found a nice solid '50 meadowbrook, things to look for?

[mike00]

 Hello everyone, I'm new here. I am considering buying a 1950 Dodge Meadowbrook. This will not be for a show car, or a hot rod, just for a basic everyday (maybe not winter) driver. I plan on keeping this car pretty much original, with the only mod i have in mind being a dual-master brake cylinder. Lots of people tell me im nuts for this, hopefully you guys wont. Anyway, I'm interested in this car because I think it's a beautiful body style, this particular one is solid, and he's only asking $2,000.

anyway, i know these cars were pretty durable as well as decent handling, nice suspension, and that the flat 230 was an extremely reliable engine. I since this has been sitting for awhile (plate says 2004) it will need some work.
he says it runs, but from what ive read, these old flats, if not maintained (like most cars) usually need a valve adjustment, if any valves are burnt, a guy i work with now has told me he has some pretty sophisticated valve grinding setup

i'm not new to working on cars, ive done lots of work mainly on 70's and 80's cars. this is a little different
ill check out the carb and the distributor, and the valves and try and find a bushing or bearing (whatever it is) for the water pump, and so on (things on any car). but there are usually some characteristic things to look for on certain cars, and when it comes to these (late 40's early 50's meadowbrook, coronet, wayfarer) i have no idea what to look for. i mean things that should be fixed before they get worse, things that kill drive-ability but may be an easy fix, things that i should look for and possibly consider a different vehicle (or demand a good price reduction) and so on.

where do these "Fluid-Drive" transmissions rate between being dependable and troublesome?
my understanding (although i've read some conflicting info) is that "fluid-drive" is three gears with a clutch as well as a fluid coupler so you don't need to clutch between gears if you let off the gas.
where "gyro-matic" has the same fluid coupler, and clutch, but has a high and low range, each of which automatically shift between two gears. (where high can be used if slow acceleration from a stop is ok)

i understand that the front brakes on these are dual cylinder drums, do they perform notably better than single cylinder drums?
would i be able to get the shoes re-lined at the same place a guy i used to work for in the trucking business sends his shoes off to to get re-lined?

sorry to start off hammering away with questions, im just trying to figure out a lot in a short period of time here, this car is over 100 miles away, and i want to go check it out up close soon, but before i go a want to know some things i should be looking for. thanks for taking the time to read this post, i appreciate it, and i appreciate that this site exists. There's nothing like the old cars!

Edited October 14, 2013 by mike00

[Don Coatney]

Welcome to the forum. You will have trouble finding a dual chamber master cylinder that will work with the factory brakes. However I have found that installing front disc brakes costs less than a complete stock brake job, is easier to install, and easy to find a dual chamber master cylinder for this setup.

 

Fluid drive is not a transmission but simply a fluid coupling. Many transmissions were used behind this fluid coupling so you need to identify what transmission your car has.

 

Not sure where you got your information on valve adjustment. Once the valves are adjusted you can get many miles before another valve adjustment is required. I have not touched my valves in over 40.000 miles. When adjusting valves it is better to favor on the loose side. If adjusted too tight the valves will burn.

 

First thing you should do if you buy this car is locate ans purchase a good Dodge service manual or a MoTors manual that coveres the year of your car.

 

Where are you located? There may be a forum member in your area who can offer assistance.

[GlennCraven]

Welcome, Mike, and good luck. LOTS of good advice here. You've come to the right place. (For the same reason I did.)

[mike00]

great to have already got two replies, thank you.

I dont really know the details/feasability of replacing the master with a dual, if it's just a mount and different levers, i could get it done, if it's not practical, i'll just replace all the lines and make sure i do i really nice job routing them.

I know the fluid coupler was used on a lot of vechicles, but i was under the impression that the "Fluid-Drive" badge on the fender means fluid coupler with three gears, where the opther option was "Gyro-Matic" (2 manually selectable, 2 band ranges)

and i was already looking at service manuals, just trying to decide between a book or cd-rom, the book is cool to have, the cd-rom should be text searchable, but the cd-roms seem to be really steep, i think at 25-30 bucks, id just go for the book.

 

so what would be some of the first things you would check for on a car like this, (running but not really driven, basically sitting for almost ten years?)

and how do these front brakes perform (dual cylinder) as opposed to single cylinder front drums?

[Dave72dt]

If you can do both, get them.  Then print out the info you need from the CD and takes those to the shop/garage and get the finger tracks on those rather than in the manual.  the manual makes for easy reading but printable pages keeps the manual readable.

[P15-D24]

Welcome to the site!

