Differential R&R

[HanksB3B]

In 60 years of service 30 years mine, I don't think anything other than "keep it in oil" was ever done to it. You probably know from another one of my threads that I managed to steer off topic, I've drained the differential case to do some minor repair work.

 

Someone mentioned to be sure the vent was free & clear & operational.

 

Q: How do I do this and do I have to loosen ay brake lines to do so ? (do i need a compressed air?)

 

Q: Does anyone have some good ideas for flushing out my differential ? (I'm considering filling it with  kerosene and with it in neutral turning the wheels by hand, rinse, drain and repeat till it looks clean (er).

 

Got Ideas ?

 

Thanks,

 

Hank 

[Plymouthy Adams]

is your vent the actual bolt that holds the brake T connecter...if so it is just a bolt that is hollow with anintegral dust cap......remove the bolt and simply clean it off the axle and reinstall

[Don Coatney]

This might or might not help.

 

[HanksB3B]

is your vent the actual bolt that holds the brake T connecter...if so it is just a bolt that is hollow with anintegral dust cap......remove the bolt and simply clean it off the axle and reinstall

 I'll post a picture tomorrow but that sounds like what I've seen. So just don't loosen the brake line connections.

 

Any Ideas about a fluid to clean the differential out ?

 

Thanks,

 

Hank   

[Plymouthy Adams]

I am not sure if I understand you correct...BUT if you do you wish to flush the entire rear housing on the inside..I would recommend that the axles be pulled, the hog head removed and the housing cleaned internally with kerosene or like solvent..clean the axle bearing and re-grease as per the manual on reassembly...DO take note of the adjusting shims per side on tear down..and do your end play checks as you go...as this is a rear axle..you USE the GL5  Hypoid high pressure lubricant...

[austinsailor]

After 30 years (more likely 60!)  it's probably a good thing to replace the seals anyway.  Do it all in one operation.  My guess is the seals will nearly crumble as you pull them out.

 

This could be all one afternoon's work if you had the parts on hand, but it's a good chance you'll have to have the old ones to identify the new ones.

 

Gene 

[Dodgeb4ya]

If your rear axle looks like this 1948 chrysler you waited too long to drain and refill !......

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

You do know you may be opening up a can of worms here? If it saw hard service before you got it...... and all it has seen is a top up since then more than likely things are not up to snuff inside. If you are set on keeping it as is without a overhaul then I suggest you just refill and keep your fingers crossed. If there is a problem then using a synthetic oil is not going to fix it.

 

Our philosophies may be very different when it comes to things like this. In the past you have used terms like "it's all about the paint". I understand where you are coming from but I would rather have the drive train in tip-top shape and not worry quite as much about what it looks like. To have a truck be that is able to function as I need it to in today's driving conditions is I believe far more respectful to it's true origin than building another rolling museum piece. Job - Rated to me means that these trucks were intended to be up to the task. With all that has transpired in the last 60 plus years they need a bit of re-engineering to do that job. You can put the full effort into rebuilding the stock rear axle but after spending good money you will still end up being limited by the lower than optimum final ratio for our driving conditions. A rear axle swap is the easiest way to address this. Of course the choice is yours.

 

Jeff

[Larry Leibhart]

I would take the other side of the fence.  I may not be knowledgeable enough to over my opinion but if I wanted a reengineered vehicle I would buy a newer model.  I want to experience the nuances and flavor of the pilothouse era including the lower geared rear end and the flathead 6.   If mine is ever finished I may regret my decisions later 

[HanksB3B]

Thanks everyone for responding.  

 

Jeff when I said "it's all about the paint" in no means did I mean that the paint is what makes the truck, what I meant was now that it is painted I just mean before laying or dropping a tool make sure it's not on an unprotected painted surface that's all. I definately agree about not putting big bucks into the 4.11. 

 

 

Gene the seals were replaced a couple of years ago and they do not leak. I've decided not to kerosene wash the unit because one way or another I intend to replace the original 4.11 hogs head in favor of a 3.73 or 3.54 and if I'm lucky enough to find a housing in better shape, ideally replace my axle in its entirety.  Alternately I would choose to go the Cherokee route.

 

Larry we are on the same side of the fence. My truck is not a rolling museum piece but everything is as stock as possible. There are however some very sensible mods two of which I think are best for todays highways, front disc brakes and a taller rear end ratio enabling your truck to run in the 2,500 rpm range at 65 or 70mph. 

 

Dodgeb4ya, That sludgy brown hue is sort of what came out of my differential but the leak I just (hopefully fixed) caused me to constantly be adding gear oil. 

 

Plymouthy Adams if I do locate a hogs head or a taller ratio stock rear axle from lets say a passenger car I will put the utmost effort to assure it's done correctly.

 

Thanks everyone! Time to get greasy,

 

Hank 

[Jeff Balazs]

Well there is a lot to be said for a taller ratio. Makes the truck a whole lot more usable. Maybe if I lived out in the country somewhere then I wouldn't worry about it much. But if you can't get up to say around 75 mph and hold it for a while .....you are really asking for it on our freeways. It is just the way it is. Can you drive at 50 to 55 ? sure..... but it really increases the chance of causing an accident or at least triggering road rage. 

The Cherokee swap is probably the easiest and most cost effective way to do this. Finding the parts to swap the pumpkin is another option....but if you consider parts availability etc I feel like the newer axle is a great way to go.

 

Brake mods are a more subjective thing. If you get the stock ones set up correctly I feel certain they would be at least adequate.

