Geekay Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Need some help with with how to wire up this starter motor. My Fargo did not have a starter motor so not sure how it was originally wired. It is a 12v and want to temporarily use this 6v whilst getting motor going and until 1 get get hold of a 12v SM. The fargo has a starter button inside the engine bay with only one heavy lead coming from it. The starter motor has 2 bolts to attach leads to. One goes to the starter via a copper bracket which I assume will be the positive. Perhaps I need a seperate earth lead to go from the other bolt to engine body (or bolt where starter attaches to ring gear) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Pretty sure your battery cable end goes on the post on the right of your photo. I believe that box on the starter may be a relay so I'm not too sure why they used such a heavy duty inline switch. There should also be a nut on the left post to clamp the buss and make a good connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 It appears you have 2 relays. You'll have to activate both relays to get that starter to work or bypass the one on the firewall. The smaller posts on the starter will need to be wired in to activate it and engage the drive. It may work by wiring the small posts on each in series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBF Posted November 7, 2014 Report Share Posted November 7, 2014 I wonder if this setup is peculiar to rh drive vehicle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 The 6v starter has been serviced and about to bolt it on...see pic (clean and black now). I have tested it with my jump start pack. With the positive lead on the right hand side larger post, negative attached to the body of the starter and a wire running from were the positive lead is attached to the small post above it, the bendix flys out and spins the correct way (anti clockwise, so that the engine gear spins clockwise) Now, how do I achieve the same result with the existing wiring set up on the truck..see pic. As I understand it the usual 6v system is differently grounded to my 12 v system. The thick cable running from my battery to the engine bay comes from the negative post of battery. Firstly it goes to an additional stand alone solenoid (extra starter button in the engine bay). If i attach that brown cable to the same post as where I put the positive jumper lead, I assume I will need to run an additional wire from the starter button positive side (where the red and black wires come from the ignition) to the smaller post on the starter solenoid to replicate what I did with jump starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 I had a closer look at the starter button in the engine bay and found some answers. At the bottom of this button the various wires/leads are seperated by black insulated segmented plates (like bakerlite). I gather there are some links built it that make it all work. The heavy brown lead for the starter is actually joined to the red positive wire (I assume) from the ignition. The heavy black lead from the neg post on the battery is seperate to all the others. The other thin black wire is seperate too...not sure what that does? So I just bolted on the starter motor and connected the heavy brown lead to the large post on the right side of starter. Then (wishing) I hooked up a 12 battery with some charge, turned the key, pressed the start button, and bingo...some reaction from the starter motor. Was just a loud click and not a full operation of the bendix. I also noticed that the dash light behind the speedo was working..just good to know soem of the electric wires still working. I am hoping that the battery did not have enough charge to fully engage the bendix and have put it on the charger. Will know tomorow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggdad1951 Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Just be careful if old wiring....can go bad fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Success!! Did away with the additional solenoid/starter button in the engin ebay and finally worked out the wiring. The Fargo now cranks over when I turn on key and push starter button. Now.....can I get it to start???? (or at least some cyclinders to fire). First check I have power to the coil and then the distributor and then the points and then to spark plugs. Fingers crossed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Pic of how I wired it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Pic of how I wired it. Yikes! At least cover that connection with insulating electrical tape, if that touched something you will have some serious issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Yikes! At least cover that connection with insulating electrical tape, if that touched something you will have some serious issues. Yeah, I agree. This was just how it looked when I was testing various connections to get the right combination so the starter cranked vi ath eignition key and starter button. Now I have disconnected and will do some work on those wires/cables like replacing the end connectors as probably some corrotion/deterioration there. Next step to see if I can get spark at the plugs. Here's hoping the coil, distributor and leads are okay to do this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 You should be able to do away with that heavy brown cable going to the starter and hook your heavy black cable and the red one directly to the starter post. the heavy red wire is probably going to the amp gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 You should be able to do away with that heavy brown cable going to the starter and hook your heavy black cable and the red one directly to the starter post. the heavy red wire is probably going to the amp gauge. Agree Dave. it was just that the battery cable didn't quite reach the starter motor post so temporarily joined the brown to it, Will need to replace that arrangement. I am not sure yet where the red one goes but I will check at the back of the amp gauge. Thanks for suggestion. Spent a couple of hours again today and when the key is turned on I have power via the coil to the distributor and at the points. Just cannot get any power at the end of any spark plug leads when I put dissy cap on. Took off some plug leads and they are carry power through them so not sure why. I cleaned the inside of dissy at contact points and checked the lead from centre of dusisy back to the centre of coil. Maybe there is something else not working correctly with the distributor. I am reluctant to take the other wires etc apart inside the dissy until I have eliminated any other obvious problems. Any suggestions appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanksB3B Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Coils go bad and worn wires can short out within the distributor. It is not uncommon to find that many of the problems you will discover are due to previous owners or mechanics doing less than top quality work and the occasional "Detroit could have done better" (fortunately these are few). Here's a link to my past distributor problems. http://p15-d24.com/topic/35791-distributor-woes-be-gone/ Hope this helps, Hank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merle Coggins Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Spent a couple of hours again today and when the key is turned on I have power via the coil to the distributor and at the points. Just cannot get any power at the end of any spark plug leads when I put dissy cap on. Took off some plug leads and they are carry power through them so not sure why. I cleaned the inside of dissy at contact points and checked the lead from centre of dusisy back to the centre of coil. Maybe there is something else not working correctly with the distributor. I am reluctant to take the other wires etc apart inside the dissy until I have eliminated any other obvious problems. Any suggestions appreciated. If you have power at the coil and at the connection to the distributor that means that the points aren't providing a ground for the coil. It may be because they are open, or it could be that they aren't conducting current across the contacts, or there could be a disconnect between the distributor - coil terminal and the points. If you connect your test light, or volt meter, to the distributor terminal when cranking the engine, the light/voltage should blink on and off as the ground makes and breaks (points close and open) When the points close they complete the circuit for the primary coil in the Ignition Coil which creates a magnetic field. When the distributor turns and the points open the current through the primary coil is interrupted and the magnetic field collapses.This induces voltage in the secondary coil of the Ignition Coil. That voltage is looking for a path to ground so it exits through the coil wire into the distributor cap, through the rotor, and to the spark plug wire it's passing by, then on to the spark plug where it finds it's ground by jumping the gap and causing a spark. If any of those pieces are missing you will not get spark to ignite the fuel mixture in the cylinder. Good luck Merle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geekay Posted December 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Thanks Merle for the succint explanation of how the coil functions in relation to the distributor. I now know i didn't fully understand what was happening re the spark at plugs. Someone once said something like "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing"....but i enjoy learning. Have to keep the brain sparking too!! Or I could quote your Mr Rumsfeld "There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, there are unknown unknowns...and them's the dangerous ones"..(SIC). Love that quote.....even better than some of George Jnr's (although I probably should not bring up your politics on this forum) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave72dt Posted December 7, 2014 Report Share Posted December 7, 2014 Maybe it's really simple, like the rotor isn't installed. I've seen that happen before, especially when someone just worked on the points. if using a test light to check power, that light should flash on and off when hooked to the dis side of the coil and engine is turning over. If it does not, you have some work to do in the distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenailer Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 any chance you have the part number for the starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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