Engine Leaking Antifreeze

[55 Fargo]

The spoke with a large engine rebuilder this morning, the machinist has been with the company 30 years. He told me up till up 12 years ago he would usually have about 20 rebuilt flathead Chrysler 6s in stock, the last price they charged was about $800.00 US, now it's $2700 US for a complete rebuild. he las told he has seen a resurgence in the last couple of years with these engines and other old style engines. Bombardiers, farm equipment, he also mentioned they wer the service depot for Lincoln welders that had the 265 engines. He said these engines were good and tough, thus why they had so many applications, he also mentioned the most popular were the 251s.

He did tell me that I could try Silverseal, that it would go to the leak and seal it, he said the other portions of the silverseal would remain suspended in the system, just his opinion, he mentioned using products such as this with problem leaks many times in his career. He also uses Locktite on freeze plugs, just to make sure. He told me to check the rear of the head real well, as they are notorious for leaking also.

Shadetree or not, I will try silver seal and see what happens........Fred

[Merle Coggins]

Part of the reason for the plugs is to provide pressure relief if for some reason there is a problem within the coolant passages. Thats why they are sometimes are called freeze plugs, they are supposed to give and prevent cracks in the block.

True, Greg. But I believe the real reason that the holes are there is for removal of the casting form/sand when the blocks are made. And because the plugs are the weak point, if the coolant freezes they tend to pop out first, thus creating the name. Although if it freezes hard enough it can still crack the block.

Merle

[1just4don]

I dont think I would silverseal it. You are THIS close to fixing it right. Silverseal will only delay the problem. I dumped silverseal in an old car once,,,worst thing I ever did. Caused MORE heating issues(probably suspect cooling anyway)It wasnt a pressurized system either and I thought that caused most of it at the time,,,maybe not,thinking back,,,but its easier to do it right the first time. Just a few hours and your good sorta forever. Silverseal it and you will be fixing at a more inoportune time. Time gets worse as it goes by!!

[rearview]

I think you're working yourself into a frenzy here. You've got a 50+ year old car wit ha 50+ year old motor. Probably just a freeze plug.... these things happen. Pop it out, clean out the junk in your block and pop one in. If it is a minor crack, weld it. Enjoy the car.

There was a place on ebay recently that did have rebuilt flat6's for $750 USD. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130121754566&rd=1,1

But I think you are looking too deep into this.

Be an optimist here and let us know how easy it was

[55 Fargo]

Thanx Rearview, I have a tendancy to go to far to the left when problems happen...........Fred

[55 Fargo]

Okay made the decision to do the job the right way and discover what needs to be done. Will prep job tomorrow, remove driveshaft, trans, and what ever else. I will leave the removal of bellhousing until a day when I can give it 100 % for 8 hours.

This may turn out to be a good thing, as the inside of the bell housing is dirty. I will also reclean and paint driveshaft, trans bell housing etc. Make a decnt project out of it.

Thanx all for your help and support........Fred

[JIPJOBXX]

Good luck Fred!!!! Make sure you give us a report on what you find! Jon

[grey beard]

Fred,

Don't know beans about your automobile, but if it is like Dodge trucks, pulling the trans involves removing all the flooring because the pedals must come rearward along with the trans, and they protrude through the floor - most difficult part of pulling a trans on a truck.

Some years ago I learned of a space age coolant sealer made by Wynns Friction Proofing. I learned about it from my son who was then a Mercedes dealership service manager. He says it has fixed many Benz heater cores. Comes in a two-bottle pack along with a bottle of flush to use first. The stuff is made with cactus polymers. It will not clog anything, and only works when it comes into contact with outside air. It is used primarily by high end car shops to avoid replacing leaking heater cores. It is amazing stuff, costs less than twenty bucks, and I have never heard of anyone who used it and had it fail. Might be worth a try. JMHO

Good luck with a nasty job.

[Norm's Coupe]

Fred,

Don't know beans about your automobile, but if it is like Dodge trucks, pulling the trans involves removing all the flooring because the pedals must come rearward along with the trans, and they protrude through the floor - most difficult part of pulling a trans on a truck.

Dave,

On the cars (at least his) all he has to do is remove the center hump floor pan and disconnect the shift linkage, and drive shaft to drop the transmission. Even if he pulls the whole front floor section he can do it without moving the pedals. Only thing he'd have to do to get the floor out around the pedals is remove the pan bolts and the pedal pads and the floor will come out. Evidently it's a lot easier on the cars than it is on the trucks.

Actually, you can drop the transmission and pull the whole engine without removing any of the floor if you want in the cars. That's how I removed my engine and transmission when I rebuilt. My floor pans have never been out of the car since I owned it.

[55 Fargo]

Here are a few pics of the floor pan removed. There is lots of room, the rear mounts have seen better days, will replace those. Good opportunity to paint the floor pan, as I did last night.

Funny thing, there was next to nothing in the bell housing this morning for leakage, don't think it's possible that the antifreeze that blew in there las year sat in there spinning around, and once heated good and warm at a high rpm, was blown back out the bell housing vents and also leaked onto the floor, nah I doubt it, probably a slow leaking freeze plug.

