6V Starter Teeth

[Jim Shepard]

Anyone know the number of teeth on a 1950 6V starter? I know between 1951 and 1956 it was 146.

[dpollo]

to the best of my knowledge the tooth count is the same. It changed in '57.

[Reg Evans]

Are you talking starter or fly wheel ?

[Jim Shepard]

Starter.

[Reg Evans]

Really....146 teeth on a starter ?

[Jeff Balazs]

Has to mean the ring gear on the flywheel......only a handful of teeth on the starter pinion.

 

Jeff

[Phil363]

Anyone know the number of teeth on a 1950 6V starter? I know between 1951 and 1956 it was 146.

 

If your talking about the clutch on the shaft of the armature within the starter it should be 9 teeth. 

 

I will check once I get home tonight and update this post with a photo.  Mine is broken down being rebuilt right now. 

 

I have nine teeth on my 1950-1952 auto lite model MCH-6106 starter which is the same original model of starter which was on  your B-2-B.

 

The photo(s) below are from my Auto Lite parts catalog from 1952 shows which starter goes to the different model cars and trucks and Dodge B - series illustrations showing the starter clutch.

 

If your talking about the flywheel teeth I can count them on mine as it is waiting to be taken into the shop to be cleaned up.

 

​UPDATE: 6:15pm 20 Mar 16; confirmed the teeth count for my starter is 9.  Attached photo below.

 

Phil

Edited March 21, 2016 by Phil363

[Jim Shepard]

I thought it was a lot, too. I got that info out of a hot rod magazine. It was a letter-to-the-editor question and that's the answer that was given. The magazine tech guy said all Chrysler starters were 146 teeth from 51-56 and in 57 they went to 170-something. Go figure... If it's the number of teeth on the ring gear, why does it matter about matching starters?

Edited March 21, 2016 by Jim Shepard

[NiftyFifty]

LOL...that would be some pretty fine teeth on a starter drive....I'm guessing some type-o stuff going on there, or confusion with question. I've got a friend that needs to know that info too...how many teeth on a stock 1950 D starter drive (Canadian 1 ton), and can you buy a new one anywhere? He's tried a few sources and no luck yet.

[Phil363]

I thought it was a lot, too. I got that info out of a hot rod magazine. It was a letter-to-the-editor question and that's the answer that was given. The magazine tech guy said all Chrysler starters were 146 teeth from 51-56 and in 57 they went to 170-something. Go figure... If it's the number of teeth on the ring gear, why does it matter about matching starters?

 

The Fly wheel ring gear (146 tooth) (33-56 Dodge Truck & Plymouth Trucks) has always been my understanding for tooth counts on the flywheel and the 9 tooth starter clutch meshes with it when starting.

 

For the US trucks on my auto lite catalog photo in post 7 shows it takes the same model starter as Jim's B-2-B and my B-3-B model trucks also goes into the 1950 Model D truck (MCH-6106) . 

 

The chart in Post #7 also shows that  Starter Model MCH-6103 with clutch MCL-3098A (9 teeth on starter clutch) can go to a Model D truck as well. 

 

Not sure what would be different for Canada .. they were FARGOs up there I think.  Some other forum member may be able to tell you if it is different up there for a 1950 D model.

 

I  could find no new (NOS) complete model MCH-6106 starters when I started working on mine .. so I am just rebuilding it.  I found used models but they needed to be rebuilt just like mine.

 

I have seen online NOS unused 9 tooth Clutches (MCL-3075) to replace damaged clutch teeth  in the starter.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Phil363

[Don Coatney]

I thought it was a lot, too. I got that info out of a hot rod magazine. It was a letter-to-the-editor question and that's the answer that was given. The magazine tech guy said all Chrysler starters were 146 teeth from 51-56 and in 57 they went to 170-something. Go figure... If it's the number of teeth on the ring gear, why does it matter about matching starters?

Therein is the problem. Magazines post information to sell more magazines and keep the folks who advertise in there publications happy irrelevant of any knowledge or truthful facts. 

 

The tooth count on the starter shaft is much different than the tooth count on the flywheel ring gear. But the starter tooth count must be compatible with the flywheel ring gear. A 1956 and earlier combination will work and a 1957 and later combination will work.  

[NiftyFifty]

I swore I read once that the fluid drive trucks had a different ring gear then the others, but could I be thinking of a car being different then the truck?...maybe in that someone did a swap to a car engine and ring gear and didn't mesh with truck starter?

[NiftyFifty]

Did I ask the wrong question? LOL I seemed to have killed the thread

[Reg Evans]

Oh Man !   What a Kill Joy.

[wayfarer]

If you have a 146T flywheel the you need the 1956 and earlier starter. FWIW, 1956 is the only year for a 12v starter and 146 tooth flywheel......except that I have found the 146 in some later years but it easily could have been swapped in there.

In 1957 the flywheel tooth count went to 172 and the pinion gear changed to accommodate. Since the flywheel OD is 'similar' between the 146/172 then you must expect that the gear tooth 'pitch' will change when the ring gear teeth get closer together....