The mods I made to mine make it feel much more like a modern vehicle when stopping. It is actually the first truck I have had with 4 wheel discs and I love the way it feels. There is no pull or any tendency to lock up when applied hard. If I did one thing right it was this. It is as close to perfect as I could ever hope for. You don't even have to give stopping a thought.

 

Jeff

[48Dodger]

What I really like about this forum, is the fact a lot of us guys have been around here long enough to speak honestly and have a feel for "our" personal taste when it comes to the final truck. Hank has a love of the "old tech" that put our trucks on the road (I could say the same about Jim shepard). Jeff B is a guy who loves the look and feel of an icon doing what it does best. I love the artistic design and making it go fast. Tim Adams is about common sense and getting it right (can't wait to meet him someday). Don Coatney is about good thoughts based on good research...I value his opinion. ggdad is about understanding the engineering and getting it back to "factory". DodgeB4ya has forgotten more about the old school tech then I've learned and value his input (thou I don't tell him that enough I suspose, lol). I could go on about many more, but my point is....I sometimes read posts without responding or adding to the confusion. I apologize. But the fun I have reading the polite banter and straight talking we do here is the best part of my day. You are the "Post Master" Hank.....you are great at "Sharage" when it comes to what you've learned.

Thank you Hank.

 

48D        

[Desotodav]

What I really like about this forum, is the fact a lot of us guys have been around here long enough to speak honestly and have a feel for "our" personal taste when it comes to the final truck. Hank has a love of the "old tech" that put our trucks on the road ...

 

48D        

I reckon that you got it spot on there Tim. I certainly enjoy and appreciate the varied forms of feedback and advice offered here on the forum, which usually stems from from personal experience/s with these old vehicles that we all treasure. I only wish that I had of arrived here at this site sooner to share in this wealth of knowledge and insight.

[Jeff Balazs]

Tim;

Nicely put. I too look forward to the daily goings on of this forum.

 

I never actually drove my truck with the original rear axle. The axle I have in mine now has a ratio of 3.55 and if anything it still feels a bit low to be optimum for the driving conditions my truck will be used in. I think that my 230 could easily handle a ratio of 3.23 or perhaps even a bit higher. 1st gear on my 4 speed with the 3.55 final ratio is still a granny gear and won't be used very often at all. I can only imagine what a 4.10 rear would feel like in this truck.....but I am very glad I did not leave it in place. I am certain however that it would have made driving in the traffic I have to contend with extremely unpleasant.

 

I hope Hank understands that I am not being completely disrespectful.......but rather underlining a vital aspect of living and driving in the region we are both located.

Anyone who has spent any time driving the freeways in this area understands the absolute necessity of going with the flow of traffic. It is a given and you cannot expect the drivers around you to give a hoot that you are driving a vintage vehicle. And this condition does not end when you are off the freeway. Many of the surface streets are actually far more dangerous than the freeway and have similar traffic flow rates. I feel fairly certain Hank would agree with this statement.

 

So can we have our cake and eat it too? I think so ..... but to do it without any mods or updates ? I believe is a real stretch. At the very least you are hoping (or forcing) the strangers around you to tolerate or indulge your whim to cruise around in a vintage truck. And maybe most will. But my gut feel is the moment you start taking that tolerant behavior for granted you could get a very rude awakening. I know I certainly don't want to be the guy that finds out.

 

In the end what we choose to do with our trucks is up to us. As are the consequences of our decisions. Leave it as is or modify and update. I suppose this decision is determined by how and where we intend to use it and what limitations we are prepared to accept. And of course....   ....our respective budgets.

 

Jeff

[HanksB3B]

I totally agree with all the above comments and feel the same way about this Forum. I'm not really as experienced a mechanic as some and to me I just felt that bringing my truck into the working order as Detroit designed it was the first step in understanding my truck. I guess I mght as well tell you the good fortune I had recently. Charlie Akers aka "Rusty Hope" called me a couple of months ago to ask if I could rebuild a steering box for someone. I volunteered, but as things worked out, shipping across country proved to be prohibitively expensive. As payment for my efforts Charlie was going to send me his Rusty Hope Disc Brake Conversion Kit. Charlie being the kind of guy he is switched my part of the project to sourcing the parts and locating a new tube & worm which I was able to accomplish. True to his word Charlie shipped out the kit and I can't tell you how excited I was to receive it. I'm looking forward to the next phase for my truck which is making it stop before making it faster. Although my stock brakes are in top order, thinking about braking from 65mph just doesn't cut it. So the plan is to install front discs and a Cherokee disc brake rear axle. It's going to take me some time to budget but if I locate the right parts at the right price and accumulate everything gradually it'll happen.

 

Hank 

[MBF]

That's why Howard Johnson used to serve 28 different flavors of ice cream.  Folks have different ideas.  This forum is a good sounding board to throw out ideas and suggestions.  I've learned some, and helped others with some.  Hey-if a guy is into PH trucks regardless if its a show winner (none of mine are) or a rat-they gotta be all right in my book.  Mike

[Jeff Balazs]

Hank;

That is good news. I think if you take your time sourcing the parts it should be fairly economical. Of course you will have to make some new 3/16" brake lines but you have all the skills now.

 

Jeff

[Dan Babb]

If you're going to flush the rear end, maybe use something like this:

http://www.mightyautoparts.com/complete-oil-system-flush

 

There are quite a few products offer to help clean the internal working parts of the engine, so that is probably safer than using Kerosene.   I guess the only downside could be that you clean out some sludge that's preventing leaks now...but if your seals were replaced, that probably won't be an issue.

 

The rear axle swap isn't all that hard as long as you (or a friend) can weld.  It took more time for me to measure the angles I wanted and drive it over to my friends shop than it took to install the new one in the truck.