Ball & Ball DTC1 leak

[CKHughes]

So 48 pulled out of about 2 years of storage...running when stored. Cleaned out fuel pump and carb glass bowls and am running from small plastic tank just below fuel pump. It ran for 3-4 seconds on starting fluid. I noticed the carb ( Ball & Ball DTC1) has a severe leak at the valve/flap that dumps gas into the manifold. The leak is on the outside of carb (see round pin end in photo).

 

I am fairly certain this is the carb I had rebuilt a few years back but I also have a D1E2 and many spare, left over gaskets from the NAPA rebuild kit. This pin/valve does not appear to have a paper gasket that I can see...does it need to be fully disassembled and what do I need to make it stop leaking?

 

What should I pay if I have a shop rebuild the carb? Which model B&B should I rebuild? Is there another carb(s) that would work and is that a better, more cost effective way to get the truck running? is there a You tube on rebuilds or a shop manual online somewhere?

thanks Chris

[JBNeal]

These flathead carbs have trouble after being stored for extended periods.  Parts & passageways get gummed up, causing the main jet to dribble more than the Globetrotters, and the float needle can get stuck, causing the carb to look like it has a severe leak.  I'm guessing you've got this combination, and instead of the fuel being sprayed down the venturi and drawn into the manifold by vacuum at startup, it dribbles out the jet, puddling on the throttle valve and seeping out at the valve shaft.  After being in storage, it might be a good idea to disassemble & clean what you have to verify that everything is within specifications.  Whenever I've had a truck sit for a season or two, at a minimum I pull the air horn and rinse out the venturi and float chamber with spray brake cleaner, work the accelerator free if it's stuck, then fill the chamber with fresh gasoline and let soak for a few hours after assembly.  Most of the time, this leads to a fast re-fire, especially if a little starting fluid is used for some help.  Originally this meant getting a new carb kit, but one time I needed the 1-ton in a pinch and was able to carefully re-work the carb without the need of that kit.  This meant taking great care in disassembly not to tear any gaskets or lose any small parts into the cracks in the ground.  It has been years since I put a new carb kit on, as I have almost perfected the curb-side rebuild with the use of a flat blade screwdriver, a needle-nose pliers, a shop rag and some metered gas

 

Rebuilding the B&B is not too difficult, but as with any carb rebuild, attention to detail & cleanliness are key.  YouTube has several videos available, I put "B&B carburetor" in the search field and got several vids, one being part 1 of a rebuild after thorough cleaning, there are others on adjustment, etc.  I reckon since the carb was rebuilt fairly recently, the innerds aren't too fouled up, just needs a good rinsing to get the moving parts & the jet to work as they should.  Now if you want to change carbs, then you're opening up a can of worms, as a change in induction should be balanced with a change in exhaust.  I've heard the 2" tailpipe does wonders, as does the split exhaust, especially if going to a 2bbl setup.  But now you are talking a major project, when all ya might need is a few things sitting around the garage
 

[Don Coatney]

I agree with the float valve not seating. Such a condition will allow gas to leak out as pictured above.

[Young Ed]

Possibly also a leaky float. I had a severe flooding condition one spring because my float had filled with gas over the winter.

[CKHughes]

Ok, so I took carb apart which was easier than I thought. Found this very useful manual - in case it could help others: http://c809017.r17.cf2.rackcdn.com/carter_bb_manual_1939_later.pdf

My pump jet was clogged...could not see light through it and then pushed a needle through and cleared it out, then "saw the light" . The float is fine - submerged it in water and then dried it. main jet looks ok except for the gasket which is a little suspect but how can you test that? I'd replace if I knew where to get one (that is without waiting a week to have a whole kit by web purchase which I found here: http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Carter-BB-BBR1-Carburetor-Rebuild-Kit_p_56.html. Manually pumping the fuel valve on carb, that little pump jet squirts like crazy now !

 

Was all excited to reinstall carb and take a road trip. Could not start ... The gas floods to the bottom of the carb where you can see it about 1/2 inch deep in the manifold (specifically it is at the bottom of the box the carb is bolted to). The little tank I am hooked up to (about a quart) gets sucked dry just cranking it? I do not get how all the fuel is getting sucked through to the bottom of the "box" so fast? And why isn't it getting pulled into the engine and starting? While I am less daft than before through forced learning, I remain relatively clueless on what is happening. Could the main jet gasket cause all this if it is no good? the float jet "looks" ok...the little spring gets compressed when the bowl is full and the float is topped out. Any diagrams on the path the fuel takes once in the carb? Any suggestions on the next steps would be most welcome.

