Having SERIOUS Trouble getting truck to start!!!!!

[MBF]

Don:  They weren't MoPar 6's that slipped time due to the nylon teeth breaking loose.  One was a Ford 302, and the other a Buick v-8.   Just something else I thought he could check as I have seen worn chains on a flatty.  Mike  

[Jeff Balazs]

Don:  They weren't MoPar 6's that slipped time due to the nylon teeth breaking loose.  One was a Ford 302, and the other a Buick v-8.   Just something else I thought he could check as I have seen worn chains on a flatty.  Mike  

Yes. My otherwise very solid 230 had a very sloppy chain on it. I was very glad I made myself open it up for inspection. From what I could tell my engine had very few hours on a good quality rebuild. They must have just spaced on the timing chain. Even if they never break that amount of stretch would have to have an effect.

 

There has been some really good advice here....hopefully it will help the poster get a handle on the problems he has had.

Jeff

[Don Coatney]

Don:  They weren't MoPar 6's that slipped time due to the nylon teeth breaking loose.  One was a Ford 302, and the other a Buick v-8.   Just something else I thought he could check as I have seen worn chains on a flatty.  Mike  

Thanks for the clarification.

[fortunateson]

Don and everyone else,  I really appreciate all the advice.  A lot of it I had done before but no luck.  When I first started looking into this problem I was suspecting the timing chain.  I thought that the huge backfire may have had something to do with this.  Anyway nothing good to report.  All replacements tune-parts are quality pieces and even borrowed some to 2x check to see if perhaps the new pieces weren't functional.  There was no difference.  The other thing I wanted to cure was the persistent hard starting issue that I've had from day one.  I guess I'll have to remove the front sheet metal to access everything as this truck has very closes confines.

 

 

Now if the timing chain has skipped I would presume replace it as weel as  the gears.  Correct?  If the issue is that the oil pump wasn't "indexed" properly what is the procedure to fix that issue?  Pull the pump from the side of the block and re-align by a tooth either way until something good happens?  (I have a manual that a buddy has been slow to return.)  Would this issue cause the harding strating issue or would it not start at all?  When I have the front sheet metal off I will try to do something re: the timing marks.  By the way, what size nut holds on the crank pulley?

[Plymouthy Adams]

indexing of the oil pump only will set the engine cam/pump/dist position to that of factory as a book reference and uniformity across production.........it is not a necessity but a convenience...if you know your at TDC and the rotor position in relationship to the cap and wire the firing order in proper sequence and rotation..you good to go..

[Jeff Balazs]

I brought up the timing chain to make sure you knew that this is a "possible" issue. There may be nothing wrong with it. It is a pretty big job to change in while the engine is in place.

If it was mine I would remove the valve inspection covers and check to see that the valves were all operating correctly before I went at the timing chain. You might just find the answer to what is happening without having to take the front end off.

 

Jeff

keep us posted we are pulling for you.

[Plymouthy Adams]

with this much trouble and this much information passed along it is time to start this procedure from scratch and verify what is or is not correct and following the correct procedure/order of business....slow down...throw out your prior thinking and start anew....often if things are not working and you have not a clue...prove what is right and eventually you will find what is wrong in the process..to get things to work..you need to know first how they work...if you are not 100% founded in the theory, stop, read up on the subject before proceeding..this simple step alone could save you lots of time money and headches..

Edited August 22, 2014 by Plymouthy Adams

[DJ194950]

Thought it may be time to throw in an easy check for timing gear/chain wear.

 Turn engine over with the dist. cap off but rotor on until it just moves the rotor, then turn motor over the opposite direction. the motor Should turn over just slightly only before the rotor moves in the opposite direction with it. An easy way the check wear.

If moves much more it's time to replace the gears and chain. I've seen some move and inch and more on the pulley.

 

Good luck,

 

DJ

[Young Ed]

Don't go after the timing chain yet. I don't believe we've ever had a poster confirm a flathead 6 one jumped a tooth. They do stretch but are pretty robust. Also even if your oilpump is off you can fix that by rotating the plug wires/dist and still get the engine to run the same as if the oil pump was in there right.

[DJ194950]

My suggestion for checking timing chain gears/chains will Not tell if it has skipped a tooth(s) or not! Just slack.

 

Ed I agree that even with a worn chain/gears and even compression in the 50's and up will Not prevent a flat 6 Mopar motor from running.

 

My thought posted was to stop him from taking the front cover off to check this wear as others suggested. If  there is a lot of Slop then he can decide before tearing into the engine.

 

I kind of doubt that the steel gears and chain has skipped a gear also.

 

DJ

[fortunateson]

Well I have a tried changing the wires, the static timing procedure, checking  for spark, carb is OK, new points, plugs, condensor, cap, wires are OK, spark seems to be good, may re-check compression but I believe they are 95#-115#, poured a little gas into carb with throttle open.  The only thing I didn't do before posting was the static timing procedure.  It ran before though it has always been a real bugger to start without  excessive cranking.  Do you feel my frustration?  The timing chain and indexing were only straws I was trying to grasp.  The distibutor adjuster plate that doesdn't lock into the block seems to be too far from mid-point in my opinion.

[Jeff Balazs]

I agree guys. The only caveat is that if the owner doesn't know the history of the engine......and the oil pump was not indexed correctly......then there is a pretty good chance some other assembly may also be done incorrectly. Chain may not have jumped but might not have been installed in the correct location. It just isn't safe to assume it was.

 

Jeff

[fortunateson]

I hope I win a prize when I eventually get this thing going!!!!  Four pages on getting a rather simple engine to start?  Holy crow, I would never would have believed it except it's about me.  Darn.  Thank God I'm stubborn.

[MBF]

What does an actual compression test show for each cylinder?  If you dumped gas down the carb, and truly had a spark at each plug and any kind of compression it should have barked or backfired.  That 39 Dodge would start and run on 2 cyls when the valves were stuck.  It had no power, but it ran.  I think you're overlooking something simple.  I once did a tuneup on a V-4 Evinrude that wouldn't start after I switched in new parts.  Turned out that the brand new rotor was defective, and I only found out about it when I started switching back old parts one at a time.  Keep plugging-sorry-bad pun.