1952 Dodge sisson choke location

[mopar_earl]

Hello,

Trying to make sure sisson choke is in the correct location. Mine is in front of the carb. Having issues with the choke being on too much and running rich until warmed up. At 78 degrees the choke is almost closed. So either my choke is incorrect or the bi-metal spring is out of calibration. Or it's in the wrong location. Someone told me they believe on a 52 Dodge that the choke should be behind the carb, not in front. Any pics?

Thanks,

Earl

Edited March 10, 2016 by mopar_earl

[traveller816]

Hi Earl, not sure if it helps or not. Just looked through my pictures and here's one of my 42 Chrysler and it is behind the carb.

[pflaming]

These are two types of automatic chokes, I have both.

I'm not sure the carb mounted choke is sisson.

Edited March 11, 2016 by pflaming

[Plymouthy Adams]

pflaming, on 10 Mar 2016 - 3:42 PM, said:

Here are a couple more pics. Maybe they will help. Isn't there a good pic in the service annual? This is a '56 Plymouth 230.

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

where is the Sissions choke in these pictures?

[pflaming]

Incorrect information deleted.

Edited March 10, 2016 by pflaming

[mopar_earl]

Ok, so for a 52 Dodge it should be in front of the carb, not rear? I just need to confirm that in front of the carb is correct for 52 Dodge.

The service manual sucks badly.

Earl

[Bobandy]

where is the Sissions choke in these pictures?

There is no Sission Choke in these pictures....  The choke is mounted on the back side of the carb.  Hey, on a 52 Dodge Coronet the sisson choke is definitely mounted on the exhaust manifold and located in front of the carb with linkage from the choke to the carb. 

[Bobandy]

OK.  I'll re-post a picture of my choke on my 52 Dodge.  It works correctly now that I have the correct linkage and rebuilt the coil section on top as well has tearing it all apart and generally cleaning it up.  If you look close you can see the brass shaft with the actuating arm attached.  Bob

[dpollo]

Whether the choke is in front  217 - 230    or behind  218 228  236 and 251,   the adjustment is critical

and it is outlined in detail in the shop manual.    In case you don't have one  follow the steps below:

 

1 remove air cleaner and block the throttle about 1/4 open

2 insert locking pin to lock shaft....this must fit snugly .. a drill bit of the right size is perfect

3 loosen clamp on lever and push lever upward 'til the choke butterfly is closed tight

4 tighten clamp,  remove locking pin and check for free operation.  It is not considered good practice to lube these parts

 

If all is well, the electrical solenoid will close the choke, and only when the engine is  being started from cold.

You are cautioned not to use too long a screw where the wire fastens on as it will bottom out  and of course the asbestos

gasket (pad) must be under the choke unit and in good shape.  Let us all know if there is a source for new ones.

[mopar_earl]

I adjusted it as per my manual. Yes I have a gasket under I bought on eBay made for the application. Leaves either the wrong sisson or my bi-metal spring has lost its calibration. Choke almost closed at 80*F seems like too much to me. I'd expect it to be 3/4 open.

Earl

[desoto1939]

EARL: THE ROD THAT MOVES THE CHOKE BUTTERFLY MIGHT BE TOO LONG. sEE IF YOU CAN GET SOMEONE TO TAKE A MEASUREMENT OF THEIRS AND THEN COMPARE THE ONE ON YOUR CAR.  GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU GOT SOME ANSWERS TO THE CORRECT POSITION.

 

oN MY 39 DESOTO THE CHOKE IS BEHIND THE CARB. nOT AN EXPERT BUT THERE ARE SOME GREAT MEMBERS THAT CAN ASSIST.

 

RICH HARTUNG

DESOTO1939@AOL.COM

[dpollo]

All right, you have certainly done the best anyone could do  so far.  Now  maybe it is time to get creative.

What if you adjust the choke so that it only shuts completely when power is applied to the solenoid ?  I think your conclusion about the bi metal strip may be correct.  If you know who Gus Wilson is, this is a puzzle for him.

 

Gus, originally from Popular Science can now be visited on line in a site hosted by Mike Hammerberg.    Great reading !

[mopar_earl]

All right, you have certainly done the best anyone could do so far. Now maybe it is time to get creative.

What if you adjust the choke so that it only shuts completely when power is applied to the solenoid ? I think your conclusion about the bi metal strip may be correct. If you know who Gus Wilson is, this is a puzzle for him.

Gus, originally from Popular Science can now be visited on line in a site hosted by Mike Hammerberg. Great reading !

