cleaning solutions

[mrwrstory]

          I will post updates on this topic as long as folks are checking the thread

Earlier on the main P-15 Forum, I asked about parts cleaning solutions and came up short.  I am restoring

some Rochester carburetors for a 3x2 setup for my Red Ram Hemi .  Although they are not typical P-15/D-24

faire, I believe the process applies.  So, after some time on Google I found a number of threads dealing with

the subject and have begun my little project to see what works for me.

I started with First Street Commercial Degreaser which I had,..., and it sounded more aggressive than Pine Sol.

After marinating for 24 hours at ambient temp. this is the result,....(on the right), not near what is needed,.....

not surprised.  The aluminum part shown is a sacrifical item in case I go too far with chemicals. 

 

The cast iron bases were treated to an additional 5 min. bath of 50/50 muratic acid and water.

The next level of intensity will be boiling the parts in the degreaser and/or ultrasonic cleaning.  I have found 

a Harbor Freight Ultrasonic cleaner that is reasonible cost and about the perfect size.  I will post an update

on that step in a few days. 

[greg g]

2 parts pinesole, 1 part water.  Soak overnight or as long as needed.  Or I have a friend who uses Clorox The Works toilet bowl cleaner for all his aluminum snowmobile bits.  He swears by it for removing oxidation and other stain on aluminum parts.  And it leaves your parts smelling fresh and bacteria free.  Both products are flushable where the chemical carb dips are not. I don't know if he sprays it on straight or cuts it with water.  Guess you could do both spray it let it sit then soak it in a diluted mix, ther rinse in warm water.   For the cheap money at walmart or your local hardware store either is worth a try.  Don't use anything like dishwasher products as they are caustic and will etch aluminum and pot metal.  

 

 

There are also products used by marinas for cleaning pontoons and other aluminum.  Zing or Zinger, and Toon bright.

Edited November 24, 2013 by greg g

[mrwrstory]

  Don't use anything like dishwasher products as they are caustic and will etch aluminum and pot metal.  

 

 

Greg,  Thank you, I was worrying about that.  Of the First Street cleaners, the one I used did not warn of damage to aluminum.

[greg g]

Bill, Years back I posted a link, I believe it was from the VW Board Samba, where a fellow made a soda blaster made from a piece of clear tubing and an air compressor blow gun.  The tubing needs to be big enough to cut a slit into to allow the blow gun to be inserted into it.  The the free end is stuck into a box of baking soda.  When you pull the trigger on the blow gun, the atomizer effect pulls up the soda and projects it onto your work piece.  Excess Soda in cracks and crevices can be rinsed away with warm waster. 

 

a repost here on Blueskies Willys board.

 

http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/showthread.php?3069-Easy-soda-blasting-at-home-(for-beginners)

[mrwrstory]

Again, thank you Greg!  I'm getting answers to questions I'm not smart enough to ask.    

[greg g]

This fellow gets a bit fancier with his media holder.   Wonder if you could use table salt also.  might be a bit more agressive for deep grime, stains, then use the soda to finish?  

 

[mrwrstory]

after soaking in the First Street Heavy Duty Cleaner Degreaser, not near clean enough

 

so I went to heating that solution, still not near clean enough

bought the Harbor Freight Ultrasonic Cleaner.  I'm thinking about returning it.

here's a comparo, better but still not there.  left to right, Heavy Duty Cleaner, hot Heavy Duty Cleaner, Ultrasonic Cleaner.

the dilemma is assuring that the chambers that you cannot get to are cleaned of the gunk that shows on the outside surfaces.

I am now dealing mostly with the white crusty corrosion that is obvious in the first frame in the above photo.  I am considering

building a soda blaster as per the video that Greg linked

Edited November 30, 2013 by mrwrstory

[oldodge41]

The soda blaster looks interesting. I wonder if you could blast a small enough stream to clean internal passages? If you could, between the mild abrasives cleaning and air flow proving no blockage..................... 

[mrwrstory]

What's challenging and a bit frustrating is I'm dealing with corrosion, carbon deposits and grease,... on cast iron,

die cast aluminum, brass and steel.   Each, as far as I can figger, requiring a different technique and/or chemical.

Some of the pieces are combinations of several materials.  Here's an example...........

>

I've boiled the **** outta all the pieces and done the ultra-sonic cleaning which got me part way.  Then fabricated 

a soda blaster from vaccum fittings and tubing.  Kinda cool but not aggressive enough to remove rust.  Finally had

to resort to chemicals.  Muratic acid on the ferrous parts did the trick but left a yellow residue which I feel may inhibit

attachment of coatings.

 

>

The pic below shows the diff. from boiled in degreaser (top) and soda blasted (bottom)...rust still in place

>

Tho the aluminum doesn't like it, I resorted to Blue Lightning Rust Remover,...note the two colors on the

choke link piece.  I've also done copious flushing with carb cleaner and much air blasting.  Lotta work

but pretty sure it's as clean as I'm going to get it.

 

 

[Grdpa's 50 Dodge]

any one try vinegar on the scale in carbs?

[Don Coatney]

While filtering through some postings from an old version of this forum (prior tothe last two upgrades) I read this information pasted below. It appears bead blasting is what George Asche uses and also pictured below is what his finished product looks like.

