A 833 Trans Transplant Thread

[55 Fargo]

Okay so about to embark on my Chrysler New process A 833 trans transplant.

This unit is from a truck, with a final drive ratio of .71 in 4th, and no ridiculous 4.03 or even a 3.76 for 1st like an S10 T5.

Being a .71 overdrive, highly likely well guaranteed it will not play nice with my present 3.23 , at 65 70 mph, it will be between 1800- 1950 rpm, probaly not so good in hills or any head wind.

Cruising below 2000 rpm, may or may not be that great for the engine, and it may lug and bog at times.

I am already fully aware that it makes peak torque at 1200 rpm, so am a little confused as to why it should not cruise on the hghway at 1800 to 2000 RPM.

I would foresee downshifting back to 3rd a lot at times, no big deal I suppose.

I will be swapping my rear gear to 3.55 or better yet 3.73.

Once I begin this swap, it will be fully documented, it should be easier and smoother than a T5 swap, no bell housing to be pulled, no holes to drill and tap, just swap clutch disc, and bolt on adapter and trans, and the usual cut new hole, and do a driveshaft.

[The Oil Soup]

I'm interested in this swap for my truck. What vehicle is the A833 trans from?

[55 Fargo]

Here ya go "Oil Soup", Tim's blog answers most of the questions.

In you area, should be lots, start looking on Craigslist or Kijiji, for a 1975-86 Chrysler A 833 Overdrive, these came in Aspens, Volares, Pickup Trucks  and Vans.

 

 

[55 Fargo]

Hey all, been close to 4 months, so figured I would "bump" this thread, and keep it alive and breathing.

I have been extremely busy since April, with work, and family commitments, so unfortunately have not tackled the A833 swap, the trans is ready, have my drive shaft donor.

I need to have my clutch rebuilt, and a new disc made, which is being done locally.

Most if not all of the A833 adapter plates were and are sold, and many conversions  have been completed, most if not all of those, are by folks who do not hang around internet web sites.

I can almost share the sentiment, but some time ago GTK did share with me he and many members are looking forward to the swap and its process.

So at this point, I may do this swap very shortly, or it may be shelved for a little while, and the only reason I might shelf it temporarily, is to rebuilt my 265 engine, as my 228 is tired, has leaky cylinders, and do not want to do a trans swap full well knowing the engine needs to be pulled for replacement, but who knows, will make a decision real soon.

So those interested, whether you are contemplating the A833 swap, or are in the T5 camp and want to see the end results, buckle up, and hang tight, it won't be long........

The Fargo, at sunset, what a beautiful thing....

 

[Merle Coggins]

So why not rebuild the 265 and adapt the A833 to that one while it's accessible and easy to work with. You'll likely get better picture opportunities too. Then you can just do a power train swap and be good to go.

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Merle Coggins said:

So why not rebuild the 265 and adapt the A833 to that one while it's accessible and easy to work with. You'll likely get better picture opportunities too. Then you can just do a power train swap and be good to go.

Well of course thats the most likely plan.

Decisions to be made this fall.

[55 Fargo]

UPDATE 2018-01-03

Okay so another New Year has begun and its been quite a while since I updated this thread.

Been super busy with many other things, do now getting some time for this project.

Dropped off my A833 to a local trans guru yesterday.

This gent has a super large home shop he us a drag racer and predominantlya Chevy guy gor that stuff.

Last night got a call from him, he informed me all looks good but front inputshaft bearing and thrust washes seals gaskets etc.

He stated the gears looked great.

So next step is the clutch, but first have to pull trans and clutch from truck for rebuilding unless i can source new stuff first.

My clutch is not old so might just swap friction discs, as it all gets pulled again for the 265 swap.

Will post pics soon .

Circle the wagons T5ers A833 boys are riding into town.

[Don Coatney]

2 hours ago, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

UPDATE 2018-01-03

Okay so another New Year has begun and its been quite a while since I updated this thread.

Been super busy with many other things, do now getting some time for this project.

Dropped off my A833 to a local trans guru yesterday.

This gent has a super large home shop he us a drag racer and predominantlya Chevy guy gor that stuff.

Last night got a call from him, he informed me all looks good but front inputshaft bearing and thrust washes seals gaskets etc.

He stated the gears looked great.

So next step is the clutch, but first have to pull trans and clutch from truck for rebuilding unless i can source new stuff first.

