1948 P15 Super DeLuxe sedan as LeMons racer

[TodFitch]

Work on the 1947/48 (paperwork varies) begins in earnest after Memorial day because this weekend we finalize the mechanicals on the race van for the July 23-24 race.  After that, we just have to work on theme and the van gets loaded into the trailer.  To sit for 5-6 weeks.

 

All our engine gaskets and tune up parts are in but still waiting on the manual.

 

I pick up a bunch of Explorer parts Sunday from a guy parting out three explorers but it looks like I will do the PnP Memorial half price sale to pull the axle we.ratio we want.  We are going to run a 3.55 axle with theoretical top speed of 70-75 with the relatively short race tires.  The Explorer front and rear disc brakes with an as yet unknown master cylinder.  The hyper-expensive brake compound we use on the van (which lasts forever and gives us no issues with pad transfer) is available for the fronts but the rears will have to run something less exotic.

 

. . .

 

That is all for now as we are stalled until we can free up a garage stall by getting the race van in the trailer.

 

Offers to sell need to be in the classified area. . .

[OnkelUdo]

Offers to sell need to be in the classified area. . .

Not ready to sell but when I am will absolutely have it in the right area.

[OnkelUdo]

Today we put a lot of the motor back together.  We have run into two issues...one likely small and the other potentially big.

 

The boxes of parts do not include the (obviously formerly installed) remote filter or lines.  It also does not include the pressure relief stuff so probably in the same lost box of parts.  Easy fix.

 

The crank nose nut will not loosen.  We did not have the right socket but a 24" pipe wrench with a 4' cheater and my full 220 #'s on it did nothing.  We will be basting it in penetrating oil for a few days and I have 1 13/16" socket on order (we checked it with the calipers).  Likely use our old trick of using the impact in forward and reverse repeatedly  while spraying Kroil on the gap will finally do the trick but welcome to other suggestions.  We are only doing this to change the front main seal but since it was installed in 1993 and never run, we think it is imperative.

 

We are off for Memorial Day as I have to get a Volvo engine done for a friend and everyone else has family plans.  

 

Our Chief Mechanic (retired coal mine mechanic) might get the floor repairs done and the the outriggers for the cage done (easier to do before the floors are in) just so he has an excuse to play with the present the team bought him for all his hard work...a new plasma cutter.  Oddly, I think the drivers floor is relatively sound, while more than half off the front passenger is daylight.

Edited May 21, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[OnkelUdo]

Are the pressure relief fittings except for the actual plunger pretty universal on these engines?  There is a guy selling parts off a 1947 powerwagon in the classifieds.  He has everything I need but the plunger and he also has the oil filter canister and lines for the bypass filter.

[greg g]

should be  

[OnkelUdo]

Yesterday the daily driver seat from a Sebring convertible got installed.  Just a note to anyone doing this, you need either 12V to the seat or remove the rear skin and get rid of the solenoid on the shoulder belt.

 

Floor repairs were not as extensive as expected.

 

Steering wheel came off easily but of course we found that we will have to use a weld-on hub for a quick release wheel.

 

So we hit the crank nut with everything we have but heat.  Even with the right 1 13/16" socket with all the taper ground off, it is not budging.  We have a 3/4" 1000 ft lb wrench coming but after that, I am out of options unless I borrow a torch.

 

The 1/2 price day at the pick n pull was good to us.  Explorer 3.55 axle with sway bar and brakes.  Front Explorer brakes less the rotors.  Still need to find wheels...and weather is nice enough I might go to a different PnP that actually does not wholesale out their wheels...I mean how hard should be to find 4-8 7 x 16 Explorer alloys?

Edited June 5, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[OnkelUdo]

The nut spun right off with the with the giant impact.

 

Our chief mechanic found that BOTH transmissions that came with the car had bad cluster gears (countershaft).  We have one ordered but any idea what the primary failure mode is for these so we can try to avoid it.

Edited June 10, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[greg g]

Other than worn synchros and linkage batting sloppy, I haven't heard of any catastrophic failures of the three speed box.

[OnkelUdo]

Interesting that we have two with the same failure.  The one from the car (somewhat confirmed 36K miles) had the failure which led to the "restoration" that never finished 30 years later.  The second was theoretically the "good" replacement (may explain part of the delay in putting back on the street).

 

Based the value of most of the NOS parts it is either a common failure or there are not many left (because spares proved unneeded and not stocked).  We did find one listed in our price range and snapped it up.

