Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 Hello guys.. I just picked up a '50 Dodge B2 with a J25-C (C39701) transmission. It sat for over 30 years and I am attempting to revive it back to life. Long story short...I stuck a battery in it and turned it over. Turned over rather fast but seemed like no compression. Popped out the spark plugs only to find that the pistons were not moving though the engine was turning over (fan, crank pulley, etc was turning). Turned it over with the manual crank to the same result. I'm not that educated on these flat 6's. When turning the engine over manually, using the crank handle am I turning the crankshaft directly? I am assuming that the timing chain is snapped. None of the pistons move at all while turning it over so I wouldn't think that the crankshaft is broke...unless the break was before the number 1 piston. Any input would be appreciated! Thanks! David Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) as the pistons are connected to rods and the rods direct to the crank..to move the crank and no piston movement would say..no rods...or a broken crankshaft at very front bearing GIVEN the man is rotating using the crank bolt..if not another scenario is stripped out key, loose bolt and very loose damper/hub whatever may apply plugs out, you will see the valves and not the piston..if the valves are sticking open you could well spin fast..still have no compression and the little pistons streaking back and forth to beat the band...more probable scenario remove the access plug on #6 and carefully insert a rod and slowly turn over the engine by hand and observe if there is presence of crank stroke.. Edited March 30, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote
Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 Thanks for the quick response! Looks like a teardown for sure. I have another flat six that I can use out of a '50 Chrysler Royal parts car if this one is shot. It shouldn't be though. The pickup only has 31K on it. I guess I'll hope for the stripped key at this point. Thanks again! Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 not so fast there...measure the head of the Dodge and that of the Chrylser...am sure you will find they are 23 and 25 respectively..again..pull the access plug at cylinder 6 and check for stroke..if stroke present..you will next want to pull the head..you may only need valve work... Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) A lot of folks get upset with this line but...do yourself a favor and get a book for reference and understanding of the inner workings of the flathead 6 if you have the book...that is a plus...many good hints for checking this engine in there...... Edited March 30, 2015 by Plymouthy Adams 1 Quote
Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 I don't get upset...just oil soaked hands that don't come clean for a week...and bloody knuckles. Indeed I shall get a manual and look forward to a weekend of fun. Can't be any worse than workin' on that Hunk'O'german piece of engineering sitting in the garage, waiting for the salt to wash off the roads here in MN. Thanks again for your input Plymouthy. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 no no..I guess I did not say it right..it does not sit well with some of our members when that line is expressed in an answer to a new owner...they get the feeling we trying to run folks off...don't see that myself but I can't know the manner everyone interpret a written reply..welcome...another reponse is when we ask new folks to read the forum by means of search...enter a subject word when at the top of the forum page, not this page as it is only you and I talking...and you will get pages of material to brush up on on the average..makes for great reading and learning while you await the arrival of your book.. Quote
Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 Indeed I will check it out. One can not be too informed. I guess I was hoping for someone to have had a similar situation with a simple solution...like a bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil. But this will entail a days work and Wild Turkey. Quote
Brent B3B Posted March 30, 2015 Report Posted March 30, 2015 photo copy yourself a additional copy, i have two shop manuals, one for the shop (that i can mark up and take notes in) and a "clean" copy for the house. also use the member map, you are lucky there is a lot of great members in your area. pull that little plug over #6 like Tim said........ i had the same situation and it was indeed stuck valves. Quote
Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 photo copy yourself a additional copy, i have two shop manuals, one for the shop (that i can mark up and take notes in) and a "clean" copy for the house. also use the member map, you are lucky there is a lot of great members in your area. pull that little plug over #6 like Tim said........ i had the same situation and it was indeed stuck valves. Thanks Brent! Good idea on the photocopy. I wouldn't be surprised if the valves are stuck as this truck has sat and not been started for longer than some of the members of this forum have been alive...perhaps. Were you able to use the valves in your truck when they were stuck or did you have to replace them? I've not run across this particular situation before and, should it be the same, would want to do the correct thing. Quote
