Knock in fresh engine install

[pyrodork]

I'll admit that I'm not experienced in tuning engines (yet).

I started this 230 engine out of the car a few months ago with no major issues. I then installed the clutch and transmission from my old 218, then put in the car. Couldn't get it started.

Discovered no spark in distributor. Removed distributor and installed new wire. Tried cranking with plug on coil and got spark. Realized I should have put the distributor back in before cranking. Put distributor back in.

Few days later, the engine started, but a knock/tapping sound that wasn't there before. Opening the choke caused the noise to get louder and more defined. Hard to find even the area the noise is coming from. If I kept the choke almost entirely closed, I didn't get the noise... or not nearly as much.

Another couple days later, started her up again to try to find the source of the noise. Felt around the block and components with my hand to feel for extra vibrations. Too hard to tell. Put the car in gear and it sounds horrible. Car moves in both directions but has grinding noise. Felt the bottom of the clutch/flywheel cover from under the car and I think that's it. After shutting the car off, I noticed that the oil drain plug is almost rubbing against the tie rod. Maybe? I'm thinking that the clutch is likely suspect because the sound wasn't there before I installed it. I had a heck of a time changing it over from the column shift transmission with having to grind down the bellhousing so the flywheel wouldn't hit.

I have a video of the noise, but it's hard to tell where it's coming from because, well, it's a video. I don't think timing has anything to do with it, but because I cranked it without the distributor, I'm not certain. Point gap is set right. No backfiring. Seems it would run fine if the noise were fixed.

Be gentle, guys. I'm only trying to learn! Not having much luck finding local guys that have time to spare.

I wanted this car at my wedding, but I don't think that with the available time, I'll have it ready in 2 weeks. Time to pull out the 48 instead!

Edited June 25, 2016 by pyrodork

[Don Coatney]

What combination engine/bell housing/flywheel/pilot bushing/ clutch disc/pressure plate/throw out bearing/transmission/starter motor did you use? Where can one listen to this noisy film clip?

[pyrodork]

54 dodge 230 engine (as I'm told), everything else from the unoriginal 218 that I pulled from the car; serial number shaved.

Took off the lower flywheel cover, but that looks good while running. Adjusted the idle and that helped a bit. Now I think my timing is off.

I took some more video today. Let me throw them on YouTube and post links.

[pyrodork]

Videos in order... Videos 3 and 4 were from today. Video 4 is after I turned down the idle speed.

Video 1:

Video 2:

Video 3:

Video 4:

I was having issues uploading video 2, so let me know if that's not working.

[Dave72dt]

I'd suggest checking your firing order first.

[Dodgeb4ya]

I don't know if an incorrect firing order could cause that scary rattle knocking noise!

[Plymouthy Adams]

I don't know if an incorrect firing order could cause that scary rattle knocking noise!

does it need a mechanic or a exorcist...

[pyrodork]

It's weird, though, because before I put the clutch, bell, and trans on, it didn't make a noise even resembling this.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Flywheel bolts /clutch cover hitting something...

pull lower bell cover and look

[Don Coatney]

It's weird, though, because before I put the clutch, bell, and trans on, it didn't make a noise even resembling this.

Then that is the first place to investigate. Is there a pilot bearing in the flywheel?

[pyrodork]

Friend saw the video and thinks it's a rod bearing. Then I saw this video... Not sure if everyone can see it because it's a Facebook link. It's of a guy with his oil pan off, moving the rod back and forth. Hope it's not that! I already did that gasket! Not to mention, the pain in the butt it would be.

I bought Butch's crossmember kit for my 360. I wanted to upgrade anyway, but was hoping to get some road time first.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/413512055514755/permalink/518721051660521/

[BigDaddyO]

Friend saw the video and thinks it's a rod bearing.

That must be what it is then.

[Sharps40]

Are you not interested or perhaps not confident in checking out the obvious first possibility already stated here?  A loose/out of balance flywheel/clutch assembly? 

 

Can't tell from the thread if you're sitting there wringing hands searching the web for issues or not. 

 

If you want to drive it ya have to go start with the obvious stuff first.  It may actually be a loose rod but it may not.  Nobody here or on the web can tell you that.

 

I ain't trying to be mean but maybe you need to pick a direction for your project and take it to a professional to do much of the heavy lifting.  In the long run it may prevent you from having a partly disassembled car in the garage that you are frustrated with and wind up selling for parts and/or at a significant loss.

 

Nothing to be ashamed of in using a pro either.  I got my 37 back after 23 years gone missing and its at a pro for most of the work because I have a job and a family and other commitments that would only allow me to be laying under the car 10 minutes a month for 200 years to get it done.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Sharps40

[Don Coatney]

Friend saw the video and thinks it's a rod bearing. Then I saw this video... Not sure if everyone can see it because it's a Facebook link. It's of a guy with his oil pan off, moving the rod back and forth. Hope it's not that! I already did that gasket! Not to mention, the pain in the butt it would be.

