is their goal. That's all well and good, but to be an original restored car, it must run like original. That means driving them like they were meant to be driven and not hauled around on a trailer or hidden in someone's garage or storage building. If it doesn't run well or is not safe enough to be driven anywhere, that car should have points deducted.

As mentioned, I'll never get mad about my car not being judged or not winning a trophy. The only trophy that means anything, I already have. That's the car built the way I want it. That's why I'll never enter a judged show of any kind.

For what it's worth, I like cars both ways, both original or modified. I also like and respect a car that has been done by the owner more than by dollars. Even if the car isn't perfect when done by the owner, at least he did it. If I wanted a hobby that didn't require anything from me but dollars, I'd collect stamps instead. I've met lots of people at car shows that know nothing about the cars they own. When ask, they say I don't know, I bought it that way, or I had so and so build it for me. That's not a true car hobby person in my view, that's just someone who collects stuff.

[Norm's Coupe]

Norm,I used to have a friend that had a bumper sticker made up that said,"Only junk and race cars belong on trailers." That pretty much sums it up for me,too.

I will add a couple of small notes,though. I am one of those people that will run right past a award-winning street rod or restored car without even looking at it to slobber all over a original project car on a trailer.

The other point that as much as I love perfection,I would rather see a car that the owner painted in his driveway using a Electro-Lux vacuum cleaner (Ok,so now you know how old I am) that has a few runs and boo-boos in the paint that to see a car where somebody just wrote a check for a 5 thousand dollar pro paint job. It shows a personal connection to the car and his love for it,rather than just a connection to a trophy and bragging rights. IMHO,cars were meant to be driven and enjoyed,and unless you have a car like a Duesenberg that is worth a insane amoutn of money and can't be replaced,you should drive it. If you don't enjoy driving it,you should sell it to somebody that does and find another hobby.

That's my feelings too. When I go to a swap meet, car show combination I would rather look at the non restored cars for sale than the show cars.

As far as the Electo-Lux, guess I'm about as old as you are. By the way, they do still make them.

[Mr. Belvedere]

Alot of POC guys have modified cars as well so they are quite accepting of other set-ups the only place they draw the line is in the judging. And your right, a trailered car that never sees any real use is useless, and its always more interesting to talk to homegrown backyard restorers than those who pay for everything to be done. Hotrods, customs and originals are all interesting to look at, its a big tent with room for all tastes and styles!

[Johnny S]

I guess there is enough room for a lot of options. I'm ok with pretty much all of them....up to a point. As for me .... I like stock, or largely stock original cars whether they are driven or not (I prefer driven). I still really like to see very well kept, museum quality, original cars even if they aren't driven. And, I'm ok with some modifications, particularly if they are era type modifications, safety modifications or ideas that make maintaining the car easier. But, anyone who puts a SBC in a Mopar has gone too way far to suit my personal tastes. I pretty much don't even look at those cars anymore at the shows. Now, that's not to say that they aren't nice cars, driven by nice people. I know they still take a huge amount of money, creativity and sweat to make them look good. But, they don't suit my fancy and to me the car might as well have been crushed. But, that said, I don't feel quite so badly when the drive train has been replaced with a Mopar drive train with some obvious effort to "stay within the family".

Now, there was a time when that wasn't true even for me. I really liked the look of the street-rodded P15 about 15 years ago. But many of the street rods today have become too much like cookie cutter cars IMHO. That's where working towards an award for maintaining or re-building an original car makes me feel good today. There are standards for originality, they can be documented and these standards help one to fairly judge an original car. And, not many people are willing to "stop" at being original.

POC is upfront with their credo about being a car club that caters to original cars. I still joined and have enjoyed the interactions with the members I've met. I personally think POC should add a category or two of mildly/modestly modified drivers to help encourage keeping old Mopars on the road and then figure out the standards to judge them separately from the original cars. Nothing says you can't have another category and keeping more Mopars on the road and under the shade-trees is in all of our best interests. However, I would start by saying NO SBC's ALLOWED.....that is if I were setting the standards up. Only Mopar drivetrains end to end. And, even that would find detractors who somehow find it within themselves to actually like the SBC. Go figure.

But, who knows, even my ideas of what's correct might change in another 15 years again.....hopefully I'll be around to see what's happening then.

Remember the mantra ---- "Plymouth Builds Great Cars"

[Don Coatney]

Only Mopar drivetrains end to end.

Guess I cant join that group as I have a cheby transmission.

[Johnny S]

Maybe not Don ..... but the T-5 is still pretty darn innovative. Does Mopar have anything that compares?

[james curl]

I believe that some of the early four cylinder Dakota's used a version of the T-5 or a copy from M.H.I. I saw what I thought was a T-5 on the shelf at the transmission shop and he said that the owner of an early Dakota had picked it up from an auto recycler and that it was sold for a V6 vehicle but he said that it was for a I/4. He was waiting for the correct transmission.

[Young Ed]

Weird. According to my dakota shop manual the 4 and 6cyl use the same one atleast in 94. If I stumble across a cheap dakota 5spd I may try a swap like this. I know the tranny in my 94 has sure held up to some abuse!