Iskenderian Cam

[Presride]

I have a new, old stock Iskenderian Cam for a Mopar flathead 6 with a lift of .435 and a duration of 266 degrees.  I found it listed in an old Iskenderian catalog as a grind for use on an oval track.  Is this Cam too much for the street?  

[wayfarer]

...could be used... but you will need other changes, most notably more compression. What is listed for overlap and centerline?

[timkingsbury]

17 hours ago, Presride said:

I have a new, old stock Iskenderian Cam for a Mopar flathead 6 with a lift of .435 and a duration of 266 degrees.  I found it listed in an old Iskenderian catalog as a grind for use on an oval track.  Is this Cam too much for the street?

Its too wild for the street and has an issue with creating vacuum.  That pattern was modified by Iskenderian to  make his #1023 cam for the 1/2 mile an long tracks dropping the duration to 250 degrees and its pretty wild for the street. tech specs  -  intake opens at 20 degrees and closes at 50 degrees, and exhaust opens at 57 degrees and closes at 13 degrees,   Duration .250  and he reduced the lift.

I run a modified version of the pattern you have,  in my 1949 Plymouth  running the 25 1/2"  big block-  Tech info - intake open 20 degrees closes at 58,  exhaust opens at 58 and closes at 20 degrees.  258 duration .435 lift.  Its a bit lumpy but will spin north of 6000 rpm.

Of course it depends on what you are planning and going to be doing, but one thing is sure, that cam you need to have a well built engine because it is going to really test the upper limits of the engine.   Back in its day, that cam came for both the USA small block with offset rods/crank  and the Canadian Big Block.  Both engines had a pretty short fuse using it, but the small blocks more so.

Its definitely a great and cool find, just short of making a vintage long track stock car, I am not sure it has a lot of viability.

Tim

 

[Presride]

I intend to drive the truck on the street, want it to go down the interstate at 65 or 70 for an all day long drive, get down on it now and then and want it to sound "bad" even if it's not.  What are the specifications for the Cam grind which you consider the best to operate under these circumstances and limitations? Who do you recommend to grind the Cam?  

I also intend to put a borg-Warner T-5 and a Mopar eight and three-quarters rear behind it with 3.55 gears.  I am currently in the process of installing a Mustang II front suspension.  (That's another story.  A universal kit will not work with this frame.  Will put that in another thread.)

Other modifications include dual carbs on a Fenton intake,  exhaust headers and an HEI ignition.  Have already gotten all this gear from Langdon's Stovebolt 6.  (Got the Fenton intake on eBay.) I also have an Edgy aluminum head which will raise the compression to 9:1.  (I think I'm correct on the compression.)

i also intend to make modifications to the oiling system.  Also for another thread.

 

[Don Coatney]

I have installed a Desoto 255 CI flathead engine in my Plymouth P-15. I have installed a edgy reground cam (240 duration @ .410 lift) in my  engine coupled to a T-5 and a 3.55/1 differential. I have dual carburetors, dual exhaust, and a dual point distributor. I have driven over 40,000 miles with this combination. I can cruse at 70 MPH all day long with the engine turning around 2200 RPM's in overdrive. Fun thing with the T-5 is passing someone on the interstate in 4th gear at 70 MPH with the dual Smithies singing and shift into 5th just as I am along side them so they can hear the RPM reduction.

 

[timkingsbury]

53 minutes ago, Presride said:

I intend to drive the truck on the street, want it to go down the interstate at 65 or 70 for an all day long drive, get down on it now and then and want it to sound "bad" even if it's not.  What are the specifications for the Cam grind which you consider the best to operate under these circumstances and limitations? Who do you recommend to grind the Cam?

I also intend to put a borg-Warner T-5 and a Mopar eight and three-quarters rear behind it with 3.55 gears.  I am currently in the process of installing a Mustang II front suspension.  (That's another story.  A universal kit will not work with this frame.  Will put that in another thread.)

Other modifications include dual carbs on a Fenton intake,  exhaust headers and an HEI ignition.  Have already gotten all this gear from Langdon's Stovebolt 6.  (Got the Fenton intake on eBay.) I also have an Edgy aluminum head which will raise the compression to 9:1.  (I think I'm correct on the compression.)

i also intend to make modifications to the oiling system.  Also for another thread.

 

 Hi Presride -

With all due respect there are too many variables and too many unknowns to recommend a cam grind for you.  From a t5 which can range so widely in gear splits, with a gear set that is reasonably high requiring torque. The mustang suspension or HEI have zero to do with anything related to the cam. The edgy head tells me you have a small block engine and the low carb mount of a fenton means you are already going to be starved for torque and escalated RPM if you used a stock cam.The fenton headers will definitely let it breath better. What cfm and what carbs you use are a factor and hopefully you didn't go for the carter weber trap, although like what bore you have and whether your using heavy 4 ring pistons or lighter weight 3 ring forged pistons wont factor what cam grind you should use.  In terms of where to get the cam, as much  as I could help, reading through your plan I would wonder why your not getting your cam from Earl "Edgy" Edgerton who made your head?  That is where I would likely suggest you going.