Edited August 22, 2014 by CKHughes

[Don G 1947]

Be careful here,  you may be dumping a lot of gas into your cylinders and down the cylinder wall past the ring and into the oil.  Washing the oil off the rings and diluting the pan oil are not good things.  Bite the bullet and get a carb kit before you end up having to buy an engine rebuild kit. Local parts stores can get those kits in a day.

 

Before you start the engine, squirt a couple of teaspoons of oil into  the spark plug holes, turn the engine over a couple of times to distribute the oil and let it sit like that for a couple of hours.  Change the oil.

 

Sometimes the leaking you initially described is caused by excessive wear of the throttle plate shaft and or the body. Wiggle it up and down and see what you get. If there is a lot of wiggle, you may need to send it out to a rebuilder.

 

Don

[JBNeal]

if your carb has a good spray out of the jet, then the next thing to check is your spark plugs for being fouled.  When you pull the plugs to add some engine oil into the combustion chamber to lube the rings, check the plug condition to diagnose your engine performance.  If you have sprayed too much fuel into the intake manifold, you may have indeed flooded it.  Flooding is easy enough to do on the flatheads I have found, but give it a few minutes and then trying again may clear this out.  Usually when I have really flooded the engine, it takes a while to let the excess fuel boil out, then I hit the carb with starting fluid to get a cylinder to fire because the spark plugs have become fuel-fouled.  Once a cylinder or two gets fired, the engine will sputter until all of the plugs have burned off the excess carbon, and then the engine speed will smooth out.  I reckon there is an art to startup of a carbureted engine that can be lost after years of dealing with automated fuel injected systems.  Once ya know exactly what is going on inside the beast, then ya know how to control it

[greg g]

Needle and seat not closing. Float set too low or debris in valve fix that before any thing else.

[CKHughes]

Drove 60 mi. RT to a NAPA that had the carb rebuild kit (CRB 25066A - http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Result.aspx?Ntt%3dCRB%2b25066a%26Ntk%3dKeyword%26Nty%3d1%26Dn%3d0%26D%3dCRB%2b25066a%26Dk%3d1%26Dp%3d3%26N%3d0).

 

Unloaded a can of carb cleaner on it and it is quite clean now. Still FLOODING the intake manifold. Just to confirm the needle end (pointy) of the needle valve points towards the fuel supply (front of the truck) and NOT toward the carb and float bowl, correct?

 

I filled the bowl and measured 5/64" from top of carb to topped out float. seems to close the needle just fine. If anything, when the float drops down, the needle stays seated. I'll assume the flow of fuel will push it back? The only thing I did not check was the main vent tube as the instructions indicate you need a special tool. Is that true and if so, where do you get one? Could that be a culprit? Also left the step up alone as it moves up and down freely. I may have reached the limit of what I can do...  .

[Jeff Balazs]

Sounds like maybe you have a mismatched float valve and fitting. I have a couple of kits and there are two different lengths of float valves supplied for these carbs. You need to make sure that you have the correct length for the fitting that it seats into. Otherwise it won't shut off the fuel supply when the float is up.

 

Jeff

Edited August 25, 2014 by Jeff Balazs

[JBNeal]

how's that spark a-lookin'? 

[Don G 1947]

simple test for the needle and seat.  Empty the fuel bowl and hold the float up with a piece of string or whatever.  Have someone "start" the engine.  If the bowl fills up then you know you have a needle/seat problem.

 

Don

[CKHughes]

would be great to confirm this:

Just to confirm the needle end (pointy) of the needle valve points towards the fuel supply (front of the truck) and NOT toward the carb and float bowl,

correct?

[Young Ed]

would be great to confirm this:

Just to confirm the needle end (pointy) of the needle valve points towards the fuel supply (front of the truck) and NOT toward the carb and float bowl,

correct?

 

Correct the flat spot of the needle rests against the float tab

[Jeff Balazs]

Yes it does ....... and it seats into and seals against the internal port in the fitting I mentioned. You need to make certain that it shuts off the fuel supply when the top of the float is 5/32" below the top of the bowl.

Jeff