 

Good starting point: FAQ

[greg g]

The brake pedal on these cars mounts into a casting of the master cylinder.  As such a lot of folks have addressed the change to a dual reservoir cylinder by gutting the stock MC, mounting a new one on the frame behind the original, extending the operating rod through the bottom of the old one to the new one.  Of course the way the rod is extended will have a lot to do with how effective the new system will be.  The brakes on these cars are VERY SENSITIVE to proper adjustment.  The closer the adjustment is to factory settings, the better the brakes perform.  But they will never provide the stopping power of modern disc brakes.  

 

The fluid drive units are basically bulletproof.  Usually the only thing that manifests is a loss of fluid due to a bad seal.  The 3 speed standard transmission is the definition of dependability.  Other than worn bushings, misadjusted linkage, are deliberate abuse, I do not believe any one has ever reported a problem other than seal leaks.  there have probably been less than a dozen threads regarding the internals of the stock three speed gearbox.  The Gyromatic is also internally reliable.  most problems relate to the points in the governor, electrical connections, bad solenoid, or improper idle speed.  Welcome to the forum.

[Don Coatney]

nevermind, duplicate posting.

[meadowbrook]

Welcome!

 

I happen to have a 1950 Meadowbrook I obtained for $1. It is very solid, Maybe you can send pics of yours.

 

I'll share my experience. I replaced all my brake pipes and hoses as well as my wheel cylinders (due to an unsuccessful attempt to rebuild my old ones). I also replaced my fuel lines as they looked a bit crunchy. My engine is original and what I did was to change the oil, then pull the plugs and add oil to the cylinders, crank to get oil pressure and the replace the plugs and fire it. I did rebuild the carb and replaced the tank because mine had sat for 12 years.

On the brakes, I found a company that made brackets that allowed the use of a 1967 Ford dual circuit master cylinder. Expensive but neat setup. Despite the vaunted dual front wheel cylinders, my brakes, while adequate, are not stellar. My 1965 VW, with 4 drums and standard wheel cylinder setup stops way better, but it is lighter...

 

It does handle well for such an old design. I think all Dodge cars of the era had fluid drive which meant a fluid coupling in place of a flywheel, so this allowed the driver to not press the clutch when stopping and prevents stalling if one is not too good with using a clutch but you certainly must use the clutch to shift.

 

I can sent pics of my brake setup if needed. I also found that many of the engine parts are readily available through NAPA, like tune up parts, carb rebuild kits, water pumps, etc.

 

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

[_shel_ny]

Good chance the 1950 Meadowbrook ( base trim level four-door sedan) will have the standard 3 speed.  1950 Coronet (top trim level with all Meadowbrook features plus chrome trim rings on the wheels) would more likely have the Gyromatic. Not sure what the Sierra would have come with.

 

Fluid-Drive became standard in 1949

[Phil Martin]

You can determine which trans you have by trying to pull shifter forward as to put in first on a three speed. Gyromatic wont do it. My 50 coronet had a gyromatic sign on fender. Where are you located in southern ill?

[steveplym]

Welcome to the forum, nice to see another fellow Southern Illinoisan on here. 

[mike00]

thank you all for your comments, advice, opinions, and general interest.

sounds like a dual-master upgrade would be a pretty big and/or expensive job.

good to know the fluid-drive's (three speed manual, fluid-coupled) are strong trannys.

 

anything in peticular i should look for in this vechicle? when i check it out real good? when i test drive it?

please let me know anything that comes to mind (even if minor)

 

and I'm currently living in Carterville, Illinois

[meadowbrook]

Just wanted to suggest this setup to adapt a dual master cylinder to the Meadowbrook. I use this system and it is completely bolt on.

Got it from 860-872-7046 (ecihotrodbrakes.com).  Price is reasonable and allows the use of a readily available '67 Mustang MC. I just split the front and rear brake lines.

I work for I learned of this thru my boss at Chrysler (he is customizing a '46 Plymouth Convertible), he suggested this design and they made it.

 

 

  Chrysler Master Cylinder Assemblies  

 

 

    Chrysler Products Dual Master Cylinder Adapters

 

 

These dual master cylinder conversion brackets use the stock brake (and clutch) pedal and are a direct bolt in to the factory master cylinder bracket. They will accept the EC-445 and EC-446 master cylinders and come complete with a new master cylinder and attaching hardware.

Will fit most Chrysler and Desoto applications-call for info.

                    EC-441

37-41 Dodge and Plymouth
EC-441..............................................................................$ 250.00*

46-48 Dodge and Plymouth
EC-442..............................................................................$ 275.00*

49-54 Dodge and Plymouth
EC-444..............................................................................$ 275.00*
 

[Don Coatney]

Just wanted to suggest this setup to adapt a dual master cylinder to the Meadowbrook. I use this system and it is completely bolt on.

Got it from 860-872-7046 (ecihotrodbrakes.com).  Price is reasonable and allows the use of a readily available '67 Mustang MC. I just split the front and rear brake lines.