But to your original question, I now have enough information to be very confident to say that cam is not what you will want for your project.

Best of luck.

Tim

[bones44]

Tim, I enjoy reading your knowledgeable input and your blogs, but Earl makes both short and long heads.

Thanks     Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head.docx

[55 Fargo]

25 minutes ago, bones44 said:

Tim, I enjoy reading your knowledgeable input and your blogs, but Earl makes both short and long heads.

Thanks     Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head.docx

I am sure Tim is aware that Edgy makes heads for the long blocks .Fenton Intake, and a few other hints, kinda identified this a short block build.

As far as heads go, for my preference, an  Edmunds or a planed stock head is what I would go with. I am not overly partial to the Edgy Heads for my own needs and reasons.

[timkingsbury]

1 hour ago, bones44 said:

Tim, I enjoy reading your knowledgeable input and your blogs, but Earl makes both short and long heads.

Thanks     Cast Finned Aluminum cylinder head.docx

Hi Bones44 -   You are correct and I actually did a series on my blog on "Rough Spotters Guide for Intakes, Heads, Headers"   and did note at the time Earl was making both big and small block heads.  My note should have said the edgy head and fenton intake tells me he is dealing with a small block.  But good catch and I half expected the original poster to come back with a comment on what he had and likely a picture of the extensive collection of stuff he has gathered up.

[wayfarer]

21 hours ago, timkingsbury said:

 Hi Presride -

With all due respect there are too many variables and too many unknowns to recommend a cam grind for you.  From a t5 which can range so widely in gear splits, with a gear set that is reasonably high requiring torque. The mustang suspension or HEI have zero to do with anything related to the cam. The edgy head tells me you have a small block engine and the low carb mount of a fenton means you are already going to be starved for torque and escalated RPM if you used a stock cam.The fenton headers will definitely let it breath better. What cfm and what carbs you use are a factor and hopefully you didn't go for the carter weber trap, although like what bore you have and whether your using heavy 4 ring pistons or lighter weight 3 ring forged pistons wont factor what cam grind you should use.  In terms of where to get the cam, as much  as I could help, reading through your plan I would wonder why your not getting your cam from Earl "Edgy" Edgerton who made your head?  That is where I would likely suggest you going.

But to your original question, I now have enough information to be very confident to say that cam is not what you will want for your project.

Best of luck.

Tim

...yeah....gotta disagree on this point.  The piston weight and compression have everything to do with the cam profile.

Any engine with 7:1 c/r will NOT use the same cam as the same engine with 10:1 c/r.

[John-T-53]

It would be good to know the stock cam specs for comparison, if anybody has those available.

[55 Fargo]

53 minutes ago, John-T-53 said:

It would be good to know the stock cam specs for comparison, if anybody has those available.

Well John which stock cam spec? Or rather which engine which application etc.

There were many stock cam specs for these engines.

So what would you do with the info, just curious?

1 hour ago, wayfarer said:

...yeah....gotta disagree on this point.  The piston weight and compression have everything to do with the cam profile.

Any engine with 7:1 c/r will NOT use the same cam as the same engine with 10:1 c/r.

Would you consider this more relevant with an overhead valve engine, as compared to an Lhead configuration.

 

Again, if the OP has an Edgy manufactured head, would it not be prudent to contact him to get a suggestion for a cam grind.

[John-T-53]

The specs for the OP's motor.

Compare them, analyze.

Justify better/worse than custom cam.

Install preferred cam based on analysis.

Drive vehicle and report back.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dozerman51]

Hey John-T-53,

I live just south of you in San Carlos.  Maybe you've seen me driving my green and gold '41 WC 1/2 ton military around.  Would be nice to hook up and talk vintage mopar.

[timkingsbury]

21 hours ago, wayfarer said:

...yeah....gotta disagree on this point.  The piston weight and compression have everything to do with the cam profile.

Any engine with 7:1 c/r will NOT use the same cam as the same engine with 10:1 c/r.

That is ok we can agree to disagree.   The performance of an engine can clearly be effected by the piston weight and compression ratio, but you often see engines with wide range in compression ratio using the same cam profile.  Now picking 7:1 and 10:1 are clearly wide spreads in compression ratio, so while both could use the exact same cam profile, it is very likely that an engine build with a 7:1 compression ratio is purpose built for one thing and the usage of the engine will suggest a different cam profile than would someone who is building a 10:1 compression ratio engine or greater, which is clearly an engine build for a different purpose. 

I will stand by my post.

[timkingsbury]

20 hours ago, John-T-53 said:

It would be good to know the stock cam specs for comparison, if anybody has those available.