My clutch is not old so might just swap friction discs, as it all gets pulled again for the 265 swap.

Will post pics soon .

Circle the wagons T5ers A833 boys are riding into town.

Good to see you back on this project. I hope to learn how this goes. Is the transmission complicated internally? I stripped my transmission down to the bare case and installed new parts myself as required. Was it expensive to have this professionally done? What will you be using for a pilot bushing? Also will your throw out bearing holder work on this transmission?

 

[55 Fargo]

Oh just got another call from the my transmission guy, the kits is about $150 and labor about 150, so $300, and I don't have to play around with it.

This trans is typical of most older 4 spds, not very complicated, but if you have never done a rebuild on them, its a learning curve, I circumvented this curve this time....LOL

he emphatically assured me this is a very robust, quality built trans, and not light duty as the NWC S10 T5s, but certainly not as robust as the 426 Hemi cast iron A833.

Stay tuned, will update as progress ensues.

I need the 10 1/2 inch 23 spline friction disc, and new pressure plate assembly, will be using stock pilot bushing and throwout bearing.

Its far less complicated than a T5 swap, as it does not involve and drilling tapping on the bell housing etc...

[55 Fargo]

Okay so picked up the A833 trans today, complete rebuild kit installed as well as new backup lamp switch.

The gears and shafts were in very good shape and it was quite clean inside, a very rugged built trans was what the Tech stated.

This "hogwash" that parts will be hard to find, and super expensive, all hogwash.

The rebuild kit, gaskets seals both bearings, syncros etc, was local in Winnipeg for $175, thats only 50 bucks more than in the USA from Jamie Passon or Brewers.

The backup lamp switch Standard, 12 bucks at Rock Auto was $30 in Winnipeg at my jobbers price, no deal there and big mark up for our market.

So all in all trans is back and ready, the shifter is nice and tight and in good shape too.

Stay tuned as we progress...

[greg g]

What are the gear ratio in the box as it is set up?

[55 Fargo]

11 hours ago, greg g said:

What are the gear ratio in the box as it is set up?

Here you go Greg,

1st 3.08

2nd 1.68

3rd 1

4th .73

This and more details are on my blog as well as Tim.Ks blog.

The spread is very close to a 4 spd truck minus the granny low and adding .73 overdrive.

Tje 426 hemi and muscle car A833 4spds non OD have higher ratios in 1st and tighter gear spreads..

[Merle Coggins]

Fred,

Don't you already have 3.55 gears in your truck? Why do you need an OD trans? It would seem like the final gearing may be a bit low for a good cruising RPM, and keep the engine in a happy power range.

[greg g]

Have you run a calculator on those ratios, your tires and your rear end gears?

[oldasdirt]

On 1/3/2018 at 1:07 PM, Don Coatney said:

Good to see you back on this project. I hope to learn how this goes. Is the transmission complicated internally? I stripped my transmission down to the bare case and installed new parts myself as required. Was it expensive to have this professionally done? What will you be using for a pilot bushing? Also will your throw out bearing holder work on this transmission?

 

 

 

You use the original pilot bushing and the original throw out bearing.   Its only the need to change the clutch to have the fine spline.  The A833 is no more or no less complicated than your t5 transmission to rebuild. All of the A833's have a standard gear ratio where your t5 can have over 100 combinations.  Its actually amazing how easy the A833 conversion is beyond the loss of the hand brake.

[55 Fargo]

4 hours ago, Merle Coggins said:

Fred,

Don't you already have 3.55 gears in your truck? Why do you need an OD trans? It would seem like the final gearing may be a bit low for a good cruising RPM, and keep the engine in a happy power range.

Hey Merle not yet on the 3.55 and i could see going to 3.73 or 3.90 even.

Why the swap, well 2 reasons for sure.

The T98 Acme while being a brutish trans has a useless granny 1st gear.

My trans has some chewed up gears and getting parts for this trans is not that simple.

The shift gate is typical truck and mine is a bit sloppy too.

The A833 has a synchro all gears, shifts nice and has a .73 overdrive 4th.

Even with my 3.23 diff, my current tire size it would be spinning at 2600 at 65 mph with the overdrive about 1850.

Now 1850 is a tad low and most likely could be an issue in high wind or long steep climbs.

The good news i can shift into 3rd and be at 2600 rpm with my current diff gearing plenty enough steam for wind and hills.