I tried changing the adjustment. Than it doesn't close enough to activate the fast idle cam.

Earl

[dpollo]

Desoto 39 may be onto something.   The longer engines  -say 251-  with the choke behind the carb does use a longer rod simply because the carb is in the middle and the engine  is longer.    maybe make up a shorter rod, coat hanger wire would work temporarily and see if the adjustments fall into place.

 

 I suppose the length could be worked out with Pythagorus' theorem

but you don't have a 251 to measure .   Cut and try   maybe an inch shorter  and see what happens.

 

I think one sure result will be your wife will come looking for her coat hanger.    Good luck.

Edited March 11, 2016 by dpollo

[_shel_ny]

My shop manual shows the choke mounted in front of the carb. Same as Bobandy pic, and that is where it was located on my unmolested 52 Meadowbrook.

 

Parts book shows 2 different length rods from the choke arm to the carb. for 49-54 Dodge

 

6 1/8", or 5 13/16" Possibly different  for carb difference between Gyromatic, and plain 3 speed.

 

Do you have the correct carb?

 

Do you have the correct choke? Arm on correct side.

 

Second pic shows a mounted choke (1948 Dodge behind carb), and a loose one that would be mounted forward of the carb

 

 

There should be no problem with the bi-metal spring in the base unless it has been taken out and bent, or some such. 

 

Not sure what you are talking about with the fast idle cam. Fast idle cam is set/released by moving the throttle linkage.

 

 

Not trying to step on anyone's toes here. Just tossing out some info/ideas.

[DonaldSmith]

The choke plate linkage sets the fast idle cam.  But to do so, the throttle position has to be somewhat open.  That's why we push the pedal halfway down before starting. 

 

A few photos of my professionally-rebuilt Carter B&B:

 

[Bobandy]

Wow,  I had forgotten about the length of the rod...  It so happens that my carburetor was changed to a Carter and the rod was about an inch longer than the one on it now.  I didn't change the carb but I know it was changed.  It wasn't working well at all... seemed like it had no chance of working due to the rod length.  Then I found a 49 Plymouth at the local  Salvage yard with a rod that was obviously shorter and straight.  It measures just a hair over 5 and 3/8 inches.  I believe the carb was also a Carter.  Looks like changing the brand of Carb requires one to be sure the rod length is compatible.  Bob

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bobandy

[mopar_earl]

My shop manual shows the choke mounted in front of the carb. Same as Bobandy pic, and that is where it was located on my unmolested 52 Meadowbrook.

Parts book shows 2 different length rods from the choke arm to the carb. for 49-54 Dodge

6 1/8", or 5 13/16" Possibly different for carb difference between Gyromatic, and plain 3 speed.

Do you have the correct carb?

Do you have the correct choke? Arm on correct side.

Second pic shows a mounted choke (1948 Dodge behind carb), and a loose one that would be mounted forward of the carb

There should be no problem with the bi-metal spring in the base unless it has been taken out and bent, or some such.

Not sure what you are talking about with the fast idle cam. Fast idle cam is set/released by moving the throttle linkage.

Not trying to step on anyone's toes here. Just tossing out some info/ideas.

Correct carb. Haven't measured the rod yet. Don't know if it's the correct sisson. Don't know if the bi-metal spring has been tampered with. The sisson on my car is in front of the carb with the arm on the driver's side facing towards the firewall.

The choke is what sets the fast idle cam, not the throttle. Choke puts it in position and when you open the throttle the cam goes up and you're on fast idle. When the choke comes off it moves the fast idle cam and once you touch the throttle the cam drops out and your back on the idle stop.

Earl

[mopar_earl]

Anyone know how many different sisson chokes they had for mopars? I've seen two with the only noticeable difference being which side the arm is on. I will measure the rod but unless I know what its suppose to have, knowing the measurement wouldn't help.

I found only patent numbers on the sisson.

Earl

[_shel_ny]

2 used for 6 cylinder.

 

The 8 used two, but the style is different.

 

 

Edit:  677179                1935-50

        1311 839          1949-54

Edited March 15, 2016 by shel_ny

[mopar_earl]

2 used for 6 cylinder.

The 8 used two, but the style is different.

Edit: 677179 1935-50

1311 839 1949-54

Thanks, I thought there were only two. That means my sisson is correct and in the correct place. Only leaves wrong lenght rod or the bi-metal spring is not within calibration. I will measure the rod and post. Maybe compare the lenght to what others have with the same year car with same carb.

Earl