Optimum gearing ideas

[John-T-53]

I would think it is easier to stick to a manual. Having done one, it was a lot of work and cost some dough, but not "that bad" really.

 

The "aok boys" are touting the 833 transmission in the blog section as their preferred five speed over the BW/Tremec T-5. I don't know much about the 833, it might be a good li'l box...but the T5 with the right gear setup is perfect for our trucks, when done correctly. And you don't need an adapter plate (just a bell housing in your case, Jeff).

Edited December 9, 2015 by John-T-53

[55 Fargo]

I would think it is easier to stick to a manual. Having done one, it was a lot of work and cost some dough, but not "that bad" really.

 

The "aok boys" are touting the 833 transmission in the blog section as their preferred five speed over the BW/Tremec T-5. I don't know much about the 833, it might be a good li'l box...but the T5 with the right gear setup is perfect for our trucks, when done correctly. And you don't need an adapter plate (just a bell housing in your case, Jeff).

The 833 is geared similar to my stock T98 acme 4 spd, 2nd to 4th are like the 1st to 3rd on the 833, then of course your 4 th speed OD reduction.

Looks like a pretty simple process with a well made adapter from AoK, it does use a side shifter though. With a T 5 you still need what a pilot bushing spacer, the 1 clutch housing hole welded up and redrilled, a clutch disc with GM spline, what else, drive shaft mod, that bout it?

[55 Fargo]

Did those on this thread feel my truck was slow off the line, as it appears in the video? I know it is hard to tell, she is a bit doggy off the line, and in 4th until about 50 mph. A good stiff crosswind pushes her back too.

Jeff mentions a bout more HP, and yes more torque might be the answer. These old pumps have a bit of asthma, better breathing and inhaling and exhaling, with a haircut, might be the answer.

Jeff's truck seems heavy compared to mine, mine is what 3200 lbs for a little 108 wb 1/2 truck?

Edited December 9, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[55 Fargo]

Had to have a little cruise, almost no snow, about 42f, very rare for Manitoba Canada, on December the 9th.

[wallytoo]

jeff, any reason you cant drive in the stop/go traffic using third to start?  especially if you leave it in third while braking, and don't use the clutch?

 

i used to drive dad's 3/4-ton with FD using just 3rd, no clutching.

 

 

and i took my 1.5 ton for a cruise today, too.  made a trip to the dump and to the liquor store.

 

 

wally

Edited December 9, 2015 by wallytoo

[John-T-53]

The 833 is geared similar to my stock T98 acme 4 spd, 2nd to 4th are like the 1st to 3rd on the 833, then of course your 4 th speed OD reduction.

Looks like a pretty simple process with a well made adapter from AoK, it does use a side shifter though. With a T 5 you still need what a pilot bushing spacer, the 1 clutch housing hole welded up and redrilled, a clutch disc with GM spline, what else, drive shaft mod, that bout it?

 

Welding only required if your bell housing is drilled for an original 4-speed.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/23955-t5-project/

 

How do the side shifters work on the 833?

[55 Fargo]

Welding only required if your bell housing is drilled for an original 4-speed.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/23955-t5-project/

 

How do the side shifters work on the 833?

John I do not know to be honest, i take it is a typical side style stick shifter. wonder if the column shifter and linkage could be adapted to  this trans in anyway, I doubt it...

[Jeff Balazs]

jeff, any reason you cant drive in the stop/go traffic using third to start?  especially if you leave it in third while braking, and don't use the clutch?

 

i used to drive dad's 3/4-ton with FD using just 3rd, no clutching.

 

 

and i took my 1.5 ton for a cruise today, too.  made a trip to the dump and to the liquor store.

 

 

wally

Hey Wally;

The 3.55 rear axle I have in this truck makes that  a very slow take off. I doubt the people I have to share the roads here with would react nicely too. They are all in a rush...to get no where.

 

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

Jeff Balazs, on 09 Dec 2015 - 8:05 PM, said:

Hey Wally;

The 3.55 rear axle I have in this truck makes that  a very slow take off. I doubt the people I have to share the roads here with would react nicely too. They are all in a rush...to get no where.

 

Jeff

well..I do not think it is a rush to get anywhere as much as it is imperative that they arrive before the guy who was just in front of them..

[55 Fargo]

Hey Wally;

The 3.55 rear axle I have in this truck makes that  a very slow take off. I doubt the people I have to share the roads here with would react nicely too. They are all in a rush...to get no where.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff, yes the modern day drivers, are in a friggin hurry to go "nowhere" or "anywhere" it seems/ Now on your major streets and boulevardos, your speed limits are what 30, 35,40 45 mph yes, some others 50 mph?

Are you having trouble taking off from the lights, on these type of roadways? Can you get to 40 mph quickly?

What about more residential streets, plenty of 4 way stops, those would be what 30 mph speed limits.

Now what about merging onto the Interstate, can you get enough runway and speed to merge safely into the slow lanes?

I know with my truck, even with 3.23 gears, I can take off in city streets and get to 30-45 mph in a decent time....