With 3.73 gears I will be at 2850 rpm in 3rd and 2200 in 4th overdrive.

At 70 mph 2275 in 4th overdrive.

My current tired 228 might also be an issue but the fresh beefed up 265 wont.

3 hours ago, greg g said:

Have you run a calculator on those ratios, your tires and your rear end gears?

Yes, Yes with 3.23 gears 1850 to 1900 at 65 mph.

Too low for windage and hills.

But these engines are max torque at 1600 RPM although at 1900 RPM would be below the powerband and most likely not drawing enough vacuum.

I realize you run with 4.11s and yes the engines can handle 3000 RPMs all day if in good shape.

But even at 2200 rpm versus your 3000 rpm the fuel economy and engine heat difference would be noticeable.

Yes it can run at higher rpms but what for if i can change it.

Your car with an R10 would perform well in town as it does, but you could cruise 70 to 75 mph on the freeways instead of 55 to 60 mph.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[55 Fargo]

Okay so next step, will be pulling the old T98 Acme 4 spd trans, will see what size the clutch is and get another.

Once the trans is in place, can measure my donor drive shaft (1977 Dodge Van), with 30 spline count, this will need to be cut, and  new U-joints to be installed etc.

Last step will be to hook up to my Mopar 8 1/2 rear diff ebrakes, not sure which way Im going with this yet.........

[Adam H P15 D30]

On 1/6/2018 at 6:36 AM, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Here you go Greg,

1st 3.08

2nd 1.68

3rd 1

4th .73

This and more details are on my blog as well as Tim.Ks blog.

The spread is very close to a 4 spd truck minus the granny low and adding .73 overdrive.

Tje 426 hemi and muscle car A833 4spds non OD have higher ratios in 1st and tighter gear spreads..

 

That is a very large 1-2 split and may present more of an issue than your final drive ratio.  A 5 speed would put another ratio between...

Edited January 8, 2018 by Adam H P15 D30

[Adam H P15 D30]

On 1/3/2018 at 11:14 AM, 55 Fargo Spitfire said:

Oh just got another call from the my transmission guy, the kits is about $150 and labor about 150, so $300, and I don't have to play around with it.

This trans is typical of most older 4 spds, not very complicated, but if you have never done a rebuild on them, its a learning curve, I circumvented this curve this time....LOL

he emphatically assured me this is a very robust, quality built trans, and not light duty as the NWC S10 T5s, but certainly not as robust as the 426 Hemi cast iron A833.

Stay tuned, will update as progress ensues.

I need the 10 1/2 inch 23 spline friction disc, and new pressure plate assembly, will be using stock pilot bushing and throwout bearing.

Its far less complicated than a T5 swap, as it does not involve and drilling tapping on the bell housing etc...

 

I completely understand wanting to use the most robust parts possible but T5's lived in 10 second Mustangs.  Also, how tough of a trans do we need behind our flatheads?  I would still be concerned with that 1-2 gear split of the 833.  Reminds me of my 2-3 split on my fluid drive 3 speed trans, I think that why George Asche installs a "fast second" in a lot of 3 speeds, closer gear splits.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Adam H P15 D30

[Jeff Balazs]

7 minutes ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 

That is a very large 1-2 split and my present more of an issue than your final drive ratio.  A 5 speed would put another ratio between...

Agreed. After more than 2 years of daily use I am convinced that a close ratio 4 speed w/o overdrive would make for a much better set up. The 3.55 rear end I put in my truck lets me cruise at 65-70 just fine. I would much rather have a closer spread of 4 instead of the spread between 2nd and 4th I currently have with my 4 speed FD tranny. Add in the full synchros these trannys have and that would be the perfect combination for my truck.

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 

I completely understand wanting to use the most robust parts possible but T5's lived in 10 second Mustangs.  Also, how tough of a trans do we need behind our flatheads?  I would still be concerned with that 1-2 gear split of the 833.  Reminds me of my 2-3 split on my fluid drive 3 speed trans, I think that why George Asche installs a "fast second" in a lot of 3 speeds, closer gear splits.

Its the same split as my T98 a, no issues, the same A833 trans was used with slant 6s for many years again no issues.

Adam the car 3 spd splits were always a bit tighter than a truck trans, but agin the A833 was used in Volares, Aspens, Vans and Trucks with slant 6s and no issues..