[OnkelUdo]

FYI, after a bizarre failure of the manual tranny we swapped into the minivan at this weekends race the team has decided to try a fast-paced prep of the Plymouth for the mid-October race in South Haven, MI.  We will keep the automatic re-swapped van in reserve, but we need a different focus for our frustration.

 

Engine, carb, coil, oil filter, 12V alternator, modern'ish AL radiator and swapped rear axle (Ranger with disc brakes) are ready...most of those need installed.  Master cylinder, front brake conversion and shock relocation are in the works.

 

Anything we are missing?  We not even close to shooting for competive but maybe the highest award in LeMons, the Index of Effluence, is a reality.  We just do not want to roll the car of spend the weekend wrenching only.

[OnkelUdo]

Drivetrain is in.  Brakes (Explorer conversion, some Corvette C3 MC conversion) almost done.  No racing stuff like cage, race seat, harness, etc, but it is shaping up finally.

Edited September 15, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[OnkelUdo]

Drove under its own power for the first time in probably 30 years...25 at least.

Granted, it was towed back after a little more than a block but running and driving again by the end of the day after I left (points plate was not properly tightened down).

It races on October 8 and 9 if we can get the cage and safety gear installed in time.  FedEx lost the two most important pieces in the custom bent cage we ordered so that is not as likely as we would prefer.  I plan to daily drive it for a few days next week if the cage does not go in Saturday (or maybe if it does).

 

 

[Bobacuda]

Get a copy of Tex Smith's "How to Build Plymouth, Chrysler, Dodge/Hot Rods."  He has shock relocation and "junkyard" disc brake info.  I think he used Olds Tornado front discs.  And do us all a favor, post lots of photos and info on your build and the race (think Bamford Garage vacation posts).  I have to admit, I have been thinking of this type of project as well, but budget and time makes me realize I would be happy just to see photos of your car in action and the results.

Oops.  Did not see that I was not commenting on the most recent posts. Oh well, Tex's book is still a good read.

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Bobacuda

[OnkelUdo]

Well, we have actually done all the "safety" related improvements to suspension and brakes based off of threads and templates on this forum.  The brakes are Ford Explorer pieces since they offered dual piston fronts and the 8.8 rear axles was what we wanted anyway.  Heck, we even have the race pads on four corners...now we just need a place we can bed them in without scaring ourselves or getting arrested!  

Shock relocation was a little trickier than planned but is done.

Our real challenge if we even have time before the first race is setting up the steering.  There is no similarity between any of the other cars we have done (at least in the front).  The standards we think of as far as toe, camber and caster for a race set up do not seem feasible here as the reaction of the wheels in all three axis to the slightest steering input is significant verses turn in being significant and Ackerman being very subtle.

We tend to get most of the pictures at the track so they will be on the team Facebook page but probably a few from the cage and seat install will pop up there first.

[OnkelUdo]

We are down to the wire with one build day left on Saturday, 10/1.  If that build day goes well and it is not raining at the end of it, I drive the car the 20 miles home from our super-secret build location.  If that goes well, I actually should get to drive it to work on Wednesday 10/5!

I load the old battle wagon on the trailer Thursday morning, pack up the gear, load up the food and beer then head to (hopefully) sunny South Haven, Michigan for 4 days of fun.  This means the car will have moved a total of about 30 miles under its own power in more than two decades right before it hits the track for test and tune.  What could possibly go wrong?

[Don Coatney]

There are at least 2 forum members within spitting distance of you. Suggest you share the super secret hiding place with them for any assistance they may be able to offer plus verification with pictures they may be able to offer up to this group. 

[OnkelUdo]

16 hours ago, Don Coatney said:

There are at least 2 forum members within spitting distance of you. Suggest you share the super secret hiding place with them for any assistance they may be able to offer plus verification with pictures they may be able to offer up to this group. 

Sorry, the secret part is a joke.  We will be driving it from about Exchange and Western in Crete, IL to 171st and Calumet in Hammond, IN.  Anyone interested in taking a gander, PM me and I will make it happen anytime 10/1 to morning of 10/6.

The main thing we are going to have fun/trouble with is trying to get as close to a good "race" alignment as possible.  The steering geometry adjustments other that toe are new to me and a distant, half-forgotten set of memories for our chief mechanic...even with the manual it will be a challenge.  We likely will not have time to adjust anything but toe before the race anyway.

