Car is back together but still won’t start!

[Ulu]

The pitting is pretty bad, plus that one looks stretched to me, but that's a forged bolt.  They're not as uniform as a bolt where just the head is forged.

 

When you re-use a bolt you don't know if that bolt has ever been over-torqued.

[perrymedik]

Update:

 

-Valve train compartment cleaned.

-Oil Pan pulled and Tappets, Crankshaft, Piston Rod assembly, Block walls, Camshaft, Oil pipes, and anything else visible and accessible, were cleaned, inspected, then wiped down with fresh oil on a clean rag.

-Camshaft, Crankshaft, Bearing Journals, and Piston arms inspected for excessive wear and play.

-Oil Pan cleaned, gasket inspected and re-installed.

 

All in all everything is looking very good under there.  The #1 Exhaust tappet is now freed up after cleaning and lubrication.

 

Thats going to be about it for me for the next two weeks or so.  I will return home at the end of the month.

 

The last thing I am going to do is pull the old distributor cap off and spray the internals with QD Electronic Cleaner and then re-cover it once it dries to make sure that all the components are clean and ready to go when I return home.  But before I spray it, I wanted to see if anyone knows if spraying it is a bad idea or not.  The Service Manual doesn't mention anything about that either way.

 

I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving!!

[Geekay]

Great thread.

Congrats Cory on "having a crack"......always interesting to start a project completely different to what you do on work day. I suspect I am about to experience some of the same frustrations as soon to see if my 251 in the 1953 Suburban Van will fire. Luckily for us there are lots of resources available for those willing to research the problem. Difficulty is though when we incorrectly "diagnose" the complaint and start a fix that isn't suited (like your "flooding" carby with float problems..turns out to be an unplugged hole!)

[larryconnors]

Did you have the distributor out? If you did, it's easy to put it back in 180 degrees out.  Try taking it out, turning the rotor 180 and putting it back in. Excuse me if this has already been considered or ruled out. I once put mine in 180 out. That's why I know how easy it is to do.

[Lloyd]

Did you have the distributor out? If you did, it's easy to put it back in 180 degrees out.  Try taking it out, turning the rotor 180 and putting it back in. Excuse me if this has already been considered or ruled out. I once put mine in 180 out. That's why I know how easy it is to do.

 

Try bringing number #1 cyl to firing position on the timing marks first being certain its on power stroke and not exhaust. Then install distributor with rotor pointing at #1 on the cap.

[perrymedik]

I'm back!  Massachusetts was great!  We got 10 inches of snow for Thanksgiving!!!  Love it!!

 

 

 

 

 

Now it's time to put this beast back together and make it run!  I'll keep you posted!!!

 

(I know you're all as excited as I am, I can feel it!   )

[perrymedik]

Valve train re-installed.  Now ain't that just pretty!!

 

 

 

Now to put the Cylinder cover back on!

[perrymedik]

Greeting good Motor Heads and Wrench Turners!!

 

The Engine has been re-assembled (with exception of radiator and coolant hoses to facilitate access to vibration damper to hand turn motor), and all electrical connections made with freshly charged battery in place.

 

I tried to do the static testing as described in the Tech Tips page, but no luck.  I can not get my tester bulb to light.

 

I have installed the correct rotor and cap (matched to the Distributor).  I also verified that my tester was operating by placing the leads on the Pos and Neg poles of the battery.  I then verified that the #1 Cylinder was at TDC by using the access hole over #6, checked that the Rotor was at 7 o’clock, and that the Intake and Exhaust valves on #1 were both closed.  So far so good.

 

I then removed the lead from the #1 Spark Plug and inserted my tester tip into it and connected the other end of the tester to the ground cable end that bolts onto the Cylinder Cover.  Next I turned on the ignition and rotated the Distributor fully clock-wise to the stop, then slowly counter clock-wise to the stop, but no light.  I did this several times but with no luck.

 

Then I removed the spark plug wire to test it.  I had replaced the wires years ago when I first started working on the car. They are the kind that you cut to length.  I was thinking maybe I did it wrong.  So connecting one end of the tester to the wire and the other end still to the ground, I placed  the other end of the plug wire to the NEG (-) pole of the battery.  The tester did NOT light. 

 

This could be a problem, but I’m not sure.  When I had weeks ago attached the in-line test bulb each plug wire illuminated when I cranked the motor with the starter.  So I am confused with that.

 

Thinking that this could be a problem I took at set of leads and attached one end into the #1 hole of the distributor cap and verified that the connection was good by using my test light.  This was good.  So I again set up the test and did the directed clockwise and counter-clockwise rotations, but still no light on my tester.

 

Here is were it gets interesting to me and I need some clarification because I re-read the entire Ignition System Chapter again from my Service Manual (Plymouth Adams!! ).  I then started to check for voltage within the Distributor.

 

I first noticed that when I placed my meter on either side of the Points (as they are in the closed (Touching) position) that I was getting no Voltage.  When I would take my meter lead and push the Point open I would get 6.31V.   I repeated this with my test light.  With the points closed it would not light.  Pushing the point open it would light.

 

If I understand the points correctly, their contact causes the current to pass through and on to the plugs, however it would seem that when they are closed (touching one another) that this does not happen.

 

So two questions:

 

1.  Should the spark plug wires pass the 6v current to light the tester when placed in line with the battery and ground? (I assume yes, and think new / correct wires are in order)

 

2. What is up with the points and not getting power across them? 

 

I don’t know where to go next with this.

Thanks in advance!!