 

As I said look at the last thing that was done before the noise started. Rod bearing is the last thing I would look at but the choice is yours.

 

On the oil pan gaskets I use gasket sealant on one side of the side gaskets only and grease on the flip side as well as grease only on both end pieces. By doing this you should have no leaks and the oil pan can be removed and the gaskets re-used several times.

[Plymouthy Adams]

it puzzles me why you would think a rattling rod bearing ONLY AFTER you installed the transmission...quiet engine before..rattling after...this screams go back to last step and check your work...

 

It is not a bad thing you wish to upgrade the engine and tranny in that car..but you do owe it to yourself and that poor engine/tranny to check behind our latest work prior to rip out and setting aside...odds are you can later sell it to offset costs but at a great loss with this noise if you decide to sell and disclose the problem up front..

[Fernando Mendes]

Why to deccelerate the engine you have to close the choke plate?There is no necessary to close the choke if the engine is already warmed up.I think this noise you have to check the valve tappet clearance.

[Dave72dt]

Post #1 - "distributor was out, realized should have put back in before cranking.".  It sounds as much like having a couple of plug wires going to the wrong place as anything which was why I suggested checking the firing order. It's simple to do and I haven't heard that it's been checked yet. and verified to be correct.

[BigDaddyO]

Post #1 - "distributor was out, realized should have put back in before cranking.".  It sounds as much like having a couple of plug wires going to the wrong place as anything which was why I suggested checking the firing order. It's simple to do and I haven't heard that it's been checked yet. and verified to be correct.

Seems to me all that's been done was;

Friend saw the video and thinks it's a rod bearing

[Dodgeb4ya]

does it need a mechanic or a exorcist...

No exorcist here... just a careful go back and recheck bolts.. things that were undone and redone... easy squeasy..

[pyrodork]

Update:

I'm a busy guy anyway, but with a wedding coming up, time is such a privilege!

I checked the firing order and it's the same as when I had the 218 installed. I tried a different order that I found in a book from another year, but I couldn't get it to start with that. I'll post what firing order I'm using the next time I have the chance.

I tried to set the timing correctly before checking the firing order.

After it runs for awhile and I shut it off, I can't get it to start again.

After thinking about it, it's plausible that the engine had that noise before installing it and I was too distracted by the exhaust and the "not-as-sealed-as-I-thought" oil pressure line to notice. Perfect example of why I need friends!

I love this car. I've had it in storage for 5 years with a blown engine (while being homeless) while trying to figure out what I should do to fix it (but I did sell my Studebaker to pay rent!). I don't see ever selling it. My dad custom painted the dash, so I have a bit of sentiment attached. That is, aside from my 1937 Plymouth collectibles as well. Point being, I'm in it for the long and winding road. I also want to learn so I can apply the knowledge to future vehicle acquisitions and generations of youth glued to digital screens. The 360 was part of my long term plan, anyway; as a winter project, since I never had the original matching engine to start with. I still plan to source this noise, but I'll be getting the 360 ready for a relatively smooth transition (as one can only hope) when the right time comes. Gotta say though, I love the sounds and smells of a good-running mopar flathead! I'm keeping it in my 1948.

[_shel_ny]

Now saying it's rod related, but if you want to check that route, it has been posted here before, to isolate the possible problem location by taking 1 plug wire off  at a time to see if that changes the noise. With the plug wire off there is no firing of the individual cylinder reducing the load/stress on that cylinder/piston/rod/bearing. Take one off. Try it. Put back on. Take another off. Try it ....................     Take off/put on with the engine not running unless you have the proper insulated tool to do it with the engine running.  Also I would remove the wire at the distributor end to reduce the chance of stray arcs/sparks.

[pyrodork]

Firing order (as I started with): 153624.

I looked in the book to find out what I changed it to that didn't work, but all I'm finding is the order that I had before. Maybe all the stress caused some temporary dyslexia?

I'll try pulling the wires one by one the next time I get to it. If the noise is a rod bearing, that would only reduce the volume when that associated wire is pulled, correct? Because the crank would still be moving the rod, but no explosion in the cylinder to magnify the force against the piston?

[Plymouthy Adams]

ok..but are you routing them in the correct rotation..

[pyrodork]

Met a neighbor today that's a car nut. Started up the car and they were certain it's a rod bearing.

Was working on my 48 changing the thermostat at the time. Snapped a bolt, but I figured there's almost an inch I can get a vise on. Heated it up, worked it back and forth... snapped flush with the head. Ugh. Got the drill out and started small. About the third bit in, the bit snapped below flush. Got the picks out, but it was too far down. Drilled a bit more (what I could) and started welding on a nut. Second time didn't work, now I have to close up for the day.

Someone is really testing me today!