[bluebanshee]

My 1957 flywheel is the same OD as one that takes a 146T flywheel because that is what I switched it to. I ran into engagement issues running the 1957 starter with the 172T ring gear after putting an older car bell housing in the truck. Had to switch to the older 146T and starter.

 

If you have a 146T flywheel the you need the 1956 and earlier starter. FWIW, 1956 is the only year for a 12v starter and 146 tooth flywheel......except that I have found the 146 in some later years but it easily could have been swapped in there.

In 1957 the flywheel tooth count went to 172 and the pinion gear changed to accommodate. Since the flywheel OD is 'similar' between the 146/172 then you must expect that the gear tooth 'pitch' will change when the ring gear teeth get closer together....

[Jim Shepard]

So it has to do with the "pitch" of the teeth?

[johnsartain]

I know some of these post are a year old or older, Just though I would give a source for a starter should anyone need one Wilson has a replacement for the MCH6106 Prestolite starter. It is part number 91-06-1821. I found one at http://www.filterspro.com/detail.cfm?part=2027675 and ordered it, I will update the post if possible when it comes in. This company carries various parts for tractors and lift trucks so its reasonable that the part might interchange. O'Reillys carries the same starter under special order, $70 more plus $50 core at http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/WIL0/91061821.oap?ck=Search_mch6106_-1_3090&keyword=mch6106

Edited June 15, 2017 by johnsartain

[wayfarer]

Good info, thanks for posting.

[johnsartain]

Since I have someones attention, here's some question. I recently purchased a 6V Chrysler starter with 9 teeth for my truck, the type that required a starter solenoid. Upon installation I discovered that the gear hit the teeth on the flywheel ring but did not engage. I took the starter out and the Bendix was in the engaged position. I reinstalled the starter and was not able to turn the engine by hand or wrench. I removed the starter and was able to turn the engine. I seems that the Starters Bendix gear was putting the engine in a bind. The re-builder told me that the 12v starter had a smaller 9 tooth gear and output shaft and wondered if mine had been converted to 12v? From what I have read on the forum I have not found anyone who would have made any difference between 6v and 12v starters particularly as far as the Bendix goes. Both vehicles are supposed to be 218's with 146t flywheels.

The questions are:

1. Are there differences in the diameter of the tooth portion of the Bendix's?
2. Are there any differences in the diameter of the flywheel?
3. Are there any differences in the bell housings as far as where center to center of the crank and starter shaft measure?

I'm just trying to get a feel for where the problem may be.

Edited June 15, 2017 by johnsartain
Forgot a detail

[Don Coatney]

My Plymouth has been converted to 12 volts. What I discovered when attempting to use a 6 volt starter that not only does the starter motor spin faster but the Bendix also engaged faster. This frequently caused a loud clunk and on a couple of occasions locked the gears to the point that the engine was also locked. My band aid was to put the car in top gear and push it back and forth until the Bendix released thus freeing the engine. My final fix was to install a 12 volt starter from a 56 Plymouth and I never had the problem again. Others who use a 6 volt starter on 12 volts have not had this problem.

[Plymouthy Adams]

did you compare you old starter drive with the new starter drive.....what is to say that some person has not mismatched the starter Bendix

[wayfarer]

My knowledge of all things L6 is limited, however, I do know that on V8 application, of the same time period, that there was a small change in starter pinion design from 1956 to 1957 (146tooth flywheel vs. the 172 tooth flywheel) although the overall starter design remained. The change from 146 to 172 also caused the starter to move ever-so-slightly to accommodate the pinion change.

...so.....did someone repair your starter with the incorrect gear?

[johnsartain]

Don Coatney,

I may be experiencing the same thing as you did because I did try using my Jumpstarter to crank the engine over. I could have spun the starter too fast and caused it to crash with the flywheel rather than engage it. What kind of Cold Cranking amps and Amp Hours do I need for the 6V battery system. I can give that a try. The bind I may have experienced could have been 146 teeth trying to turn a 9 tooth starter drive. That would be sort of tough I think.

Plymouthy,

I bought this project as a truck in a box so to speak. 2 engines mostly parts, no bell housings, or starters. Both blocks locked up tight with rust after sitting uncovered outdoors for a few years. Not having the starters I had to just look to see what I could find. As mentioned above, I believe I found an original type MCH 6106 that I am going to try, but I would like to have a key start over the pedal start if possible. When the MCH 6106 comes in I will compare to the chrysler one I have to think that this one may be for the 25 inch block as the starter for the Chrysler is tough to get in and out. The back hits the oil return lines from the filter.

Wayfarer,

It may very well be for the 172 tooth flywheel rather than the 146 tooth. It is a 9 tooth bendix but i will check the diameter / circumference of the gear when the MCH 6106 arrives Wednesday

Thanks for your help here and I will keep you posted when I find out.

Edited June 19, 2017 by johnsartain

[Don Coatney]

What combination of components are you suing? A 251 crankshaft with a 218 flywheel? If so that may be a problem.