Leviathan Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Posted March 30, 2015 as the pistons are connected to rods and the rods direct to the crank..to move the crank and no piston movement would say..no rods...or a broken crankshaft at very front bearing GIVEN the man is rotating using the crank bolt..if not another scenario is stripped out key, loose bolt and very loose damper/hub whatever may apply plugs out, you will see the valves and not the piston..if the valves are sticking open you could well spin fast..still have no compression and the little pistons streaking back and forth to beat the band...more probable scenario remove the access plug on #6 and carefully insert a rod and slowly turn over the engine by hand and observe if there is presence of crank stroke.. I see you edited your first response Tim. What do you mean when you say that with the spark plugs out that you see the valves and not the piston? That doesn't make sense. That would be one h-e double toothpicks of a huge valve! Am I understanding this correctly? That is the combustion chamber under the spark plug. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 yeah...I had to ensure you understand plugs out you will see the valve..not the piston.. Quote
Leviathan Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Posted March 31, 2015 OK. Now I feel like a total moron. I thought I was seeing the piston through the spark plug hole. So the pistons are moving when I turn the engine over but the valves are not. Excuse me while I hide in the corner in embarrassment...waiting for my manual to arrive...so I can take this dunce cap off...maybe. Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 This is the pipe plug over #6 piston. As you can see the spark plug is over the intake valve and the pipe plug is over the piston. I believe your valves are stuck as that is common in an engine that has been out of commission for extended time periods. Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 it is good Don posted pictures..in absence of the book this will show you what is where in location to the plug and timing hole for #6 cylinder....don't hide yet..we not finished with you.......lol I would probably go ahead and pull the head..get a better view of what is happening or should I say not happening Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 While waiting on your manual go to the resources section of this web page found on the tool bar at the top of this page. Read everything there including the link to the DPETCA website. Quote
Young Ed Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 If you're ever down in the twin cities there are a couple of us with similar vehicles. My trucks a little older but the flathead part is all the same. Quote
Brent B3B Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Thanks Brent! Good idea on the photocopy. I wouldn't be surprised if the valves are stuck as this truck has sat and not been started for longer than some of the members of this forum have been alive...perhaps. Were you able to use the valves in your truck when they were stuck or did you have to replace them? I've not run across this particular situation before and, should it be the same, would want to do the correct thing. my particular case was I did a forum search, read plenty of good advice on how to free them, got impatient and ended up replacing all of them While waiting on your manual go to the resources section of this web page found on the tool bar at the top of this page. Read everything there including the link to the DPETCA website. under resources, tech tips, setting valves at the top of the search bar. Merle and I were discussing there might be an error in the "A and B sequence" of valve adjusting ...... Quote
Don Coatney Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 my particular case was I did a forum search, read plenty of good advice on how to free them, got impatient and ended up replacing all of them under resources, tech tips, setting valves at the top of the search bar. Merle and I were discussing there might be an error in the "A and B sequence" of valve adjusting ...... Did you report the error to the site administrator? 1 Quote
Leviathan Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you all so very much! Very helpful. Perhaps my bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil might do the trick after all. (JK). Young Ed...I am in the cities fairly often. Look for my black Chrysler Windsor, which I've not had to do any work on the engine luckily. Ill keep an eye out for the club coupe. Don. Thank you very much for the photos. Clear as a bell now. I'll learn to navigate this site as to not be such a doorknob in the future. At least the first part of that last sentence is correct... Quote
Young Ed Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 You can pull the side covers to see if the valves are moving. You can try and soak them with MM oil or ATF. If that doesn't do it procede to pulling the head. Its a quick job the hardest part is not ruining the temp gauge. Be very careful with that as its all one piece from the head to the dash. If you can't get it free with just the nut knocking out the plug in the head will give you more access to head spray push etc Hit the valves with a rubber mallet and get them moving again. Personally I would spray the head gasket(assuming it came off intact) with silver spray paint and reuse it until you've gotten the engine running. You may end up pulling it again to free valves. Quote
Brent B3B Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Did you report the error to the site administrator? I did not, I will, I like being a part of the forum and didn't want to over step my boundaries. Quote
ggdad1951 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Posted March 31, 2015 Awesome! Another Minnesotan! Welcome! Quote
Leviathan Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Posted March 31, 2015 Awesome! Another Minnesotan! Welcome! Oh yahh! We're all over 'd place don't ya know... Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.