Most of the other stuff is "racecar" safety gear and prep.  Our chief mechanic did some tuning on the carb and we have a good baseline timing for the ignition but that will have to be fiddled with once it is good and hot.

Pictures will start surfacing Saturday/Sunday and pictures from the race normally end up on our Facebook page the Tuesday after.  https://www.facebook.com/BadDecisionsRacing/

Edited September 30, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[OnkelUdo]

Car is ready to race but for one issue we found today.  The shock relocation for the front that we did used the "suggested" shocks had them bottoming after an inch of play.  This was likely an install error on our part but should be easily remedied by the much shorter shocks we found.  Plus side, they limit max travel increasing effective minimum spring rate.  Negative, I do not envy our chief mechanic having to install them as max travel is about dead even with than static squat.

Edited October 1, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[greg g]

So tell us how you did!  Heard it ran flawlessly.

https://m.facebook.com/24hoursoflemons/photos/a.139307134494.111521.36766739494/10154178188929495/?type=3&source=54

Edited October 12, 2016 by greg g

[OnkelUdo]

4 hours ago, greg g said:

So tell us how you did!  Heard it ran flawlessly.

https://m.facebook.com/24hoursoflemons/photos/a.139307134494.111521.36766739494/10154178188929495/?type=3&source=54

I will drop this one here as well.

http://www.roadkill.com/24-hours-lemons-bad-decisions-racing-1948-plymouth-special-deluxe/

Still recovering from the weekend...both physically and the enormous backlog of work I have from a couple of days off.

In short, not one mechanical problem, it drives like a box truck and it was one of the most popular cars at the race.

[Ulu]

Wow sorry I lost touch with this thread!

Must watch the videos...

[OnkelUdo]

Most pictures and videos from other teams will be link on the facebook page listed above.  For the most part we are too lazy to much ourselves in that realm but others always seem to come through for us.

[OnkelUdo]

I guess I am not that great at the online version of storytelling but I will do my best.  The car truly ran flawlessly and had very predictable handling.  Keep in mind, the only modification we made to the suspension was doing the front shock relocation.  The only modification to the engine was a 12V coil and the only modification to the drivetrain was an Explorer 8.8 with the 3.55 axle.

We did 226 racing laps which is 475 miles.  This does not count the test and tune which was probably an additional 50-75.  The car averaged almost 14 miles per gallon which is insane at race pace (about 3 gallons per hour) compared to our Saturn (4-4.5 gallons per hour) and our van (5.5 g/h in manual transmission form, 7 g/h with the auto).  This means even without fuel cell we can realistically pull 4+ hour stints if we so choose.

The car was nowhere near fast with a calculated top speed on the short 2.1 mile track of about 62-64 mph and it was not fast through the curves either (average speed 45-50 mph).  Most folks called it "Stately" but we were easily 20 seconds off the Class C pace and an 40 seconds a lap off the competitive pace.  Our one driver put down a fast lap of 2:32 but averages were closer to 2:48-2:55.

In the end, we won the top prize known as the Index of Effluency!

For the next race there are a number of small modifications to make:

Custom driveshaft (our adapter or a u-joint started making vibrations over 3000 rpm on the second day)

Lowering front and rear

Rear Sway bar

More aggressive alignment including camber adjustments

"Race" tires

Potentially more aggressive timing

The next race is at the same track and in the same configuration with all the same drivers (likely) so improvement will be easy to gauge.  We will also be stretching the stints out as this race we were only making sure everyone got a fair amount of time and we kept it running the whole race.  In theory we could run Saturday on two fuel stops/driver changes and Sunday on one which would be a huge advantage but I wonder about driver stamina with the manual steering particularly with the more aggressive alignment and super sticky tires.

Edited October 14, 2016 by OnkelUdo

[greg g]

How did temps and oil pressure hold up?  Did it use lose any oil?  

[OnkelUdo]

As our original radiator could not be verified to hold pressure, we replaced it with an AL one.  As for the rest of the coolant system, all new hoses and three attempts to seal the thermostat housing meant no leaks.

We had some oil seepage on the lid of the oil filter housing that we never 100% resolved (handmade cork gasket) so we lost about 1 quart over the entire weekend but no signs that we burned any.  Side exhaust outlet had the telltale signs of a slightly rich mixture but it was likely at idle (never needed choke to start it).

Slightly different note...the awards ceremony which is funny for us but if you just want the mention of our car, skip to 21:30.

https://www.facebook.com/ron.vickers.3/videos/10153992874583811/