Now when we talk about "Muscle" cars, Jamie Passon has gearing for those in a much tighter spread between 1st and 2nd, this is for racing and all out performance when you want all the power you can get.

Go and view my You Tube video on this very topic, even with my 3.23 gears I have no issues with a 3.08 2ndand shifting into 3rd at 25 mph and again at 40-45 mph.

Now here an example of a really poor gear spread, it is the early version of a NWC S 10 T5,

1st - 4.03 2nd - 2.37 3rd - 1.49 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.86 , this spread sucks with any diff in the 3.55 to 4.11 range, he11 you won't get across an intersection without shifting from 1st to 2nd, in fact why bother with 1st it becomes another granny low.

Someone I know personally in my area has this tans in a 1932 250 powered Chrysler car, with 3.90 rear gears, he routinely starts off in 2nd gear.

I road with him, and while doing this results in a 4 spd trans, shifting from 2nd to 3 rd results in a good RPM drop, the  only slight plus might be he can get to a slightly higher speed in 2nd gear.

Now not sure how you deduced this on the A833 gear spread or even my current T98, but it couldn't be further from the truth.

1 hour ago, Jeff Balazs said:

Agreed. After more than 2 years of daily use I am convinced that a close ratio 4 speed w/o overdrive would make for a much better set up. The 3.55 rear end I put in my truck lets me cruise at 65-70 just fine. I would much rather have a closer spread of 4 instead of the spread between 2nd and 4th I currently have with my 4 speed FD tranny. Add in the full synchros these trannys have and that would be the perfect combination for my truck.

Jeff

Jeff comparing the fluid drive might not be a good comparison, as they are sucked for off the line power at the best of times.

Now your truck is quite heavy, well at least compared to mine, you have a small stock what 218 or 230?, again not a lot of power as compared to a built 230 or later 250/265s.

 

You have the big truck trans, with a useless granny low, works okay I take it with 3.55s,  your combination with a NWC S10 as I have described would not be that great the later type might be better.

I am not trying to convince anyone on the A833 swap, in fact do not care too. I have this trans, and have owned T5s, as described, and the T5 does not hold a candle to the quality and ruggedness of the A833 in the OD lighter version and certainly no in the cat iron non overdrive version which is is in the T10 and Muncie rock crusher category.

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[Adam H P15 D30]

For the most part the closer the gear ratios are, the better the driveability.  To each their own

The T5 you mention above is the one that should be avoided, there are a gazillion others out there with many ratios so find one that suits your needs.  This isn't a one size fits all situation.  You can even mix and match between manufacturers which makes the possibilities almost endless.

I wasn't knocking your 833 data, choice or install in any way, just raising a point or 2.

I can't agree with you on your T5 quality statement.  There are many, many out there and they will go hundreds of thousands of miles so the high quality of the product has been proven over and over.  Ruggedness?  How rugged does it have to be to hold up to 150HP and 200Lb/ft of torque?  I would think a singer sewing machine would be up to the task...

Edited January 8, 2018 by Adam H P15 D30

[55 Fargo]

1 minute ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

For the most part the closer the gear ratios are, the better the driveability.  To each their own

The T5 you mention above is the one that should be avoided, there are a gazillion others out there with many ratios so find one that suits your needs.  This isn't a one size fits all situation.  You can even mix and match between manufacturers which makes the possibilities almost endless.

I wasn't knocking your 833 data, choice or install in any way, just raising a point or 2.

No Adam did not think you were, but in a T5 having a tighter gear spread is great for weaker low torque engines like a GM 4 cyl.

Now there are 2 standard NWC T5 gear ratios, in the trans with a shuifter mid position and a non electronic speed, Im aware there are many others, but these 2 spreads are the bulk of most these swaps, and those who may no be aware should beware, and know what they have. Now the T5 gears spread I mention might be okay with a 3.08 rear axle.

Here is the other NWC early choice,

1st - 3.76 2nd - 2.18 3rd - 1.41 4th - 1.00 5th - 0.72
Again with this trans, you might very well be able to start in 1st gear with a diff, in the 3.90 to 4.11 range, and shifting very soon, who wants that. with 3.55 or 3.08 gears it would be much better, to each their own.

I can full attest that the A833 or even my T98A gear spread works great , with a  fairly high torque designed engine...