[greg g]

You might be able to inspect your soft plugs condition by shining a good stron light into the vent opening. If they are not leaking You might be OK. Just a thought. long time ago, I had a Volvo 142. It would loose antifreeze and run hot one the level deminished. I had a pressure test done, check everything for leaks, changed the head gasket, the main hoses had the rad cleaned and checked. Everything was fine but the coolant still went away. Finally on a cool day I opened the hood and heard a very fain hiss ing after shutting the engine off, and then noticed a bit of steam coming up from what looked like the firewall. HMMMMM!! Upon further investigation, the short 3 inch piece of heater hose from the head to the valve was leaking so slightly that the stuff was evaporating or drying before it could drip. So after spending about 300 bucks the fix was 75 cents worth of heaterhose. GRRRRRRR!!!! So maybe check your heater valve, rear of head and hoses in the area. Could be leaking enough to get onto/ into the bellhousing area.

[55 Fargo]

No Greg, those areas are very dry and clean. Last year I had antifreeze, quite a lot blow up and onto the engine and go down the bell housing, it drenched the bell housing, but I am sure it would not have sta in there for a year and then starts sloshing around and leaking, or would it. Right now it's about dry in there.

Should I leave it a day or 2, or run the ngine to see if more leaks in. Or is it the freeze plug leaking intermittenly. Best bet is to pull of bell housing and look. My only fear is realigning the clutch and housing, as I have hear it can be a pain......Fred

[Don Coatney]

You might be able to inspect your soft plugs condition by shining a good stron light into the vent opening.

I believe the engine side of the bell housing blocks the view.

[Don Coatney]

Last year I had antifreeze, quite a lot blow up and onto the engine and go down the bell housing, it drenched the bell housing, but I am sure it would not have sta in there for a year ....Fred

Glycol antifreeze does not evaporate. The water in the antifreeze may evaporate over time.

[55 Fargo]

Hi Don, your right the glycol would not evaporate, maybe just my wishful thinking that it was splashed in the bellhousing somehow. I did find an old freeze plug from the side of the engine, it was prety rust pitted and thin on the inside end of it. I can see how th rear plugs could also be rusted through or a pinhole or 2........Fred

[PatS....]

This pic is of my old 251 that came out of the Chrysler. I popped the frost plug out so you could see it better. The engine is upside down on a dolly, but the best I could do. The other two are not frost plugs. I checked with the center punch just to be sure

[KINGSWAY52]

Hi all!

Seem's to be somthing like a flu that's going on with old flathead this year.

Last year my DODGE was suffering of a bad radiator, so I bouth one from Fred and the DODGE was like a new car for some week's.Today I was out on a testrun with my campingtrailer behind it,went well on the tripp but after installing an extra heater just to be sure that this year's vacation not beeing the same as last year I discover some antifreeze leaking in the back of the engine,so it seem's to bee the frezzeplug in the rear of my engie that'sl eaking

but I don't have time to lift out the engine and replase it now,I migth ask Fred to come to Norway and do the job since he already have done it :-).

I now for sure what to begin with later on........Roar

[55 Fargo]

Hi Roar, so now you have a good rad, from me I might add,LOL, and now you are cursed with a leaking freeze plug, up here in the great white north we call em frost plugs,"like we only get frost in Canada, not freezing".

Anyhews, I have not done the job quite yet, either I am going to do it next week, or a small country shop is going to do it.

Right now the trans and driveshaft are out, they are now cleaned up and painted, will post pics later.

Could it be, because the rads were flowing better, the leaks began through the rusty freeze plugs.

Now Roar, you just had the engine out, too bad you didn't pull the clutch and replace the freeze plugs, so get busy and do it again.

If you will pay for my airfare, I can arrange a time and come to Norway and install the freeze plug, tour the country and have a general good time....Fred

[55 Fargo]

How do you know for sure it's a freeze plug at the rear of the engine, check you r side plugs, sending unit on the head, feel the back of the head,( let engine cool down first).

I am really not sure this is a common problem for these 6s, could it be a lot of crud sits in the back of the engine, up against the rear plug, and they rust through.

Can hardly wait to get mine fixed, will sleep better after it's done, just the way I am.

I amvery tempted to pull the engine, and give it another good cleaning in the process and a new paint job, but really don't want to do this unless I am swapping or rebuilding. I have a 251 engine, it runs, but I would want to rebuild it first before it goes into the car, the engine I have now, runs great, at least for now.........Fred

[KINGSWAY52]

Well Fred If I only have Know at the time the engine was out I shoud have taken the time to wiat for the envelop from you with the plug's and replase all off them

but this is the way with old car's fixing somthing today and something else tomorrow.

Nearly all of my friend's say's I'm crazy to go on the tripp I'm planing to but I know my car and well it's me that's going to have the problem if any is coming.I don't think there is going to this year.I'll just have to take with me some water and antifreze. Beside that the DODGE is not overheating or boiling now so... The temp is steady around 100 degree celsius uphill and going down to 85 90 on the flatt at 75-85 km

[knighthawk]

glad to hear other people have these kind of problems ! There used to be a block sealer called ''KW'' block sealer,was in a silver can, I even used it to install a loose sleeve in a tractor once, and you got about 10 seconds to get the sleeve in ! There is difference between a block sealer and a rad sealer . BUT, in this case I would open it up and look at it, never know what you might find, plus you will sleep better afterward ! If your in question about weather the plug in leaking, just probe it alittle with an awl or something sharp, if it's leaking or thin, you'll know. But, as long as your are this far, you 'll change it anyway. After you install it, for a little insurance, cover the edge, or all of it with some ''JB weld.''