[Jeff Balazs]

Tim don't get me started on how people think they can drive here. A simple sanity test would take 80% of them off the road.

 

All wishing aside and driving conditions being what they are here I will be looking closely at these ideas. If there is a way to truly optimize this truck I will find it. Probably won't happen in one fell swoop. All it needs is a little more grunt and some fine tuning as far as the gearing goes. I am fairly certain I can get 10 to 20 HP out of it without diminishing reliability. This gearing thing is more complicated......but there will be an answer out there. I have been through this with motorcycles before and when you find the right combination it is a real transformation. In this case it is just going to be more work.

 

Fred it really isn't the speed limits so much as it is just the way these fools here behave. California is a grossly overpopulated state and the authorities lost control years ago. The result is that a high percentage of our drivers are erratic and inconsistent ....... in other words there is no way of predicting what their next move is. They pretty much do whatever they please with total impunity. Pull up to a stop light behind a few cars and when it changes to green you might have one burn rubber and another car stay put because they are texting or yelling at a passenger. Honestly it is a freak show and it is getting worse. All you can do is try to stay completely aware of what is going on around you. The distraction however short of double clutching or monitoring revs etc...cannot always be afforded.

I knew all along that driving a vintage truck in this mess was going to be a challenge. This is why I made a lot of the mods and alterations that I did. Falter in this traffic in the wrong place or at the wrong moment in front of a distracted driver and you will be sorry.....if you survive.

 

I am sure there are people out there that thought I was crazy fitting 4 wheel disc brakes to my truck. I got to use them this morning in the fog. ...when someone pulled out in front of me without looking I will tell you what they will shave speed off this truck like you can't believe and with no fuss at all. I have never had drum brakes perform this nicely. Period. So the extra time and work to do this has already been justified.  The same has been true of the ignition mod , the 6 volt alternator, the electric fuel pump and the lighting upgrades. And I have to figure that getting the gearing sorted out will be just as successful. The funny thing is that none of this would be needed if I lived and worked in a rural setting or only used the truck to go to a car show once in a while.  But then that's not what I am up against.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

jeff, do sympathize and can visualize what you are up against, and yes you are in the proverbial "rat race".

In your case it sure sounds like you absolutely need to take measures to overcome this, or find another vehicle to be your DD.

can you buy a donor truck, or get a dry clutch, the clutch housing, driveshaft etc? Going to a set-up like this, with a 5 spd or an A833 might give you all the grunt you need, with a better overall usable set-up.

Next thing, would you be willing to shave the head, split your exhaust, you could pickup about 10-20 more hp.

Going to a Torqueflite 904 or the AOD version, you need the adapter plate, new rear trans mounts, and you need to be 12 volts. This not cheap, or super easy to do either.

Last, would be a swap in of a 360/AT, which you do not want, from what I understand.

Ever thought of moving to Idaho, Montana or North Dakota, plenty of wide open spaces to drive.

[55 Fargo]

We've installed at least 2 Powerflites into 39-48 Dodge pickups, and 2 A-833's, all with 218/230/251/265 flatheads. We did these decades ago and unfortunately don't have any photos for DIY'ers, The Powerflite is an easy installation and works quite well, and requires no cooling lines as the later Torqueflites do. The biggest deal is the rear transmission mount, which varies depending on the chassis, otherwise it's pretty straightforward with all factory parts.

The A-833 requires a plate to accommodate the different bellhousing bolt patterns, and fabricating a shifter assembly to work with the cab configuration. Now that adapter plates are being made, this avoids the custom fitups we did 25 years ago (we just did 2 custom plates at the time using borrowed equipment).

The A-833 also requires some modification to a frame crossmember on some chassis, and it also requires that something be done for the emergency/parking brake. Solutions we used were driveline disc brakes and hydraulic valve parking brakes. The A-833 also requires a change in clutch plate to a later spline configuration, but otherwise allows you to keep the flathead starter, bellhousing, and clutch/brake setup. The overdrive 4th and all-syncro made this a great setup. I plan on doing it again for my '47 1/2 ton and probably for the '42 WD-21.

I am also very interested in this set-up too Jeff.

A833s are more money up here than T5s, to, not that it is a big deal.

Will it work well with a 3.23 rear end in my light truck, I wonder?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Fargos-Go-Far

[Jeff Balazs]

Fred;

I definitely want to get out of here. Our youngest daughter just got accepted into grad school at NAU in Flagstaff. It is a doctorate program so she be there for around 6 years. She has a meeting there this weekend and I am keeping my fingers crossed she likes it. If she moves there Momma is going to get a lot more cooperative on getting out of here......and that is a region I really like. Fingers crossed.

 

I am not buying another car.......this one will just have to work. But I will get spares and backups for this one. I suppose I would consider a transplant but that is sort of a last resort to me.

I am more likely to go for a power boost first. Headers...2 bbl and a slight shave. It seems there is no question a manual  conversion is easier but I haven't given up on an automatic yet. I just need to do more research. It is early days for all this.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Jeff, been to Flagstaff a time or 2, very beautiful, and close to the heat when you need it.....