 

Posted By: Don Coatney <donnlisa@bellsouth.net>

Date: 10/23/02/ 09:54pst

In Response To: George Asche (Lou)

Lou;

I just got off the phone with George Asche. He says hello. He is about half done with my manifold

modifications. I am getting excited. This conversion will use two Carter B&B rebuilt carbs supplied by

George. I asked about the choke hookup and my manual choke will choke will activate the butterfly on both

carb choke plates. All linkage will be supplied and I will only have to make one of my linkage rods a little

shorter. Both manifolds (intake and exhaust) have been sand blasted so they should look like new. All

unused ports will be welded up such as the automatic choke set up for the original Desoto carb. Both carbs

are bead blasted and silicone sprayed so they will also look like new. The jetting will be matched in both

carbs and he will send the correct top flanges so I can use two original oil bath air cleaners. I will send

pictures when I get this assembly back. Don Coatney

 

[DJ194950]

From a couple of car  mag. articles on soda blasting. regular store bought bake soda will not work well for blasting as it's already ground to a flour consistancy and is too fine. After blasting with the right "grit" of soda you will end up with about the same fine stuff bought at most stores. Save for future use?, as long as it's not baking!

 

Correct stuff may be avail. at  H.F.. For sure at eastwood.com and others, maybe check with your local sandblasting co.'s to check other local sources. Articles also stated that the used soda was unfit for recycling for more blasting use.

 

Best,

 

Doug

Edited December 16, 2013 by DJ194950

[mrwrstory]

From a couple of car  mag. articles on soda blasting. regular store bought bake soda will not work well for blasting as it's already ground to a flour consistancy and is too fine. After blasting with the right "grit" of soda you will end up with about the same fine stuff bought at most stores. Save for future use?, as long as it's not baking!

Doug

Hey Doug,  I can confirm that.  The regular baking soda, shown in my pic, was weak in it's ability to knock down much of the corrosion on the aluminum.  The Ultrasonic Cleaner also was a weak performer.

However, with both and judicious scrubbing, I got my parts clean.  Now I'm smarter,....for whatever that's worth  

Don, I know bead blasting is an option but I was trying to do it all "in house" and on a budget.  Seems like a lot of the alternative techniques that you can discover online have their short comings.

[mrwrstory]

Here's the latest.  Things are starting to go together and I'm getting a sense for the color scheme I've imagined.

I found, at the local metal supply, products for doing patinas on iron and steel.  I may be on to something to replicate the black

oxide coating seen on some tools and OEM fasteners.  I'd like all the bits and pieces shown above in the basket to be black.

[greg g]

Bill, would table salt through the little blaster tool be to aggressive??

[mrwrstory]

I might try that on the next project.  Sounds like a prospect along with the coarse baking soda.  However, I'm kinda past that point now.

[mrwrstory]

Hey Fellas,....I'm still around.

I see this thread left off with comment about black coating the hardware.  I used a coating for "patina-ing" outdoor metal surfaces,....like on railings and door knockers and lamp fixtures, after cleaning again with muratic acid.  Sculpt Nouveau makes chemicals for the process to yield an infinite array of colors on many diff. outdoor metallic substrates.

I went black.  Results on larger surfaces, like choke blade are inconsistent, I believe due to the contamination on well used parts. Screw heads and pump rods are okay because of the small and convoluted nature of those parts surfaces.  Each part also still needs to be wiped down so that's a bit of a pain on dozens of screws.

On the larger parts like choke blade and bell cranks, I dusted them with my favorite black bumper and trim paint.

 

-

-

Here's where I am today,...a mind bender for me 'cause I am reassembling 3 carbs with numerous rebuild parts and two, the outboard ones, are modified for secondary duty.  I'm pretty pleased with the color scheme after I repainted the bodies a lighter hue.

[mrwrstory]

                  And so, as this OT subject is getting a bit OT  ............I'll close with a teaser.

As previously mentioned, the carburators are going on a Dodge Red Ram Hemi.  I started the engine build in about 1996 but got side tracked with other auto infatuations.   The good news is that the major parts and machining costs where incurred in the last century   It's pretty much an assembly project now.  I have not yet decided where the 325 will reside.  No sense in rushing to that decision.  I'll get it started on the bench first and then figger where it will ultimately sit,.....and don't think I don't got a lot of fantasies on where it should go .

So,.........shortly I will start another OT thread for those who may wish to follow my "Hemi Build"

[greg g]

nice!!

[BobT-47P15]

  Lots of ideas presented in this thread.

 

However, there was no mention of a couple methods........the molasses soak, and the electrolysis method (a barrel or

bucket of water and electrically charging the dipped item.)   Son in law has used the electrolysis thing and gotten

some pretty good results far as I know.  There have been pretty extensive threads on those methods on the HAMB,

and I think on this forum in the past.

 

I see you are past the cleaning point now, Bill.......but thought I would mention these two things for anyone who may

not have heard aboout them before.

 

Here is one description of the process as related to old rusty tools......................... http://www.rickswoodshopcreations.com/miscellaneous/rust_removal.htm

 

Another story about same topic from small engine guy..........http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

 

 

A couple links regarding molasses:                    http://www.colemancollectorsforum.com/post/molasses-to-remove-rust-6219306

 

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/rust-removal-using-molasses-90452/

Edited February 8, 2014 by BobT-47P15

[Eneto-55]

There is an active thread about soda blasting on Rat Rods Rule right now as well.  (I hope it is OK to mention another site...)

 

re: acids: Phosphoric acid is much slower than muriatic, but the parts do not rust before your eyes the way they will w/ muriatic.

[mrwrstory]

So, here's a coupla more that are still sorta "on topic"

The valve covers were paint over rust.  More chemicals   

Below is the result of paint stripper, muratic acid and wire brushing.  I'm eventually going for a patinaed look via staining and

then coated with a heat resistant clear.