There are dozens and dozen of cam specs coming right for Chrysler Corporation, depending on what the engine was built for. Not sure is would help the vast majority and for me would fall into the nice to have, but not sure for what category.   I know I could look up every Canadian build flathead engine from 1935 (for the 1936 model year) until the last one was cast in 1959 (and used up until the late 60s etc). but the project just for that would be significant.     If there was a true benefit for a wide amount of member of the site, it might be something I would consider.  The USA side I don't have that details, but this entire topic has been discussed prior on the p15-d24 site and some lift and duration specs posted for factory engines.  Sorry, I am sure that your hoping someone will just post a chart of all the cams.

[wayfarer]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:49 PM, Presride said:

I have a new, old stock Iskenderian Cam for a Mopar flathead 6 with a lift of .435 and a duration of 266 degrees.  I found it listed in an old Iskenderian catalog as a grind for use on an oval track.  Is this Cam too much for the street?  

Here is a novel approach....call Isky and talk with one of their tech guys. Give them the run down on the rest of your engine specs, or what you plan to do to the engine, and get their recommendation.

 

[oldasdirt]

12 minutes ago, wayfarer said:

Here is a novel approach....call Isky and talk with one of their tech guys. Give them the run down on the rest of your engine specs, or what you plan to do to the engine, and get their recommendation.

 

Its a great idea if you can find an old timer that gives you more than a giggle under his breath and a response that they don't do those any more like I have gotten in the past.  Here is their customer service/tech line number (310) 217-9232. 

[wayfarer]

Sadly, you are spot-on......far too many of the guys in the various shops only 'know' what they can find on their damned phones.....I'm still a bit miffed that Reid Oliver retired years ago at/from Crower.

My hope is that if the OP has a part number from his old catalogue they will have some application history in their archives. The other thing to consider is that the cams we commonly spec/use today would seem quite radical to a 1960's hot-rodder.

If all else fails the OP can regrind it to something else.

 

 

 

[50plymouth]

If the cam is already .435 lift and .266 duration I doubt your regrinding that cam.  I think Tim Kingsbury nailed it. If its more radical than he is using in what is basically a race engine, its not going to be a what  Presride has described as his intended use. Isky told me a number of years ago that they no longer stocked or could help me on a flathead mopar cam.

Presride has access to an old catalogue and found his cam listed.  Sure sounds to me like a good idea to  call Edgy for a new cam or cam profile recommendation. With Edgy having made the head he is going to use he would have the leg up on figuring out the cam.

[wayfarer]

13 hours ago, 50plymouth said:

If the cam is already .435 lift and .266 duration I doubt your regrinding that cam.  I think Tim Kingsbury nailed it. If its more radical than he is using in what is basically a race engine, its not going to be a what  Presride has described as his intended use. Isky told me a number of years ago that they no longer stocked or could help me on a flathead mopar cam.

Presride has access to an old catalogue and found his cam listed.  Sure sounds to me like a good idea to  call Edgy for a new cam or cam profile recommendation. With Edgy having made the head he is going to use he would have the leg up on figuring out the cam.

 

I will assume that you really don't have any in-depth knowledge of the regrinding process.

There is nothing 'wrong' with the duration; the big lift is the issue but that is easily fixed with a new profile...cut the top off!

[T120]

23 minutes ago, wayfarer said:

 

I will assume that you really don't have any in-depth knowledge of the regrinding process.

There is nothing 'wrong' with the duration; the big lift is the issue but that is easily fixed with a new profile...cut the top off!

... He says , as he casts his fly out onto the placid pond.

[50plymouth]

On January-05-17 at 1:14 PM, wayfarer said:

 

I will assume that you really don't have any in-depth knowledge of the regrinding process.

There is nothing 'wrong' with the duration; the big lift is the issue but that is easily fixed with a new profile...cut the top off!

Likely enough knowledge to be dangerous although in this case, with this Isky cam you  I was told by Isky tech support that I could not do what you are suggesting. I came across several Isky cams in the early 70s when a local stock car builder passed away. His family auctioned off everything. It was a 3 day auction and I purchased several shelving units of parts.  Among that were all kinds of cams, pistons and bearings. I inquired directly with Isky at the time inquiring about specifications as each cam was marked at the end. They mailed me a catalogue.  it was pretty easy to identify what I had. A couple I used and a couple I sold. I inquired with Isky tech support about having 3 cams reground. One was this exact profile.  I was told they could not regrind the cam to bring it back from the wild. I asked specifically if it was that they didn't regrind cams or if these cams could not be reground.   That was a long time ago and perhaps my aging memory is incorrect here although I was sure it was the duration that made this profile so wild.   I had put in a lesser duration cam from the pile in a Plymouth.  it was a 1023 1/2 miles cam and it was lumpy as anything I had ever seen. Its lift was stock .375 lift but was 250 degrees of duration. When it cam into its own it would scream well past my 5000rpm tach capacity.