[55 Fargo]

1 hour ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

For the most part the closer the gear ratios are, the better the driveability.  To each their own

The T5 you mention above is the one that should be avoided, there are a gazillion others out there with many ratios so find one that suits your needs.  This isn't a one size fits all situation.  You can even mix and match between manufacturers which makes the possibilities almost endless.

I wasn't knocking your 833 data, choice or install in any way, just raising a point or 2.

I can't agree with you on your T5 quality statement.  There are many, many out there and they will go hundreds of thousands of miles so the high quality of the product has been proven over and over.  Ruggedness?  How rugged does it have to be to hold up to 150HP and 200Lb/ft of torque?  I would think a singer sewing machine would be up to the task...

Adam, they do  not compare to quality and ruggedness, and this is not just about slamming gears and mega torque explosions off the line, but quality and ruggedness in parts and components, nothing unusual about that.

The NWC T5 out of an S10 is good to maybe 250 ft lbs of torque, has no positive gear shift stops, is a light duty trans in a light duty vehicle.

You don't have to agree, no problem there...

Edited January 8, 2018 by 55 Fargo Spitfire

[oldasdirt]

9 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 

I completely understand wanting to use the most robust parts possible but T5's lived in 10 second Mustangs.  Also, how tough of a trans do we need behind our flatheads?  I would still be concerned with that 1-2 gear split of the 833.  Reminds me of my 2-3 split on my fluid drive 3 speed trans, I think that why George Asche installs a "fast second" in a lot of 3 speeds, closer gear splits.

Honestly comparing this to a fluid drive is like comparing apples to bananas it really is.    The fast 2nd your referring to is a 1940 tranny were 2nd is  1.55  instead of 1:83.    

 

But  think you and many miss, 1st the t5 trannys come in something around 100 versions.   I did a quick check in my AAMCO reference guide.   Would you be surprised to know there

are actually  21  different t5s for the Mustangs and I just did a quick look at Camaros and there seemed to be as many or more.

 

1352-246	Ford 1994 Mustang 5.0 V8 WC			Y		3.35	1.99	1.33	1.00	0.75
1352-238			Ford Mustang 3.8 V6 WC								V			3.35	1.93	1.29	1.00	0.72
1352-208		Ford 1992 5.0L Mustang WC													3.35	1.99	1.33	1.00	0.68
1352-209		Ford 1992 2.3L Mustang WC										X			3.97	2.34	1.48	1.00	0.79

 

1352-015	GM 1983 Camaro/Firebird 2.8 V6					E		3.50	2.14	1.39	1.00	0.86
1352-054					GM 1984 Camaro/Firebird 2.5 L4							K					3.76				2.18				1.42				1.00				0.72
1352-061				GM 1984 Camaro/Firebird 2.8 V6								E						3.50				2.14				1.39				1.00				0.78
1352-071			GM 1985 Camaro/Firebird 2.8 V6											P						4.03				2.27				1.49				1.00				0.76
1352-245		GM 1994 Camaro/Firebird V6 WC											Z						3.75				2.19				1.41				1.00				0.72
1352-246		Ford 1994 Mustang 5.0 V8 WC											Y						3.35				1.99				1.33				1.00				0.68
1352-247		GM 1996 Camaro/Firebird V6 WC											Z						3.75				2.19				1.41				1.00				0.72

 

Lots of these configurations seem to be quite the jump from 1 to 2.  As well the more robust t5s that were  into the Camaro and Mustang  are far from inexpensive.

Not to get into there is way more work than the A833 based on the documentation I have seen from guys like Don C.   

 

9 hours ago, Adam H P15 D30 said:

 

That is a very large 1-2 split and may present more of an issue than your final drive ratio.  A 5 speed would put another ratio between...

 

No more than  for Mustang (see above) and unfortunately  there are t5 splits that are absolutely terrible. The another ratio inbetween your referencing is often to compensate for lower hp and torque engines.  I realize there are lots of higher hp engines running t5 transmissions but even some of those, you may be very surprised to actually look at the specific splits.

 Yes you can start spending money and changing the gears in the t5. 

On the A833 there is no issue running behind a flathead mopar. I have run an a833 behind a flathead for several years.  On the stock Mopar 3 speed as a reference, the splits are  1st....2.57.  2nd...1.83, 3rd...1.0
 

Edited January 9, 2018 by oldasdirt