[55 Fargo]

Here is a pic of me driving a 1964 Chevrolet panel, with a 292 standard, between San Diego and LA somewhere.

Do you recognize this Desert Oasis?

Circa 1980

[Don Coatney]

Jeff, Not sure about the weight difference between your truck and my car or if that would be an issue. Also not sure if your truck tires are larger than my car (27inch diameter) tires. I run a truck fully synchronized T-5 that has a granny gear. With the full synchronization I can down shift into first gear at 20 or so MPH without double clutching. I have a 3.55/1 differential, a 255CI engine with dual carburetors and exhaust. I am happy with this combination and it drives well. The few extra horses my engine makes I am sure make a difference.

 

If I were to change one thing it would be to select a car T-5 without the granny gear. I elected to use the truck T-5 transmission because of the shifter location. The car T-5 transmission shifter is located at the end of the tailpiece and this would have placed the gearshift in the middle of my bench seat. I have since learned that it is possible to swap out the T-5 tail piece between a car and truck transmission for correct shifter location. I did not know this when I did my T-5 install several years ago. An internet search will produce all available T-5 gear ratios.

 

Pictured below is a car T-5 showing shifter position. Below it is the shifter position on the truck T-5.

 

 

 

[Jeff Balazs]

Don;

I am sure your car has the power advantage going for it. Bigger engine that has mods.......probably a bit lighter and 27" tires versus 29" on my truck. Heck just that tire diameter difference is fairly significant.

I know that several people have used the T5 in trucks. It seems like they like it. Just looking at the photos you posted makes it look like even with the shifter forward it would be in my bench seat......and I really like the seat. Maybe these guys have put buckets in?......I don't want to do that. Just ruins the feel to me.

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

okay Jeff, and anyone else, lets go for a ride,

 

[wallytoo]

jeff,

 

can you use second more to start off with?  especially taking advantage of the fluid drive?  going into third & fourth should be fine, right?  you just don't get to downshift into second so easily.  man, i'd try a lot of things before switching to an auto tranny.

 

wally

[Jeff Balazs]

Fred;

Oh sure taunt us drought survivors with ditch's full of water. I had always thought Canadians were polite......but I can see you have a cruel streak. Don't be surprised when we invade.....

 

It was a little hard to tell from the video what your truck was actually driving like. I was distracted by all the stuff hanging from the mirror. That much hanging here and you would have an accident for sure. Besides it would block my heads up display.

 

 

Jeff

[55 Fargo]

Fred;

Oh sure taunt us drought survivors with ditch's full of water. I had always thought Canadians were polite......but I can see you have a cruel streak. Don't be surprised when we invade.....

 

It was a little hard to tell from the video what your truck was actually driving like. I was distracted by all the stuff hanging from the mirror. That much hanging here and you would have an accident for sure. Besides it would block my heads up display.

 

 

Jeff

Make sure your dressed warm when you come for the water, it'll be frozen......LOL

[Jeff Balazs]

Make sure your dressed warm when you come for the water, it'll be frozen......LOL

Hey we are not that fussy. We can use it as is in our margaritas.

 

Sad thing is before too long wars will be fought over it.

 

Fred your truck goes pretty nice. It is really hard to make any sort of comparison from this type of video but I think I could keep up with you. I can get to fifty pretty quick if I have a open level road ahead of me. Thing is here as I have tried to convey people here don't drive with any sense. Sometime I get stuck behind the ones that hang back.....and it is next to impossible to keep the truck in the power zone with the way it is. When they turn off suddenly (often without a signal) I am left with a big gap ahead of me and no way to close it up as quickly as the drivers behind me would like to see.

 

Jeff

[Plymouthy Adams]

the drivers behind you have the option of leaving home earlier if they in that big of a hurry...even in my daily driver, I like them fast boys in front of me as radar target..I'll give them the entire highway and wave as they are getting their blue light special to go...

[55 Fargo]

Hey we are not that fussy. We can use it as is in our margaritas.

 

Sad thing is before too long wars will be fought over it.

 

Fred your truck goes pretty nice. It is really hard to make any sort of comparison from this type of video but I think I could keep up with you. I can get to fifty pretty quick if I have a open level road ahead of me. Thing is here as I have tried to convey people here don't drive with any sense. Sometime I get stuck behind the ones that hang back.....and it is next to impossible to keep the truck in the power zone with the way it is. When they turn off suddenly (often without a signal) I am left with a big gap ahead of me and no way to close it up as quickly as the drivers behind me would like to see.

 

Jeff

Hey Jeff, I can understand, I think you have to face the facts on this one.

a) Can your truck with that drivetrain be a daily driver where you reside?

Can you make reasonable modifications to compensate for your driving environment

c) Do you need a modern powerplant, whether it be V8, modern inline 6, V6 or a diesel. 

I think you need to make some decisions on which way you want to proceed, as the way it is, won't cut it....