I work for I learned of this thru my boss at Chrysler (he is customizing a '46 Plymouth Convertible), he suggested this design and they made it.

 

 

  Chrysler Master Cylinder Assemblies  

 

 

    Chrysler Products Dual Master Cylinder Adapters

 

 

These dual master cylinder conversion brackets use the stock brake (and clutch) pedal and are a direct bolt in to the factory master cylinder bracket. They will accept the EC-445 and EC-446 master cylinders and come complete with a new master cylinder and attaching hardware.

Will fit most Chrysler and Desoto applications-call for info.

                    EC-441

37-41 Dodge and Plymouth

EC-441..............................................................................$ 250.00*

46-48 Dodge and Plymouth

EC-442..............................................................................$ 275.00*

49-54 Dodge and Plymouth

EC-444..............................................................................$ 275.00*

 

Couple of questions about this ECI dual chamber bolt on conversion? Have you converted to front disc brakes? Did this conversion bracket have upper pedal stops or do they recommend using the floor board as the upper pedal stop? How much side to side pedal slop is there? Once installed is the distance between the pedals the same as original? 

[martybose]

If you do a forum search you will find a fairly involved set of posting that include both Don and myself on modifications necessary to make this bracket really work.  ECI didn't seem interested in our feedback, but maybe they've incorporated some of our requests in the ensuing years.

 

Marty

[meadowbrook]

Dan, this setup did not affect my pedals in any way, I will add a picture of how it looks, as it will be easier than explaining. And no, i did not change any other part of my braking system other than to make sure the proper reservoir goes to the front and rear brakes. Of course the only annoyance is that it pushes the master cylinder further back, so you no longer can use that neat little access plate to check or add fluid, you have to be under the car. Which to me is ok as I own a hoist.

[Don Coatney]

Dan, this setup did not affect my pedals in any way, I will add a picture of how it looks, as it will be easier than explaining. And no, i did not change any other part of my braking system other than to make sure the proper reservoir goes to the front and rear brakes. Of course the only annoyance is that it pushes the master cylinder further back, so you no longer can use that neat little access plate to check or add fluid, you have to be under the car. Which to me is ok as I own a hoist.

Read this entire thread and tell me if the issues I had have been corrected by ECI or if you elected to go with what they supplied and were not concerned with the pedal side to side slop and the lack of pedal stops on the upstroke.

 

http://p15-d24.com/topic/20422-krap/?hl=krap

[Don Coatney]

I made a larger hole and made a new removable floor panel to gain access to the relocated Master Cylinder.

 

[james curl]

Don, I believe that you will find that the 50 Meadowbrook had the clutch pedal on the outside of the frame.  It is different than the P-15 installation even though they both use similar master cylinders.  Maybe meadowbrook can provide a picture of his clutch pedal setup and the brake pedal and master cylinder installed.  If you will check the clutch pedal overcenter spring setup in your manual you will have two pictures, one for all P-15 models and one for P-17.18, 19 and 20 which shows the clutch pedal on the outside of the frame on it's on pivot bracket.

Edited October 16, 2013 by james curl

[Don Coatney]

Don, I believe that you will find that the 50 Meadowbrook had the clutch pedal on the outside of the frame.  It is different than the P-15 installation even though they both use similar master cylinders.  Maybe meadowbrook can provide a picture of his clutch pedal setup and the brake pedal and master cylinder installed.  If you will check the clutch pedal overcenter spring setup in your manual you will have two pictures, one for all P-15 models and one for P-17.18, 19 and 20 which shows the clutch pedal on the outside of the frame on it's on pivot bracket.

Thanks James, I was not aware of that.

[mike00]

it's good to know that the dual master conversion is feasable.

what should i look for when i check this car out?

what would you be looking for/at when inspecting a car like this that you're considering buying?

 

(unless you're like Mr.Meadowbrook who got his for a dollar, in which case, i bet all he was looking for was the title!)

seriously though, any telling signs of problems on weakpoints of this model?

 

i do like this information http://oldcarbrochures.org/NA/Dodge/1950-Dodge/1950-Dodge-Coronet-and-Meadowbrook

Edited October 17, 2013 by mike00

[Dave72dt]

As some others can attest, check the frame, floor panels and rockers, inner and outer.  Grab a magnet and check  for filler in painted areas that are likely rust repair areas.

[GlennCraven]

I'll second the recommendation on checking the frame, even if the rest of the car doesn't look so bad.

[mike00]

any spots i should pay extra close attention to? (spots that rust more, or are prone to being weakened really bad by rust)

 

i know theres going to be some rust on it, am i just looking to make sure it's doesn't look like a sheeding alligator under there?