Rebuilding a P10 front end

[Cpt.Fred]

I can't hear you...lalalalalalalaaaa....

 

 

When i was talking about the rubbers and pivot bars i meant more like

"how the heck do i get the pivot bars in between the arms with the rubbers in place?

There's not enough room for that..."

 

I'm going to try fierce pressure later on, just have to find a way to safely clamp the a-arms while doing so...

maybe the rubber deforms just enough to let the bar slip in place.

[Niel Hoback]

Don't forget the soapy water lube.

[fstfish66]

totally agree no  repops for me,,,doing a gas tank now,,, using  a  tank from  tanks inc,,aluminum  coated steel,,,nice tank  heavy,baffeled,,,ill do  some  pics of the  install  sooon,,,

 

after seeing the  repoped  suspension parts  ,,,ide hate to see where and what the  repop tanks are made of,,,

[Andydodge]

Fred, leave the rubber pieces off, insert the upper pins into the A arms, the rubber pieces only need to be even 3/8th wide, maybe have one on when you insert the upper arm then once its inside the A arm try to push the rubber piece on the threaded arm that's protruding thru the A arm "hole" .........then once each piece of rubber is "bottomed" against the mounting boss of the upper pivot start to thread the pivot bushes equidistant onto the pivot pin threads............lol.........does any of this make sense?..........as Neil mentioned some soppy water or even a light wipe of grease as that's what they are going to be sealing against anyway.................ain't old cars just a heap of fun?..........lol..........any joy re the bearings and seal?...........andyd    

[Cpt.Fred]

ok, i think i get it. maybe.

ordered the bearings yesterday, timken originals.

seals, tie rod ends and bumpers from bernbaum.

 

i also need a hint on which shock to run in the front when i convert to upper truck mounts.

 

was also thinking about getting door weather striping and cowl vent gasket from Steele,

while i'm burning money anyway... does anyone here have experience with fitting accuracy?

 

man, this is getting way more pricey than i thought, but hey, it will all be worthwhile in the end. i hope.

[Jim Yergin]

 

i also need a hint on which shock to run in the front when i convert to upper truck mounts.

 

I am using  Gabriel 81676 shocks.

 

Jim Yergin

[Cpt.Fred]

Thanks a lot, Jim!

[Andydodge]

Bummer.........wish you'd mentioned the cowl vent seal before.....I got one from Steele and its the right overall shape but completely wrong in profile and they wouldn't exchange it , told me I didn't know ****........lol....I'll try to find a pic so you know what NOT to get........lol......ended up getting the correct style from either Berbaums or Roberts, can't remember now but it should be a "D" shaped profile with a lip extending up about 2-3mm all around the inner edge, it is a nice fit into the cowl and the vent lid closes down onto it ........andyd

Edited February 4, 2015 by Andydodge

[Andydodge]

Fred, found the pics I had, they are on the thread "Cowl Vent Rubber Seal" that I started 23/9/2012.......there is a pic showing the correct side profile of the seal you need, I didn't want to cut into the $60.00 piece of crap that Steele sent.....lol.............andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

Thanks Andy.

After reading your thread and chuckling about parts made in China,

i'm still confused about where to buy the seal. My Bernbaum seal didn't fit at all the last time.

So maybe i should go for VPW.

 

Got the pivot bars squeezed into the upper control arms.

Will take some pics in the afternoon if i find the time.

[pflaming]

Just started reading this thread because I have a P24 [53] to rebuild or ???. Question, how similar are the front suspensions from '48 - '54. Where, if any, are the changes?

[Cpt.Fred]

well, you definately have different upper control arms and brakes.

basically it will be quite similar, but the devil's in the details.

I posted the drawings and parts list of the P10 front axle earlier,

so one can compare parts numbers.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Cpt.Fred

[Andydodge]

Paul, as far as I know the upper arms are the same from 1941 thru to 1956........there maybe slight differences in the way the sway bar mounts to the lower arm/spindle but everything I've ever seen indicates the upper arms are the same.....andyd

Edited February 5, 2015 by Andydodge

[deathbound]

Fred, the front shock mounts from at least the '37/'38 Plymouth (with tube axle) are nearly identical to what you posted in post #71. Not that they are that common, may help broaden your search. Let me know if you want a pic of mine. Coming along nicely. Derek

[Andydodge]

For front shock cast steel mounts the 37/38 Plymouth/dodge front ends, and both Mopar Pilothouse pickup trucks into the early 50's and Frod F1 pickups also into the early 50 use virtually the same type of shock mount.....I have not seen any comparision between the 3 types although I think the mopar pairs(37/38 & pickups) are the same........andyd

[Cpt.Fred]

upper arms are ready to go back in.

that is as soon as i get to clean the frame and wheel housings...