Cory

[Don Coatney]

Position the crankshaft at top dead center with piston #1 in the compression stroke. With the distributor cap removed rotate the distributor while you watch the points to see if they make and break. Then note your rotor position at the exact time the points break. Then insure the spark plug wire #1 in the cap lines up with where the rotor is pointing.

[DonaldSmith]

Lessee.  (Forum-speak for Let's see)  When the points are closed, there's power to the primary circuit of the coil.  When the points open, the coil generates a high-voltage secondary current which the rotor directs to the appropriate plug.  Zap! 

 

Are you using the same tester for the low-voltage circuits as for the spark plug wires? 

 

If you want to check when the points close, connect a low voltage tester (or light bulb) between the ground and the wire coming out the side of the distributor that runs to the coil.  (You may have to disconnect the coil end of the wire.  Would the coil draw too much current to leave any for the tester? Idunno.  ((forum-speak for I don't know.)) )

 

If you want to check the spark from the coil or from the distributor, you need a high voltage tester, like a neon gizmo.  Some devices connect from the plug wire to a handy ground.  Harbor Freight sells some spark testers that connect from the wire to the plug.  (Buy six of them and you could put on a light show.)   

[Ulu]

Ok, the juice through the points does NOT go to the plugs. It goes to the primary winding of the coil. Current from the secondary winding of the coil goes to the plugs, after going through the rotor and cap.

 

That secondary current doesn't flow with the points closed. They must close then open to cause it.

 

When they open, the current in the primary winding stops, and a change in the magnetic field causes current to flow in the secondary winding by induction. The condenser makes it happen faster and stronger.

 

If you take off the cap, touch the center coil wire from the coil near to the head, and with the key on, open & close the points by hand with a little wood or plastic stick, a good spark should jump from the coil wire to the head.

 

If not, the coil, coil wire or primary wire to the distributor is probably bad, or the condenser might be bad. Also the little wire from the points to the distributor advance plate might be bad. Also the coil may be ungrounded.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ulu

[Dave72dt]

You can use the test light on the points opening to static time it.  When they open is when the coil sends it's power to the  plugs.  That's your static timing mark.  If you have your points gapped correctly and the points start to open when you come up to TDC or whatever the timing spec is, it'll be right.  As you said, the light comes on when the points open.  You want the light to come on exactly when it reaches your desired timing mark.

[perrymedik]

[perrymedik]

Don: Following your advice I have discovered the following:

 

1. With the Distributor Cap off I rotated the distributor fully clockwise and found that I had to turn it to the extreme counter-clockwise position before the points began (important) to open.

 

2. I rechecked my gap between the points and found that it was not the needed .020.  However I knew that I had just checked them and they were satisfactory.  I then hand turned the vibration damper clockwise and at the 10 degree mark the points were full open to the .020 gap.  However at this point the piston has begun to descend.  Not drastically, less then 1/16 of an inch, but I could see my piston marker move.

 

So at this point I am not sure what I need to do.

 

I am thinking that I need to put it back to TDC and 0 degrees and then open the gap to .020, but am not certain.  Additionally I don't know if this indicates a larger problem and am crossing my fingers that my idea is correct or if it is something else that it is an easy fix.

 

Thanks for the guidance!  Standing by to move!

 

Cory

[Don Coatney]

The points do not fully open until the point cam is at the highest peak. However by then the plugs would have already fired as they fire the instant the point to point contact is interrupted. I don't recall if we discussed the second timing adjustment slot underneath the distributor as pictured below. You may need to use this slot to get everything in range.

 

[1941Rick]

Cory....the moment the points open spark occurs. the gap continues to open as the engine rotates. This should happen at TDC, or where you have your timing set.

I would advise you to have some one who understands these engines come to your shop and get it running. These engines are simple in their operation. You are getting so much information coming your way you may be getting overloaded. Good luck.

[perrymedik]

Don: No we did not.  Let me go look into that!  That sounds like a pretty simple fix!

 

1941Rick:  Thanks for the info.  I wish I could have someone come over!  At this point I would buy them Beer and Cigars for coming! Unfortunately I don't know anyone.  I'm in it alone locally.  All I have is you awesome folks!!

[Dave72dt]

First get your points set when they are fully open. If you noticed which way the rotor turns when you turned the motor over, twist the distributor to it's stop in the same direction.  Now rotate your crankshaft backwards past your TDC mark a bit, then  bring it back to the TDC mark and stop.  Now, with your tester hooked up to your points and power on,, turn the distributor slowly back until the tester lights up and lock it down.

 

Wherever the rotor is pointing is where you insert the plug wire for # 1.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Dave72dt

[perrymedik]

In case anyone is UNAWARE: Don Coatney is the MAN!!!!!!!!

 

Static Timing complete.

 

Don, thank you so much for helping me figure out what the problem was, down to that one last stupid seemingly insignificant thing that apparently made all the difference in the world.

 

You rock out loud!!!

 

Time to put the plugs in, hook up the plug wires and fill up the oil and see if this car will play nice.  Today could be the day.  It just might me.

 

I'm not holding my breath.  Neither should you.

 

Thanks to everyone for all of their help!!  I can't express it enough!

 

Cory

[perrymedik]

Gentlemen,

I present to you the result of all of YOUR hard work.

My hats off to you.

[Merle Coggins]

Good job!!

 

Looks like you have a coolant leak. Is it coming from the water pump? It looked like the fan was slinging it.

 

Merle

[1950 Special Deluxe]

Great sound and a great feeling.

[AlDeBear]

Way to go perrymedik! Sounds good!

[1941Rick]

Its alive, its alive.......

[casper50]

Congrats.  That was a relieve I bet.