 

[Andydodge]

Fred........you've done well..........any joy re the wheel bearings and seals?.......andyd

[deathbound]

Looking good! Are you going to cut off the shock studs, since you're going to relocate the shocks?

[Cpt.Fred]

Thanks, Andy! Look at those nice NOS excentric bushings, don't they look just swell on my a-arms?

I got a good deal on the Timken bearings at my friend's US parts dealer,

so they'll come together with all the other parts i'm ordering via the next container shipment.

End of march is what they told me. Cross my fingers.

 

Hey Derek, good to see you're still following this!   I guess i have to cut the shock mount studs on the uppers,

otherwise they won't fit in there, right? I just think i'll wait until i have everything here and mocked up before i make the cuts.

Somehow i learned during the process that 1940 Mopar suspension parts don't really grow on trees anymore...

 

Anyway, i got to do some more close measuring on those parts, it's kinda tricky to get the bushings aligned correctly

without tensioning the bushing's threads too much.

Here's to all the people in need of the correct measurements to align the pivot bars, control arms and all that stuff:

 

 

Note the differences between the different years of manufacture. Verrrry interrressssting.

 

Also note the infamous Chrysler special tools used here. I found out that in new condition the control arms came without threads

and the bushings cut their way in during the first installation. So i have to deal with the old threads now and hope they'll help me

set up everything correctly without the tool C-594. 180 footpounds are to be applied on the lower inner bushings...

calls for a heavy heavy monster torque wrench!

Edited February 11, 2015 by Cpt.Fred

[Andydodge]

Fred......once the bushings have cut their way into the arms and are tight they ain't gunna move.....180 footpounds is justa bit EXTRA tight...eat an extra can of spinnage, most torque wrenches should go that far........also I've found that its worth sticking a grease gun onto the bushes before you finally tighten them and bolt them back on............and are you saying that you had to get the bearings from the USA?......not available in Germany?....that surprises me or was it a case of a better price...that I CAN understand tho'.....lol....have done the same thing.......andyd

Edited February 11, 2015 by Andydodge

[Cpt.Fred]

It was just a matter of cost, plus i can get all the stuff from one hand.

He's a good friend and into all kinds of car stuff, mostly hi-powered engines and 60s muscle,

so he knows where to get things and we can gather all the parts in the US to have them shipped

over together with the project cars and engines for the other customers.

Saves you a lot of shipping fees and to put sugar on top he gets dealer discounts in many shops...

He was always very helpful.

 

I'll see how tight i can get the bushings, and i guess you're right about the torque.

Of course every bushing gets grease filled before assembly and i put the grease nipples on afterwards

to allow the grease escape the bushing when i screw them on.

I'll pack them all with a full load before i bolt things back to the frame.

[Cpt.Fred]

measuring, measuring, and more measuring...

always hard to take proper photos alone.

I need a third hand or, even better, a second set of arms.

 

 

aaaand the deed is done, i got the pivot bars and bushings back in the lower control arms.

that was pretty tough, just like i imagined... needed several attempts to get it right without the tool

and the work bench and bench vice should be properly attached to almost everything that is nearby.

 

 

measuring...

 

 

next is to take these guys to a friend to have the bushings pressed in and reamed out.

 

[1952B3b23]

You're doing a great job Fred. Thanks for taking the time to document all you're doing. I'm really enjoying this thread.

-Chris

[DonaldSmith]

Fred, I see that you are using the very rare Stanley 16-foot, imperial measurement, steel measuring tape, copyright Stanley Works 1988.  I wonder how much they are going for, on e-bay over there? 

 

The U.S. had a brief dalliance with the metric system years ago, but it didn't catch on, except for science and for global manufacturing.  At the time of its big push here, I quipped that I wouldn't touch the metric system with a 3-meter pole.  (That's about 10 ft, folks.)

 

Canada bought into the metric system, officially.  But my seasoned cousins still think in imperial terms.  I recited for them a Celsius poem that I had heard:  "30 is hot, 20 is nice, 10 is cool, and zero is ice."   I received lukewarm thanks (about 37 degrees Celsius).

[Cpt.Fred]

Thanks, Chris!

 

Donald, you caught me, the mighty Stanley Corp. is actually paying me for doing this thread.

I am delighted by the superiour quality of their products, and my car would drive much worse without them. Harrrharrr...

 

Believe me, i'm getting blisters on my brain cortex from switching between metric and imperial.

I bought some imperial measuring devices years ago to avoid the conversions,

but i founder every time when it comes to things like 5/32" or whatever,

i honestly and fervently hate all kinds of fractions, i simply cannot deal with them.

And they're not on the measuring tape anyway, at least not to my eyes. I need my decimal points.

 

So, after i took all these nice pictures for my imperial friends,

i secretly double checked every part with my metric measuring tape

and converted all the dimensions to metric numbers more suitable for my euro-brain...