stan's52 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 A friend of mine has a 36 woodie. It has been stripped of all most everything, and is in pieces. Most metal parts appear to be there. All the wood needs to be replaced. Has anyone ever built a wood body? Looks like a real challenge. I don't need anothe project, but these things don't come around often. I would like to make him a offer. Any thoughts. Stan Quote
fatFreddie Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Unless you are a master shipwright...master body man...master automotive mechanic....own your own chrome shop and upholstery shop...RUN AWAY... Lets look at reality...a top notch Westchester Plymouth is worth 85K...Now in your case...Wood reconstruction alone is the biggie...provided there is enough left of the originals for a pattern look at a cost of 35-50K....body work 12K...Chrome 8K...interior 3K...mechanical 3K...missing parts...2K I would not go over a 1K offer...and only if it has the sidemount spare fenders... Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 that would be a real challenge..are the originals wood piece stored/available and are they suitable as templates? never messed with the wooden cars but I am not so sure a kit could be located..but I could be wrong..either way, it would be an undertaking for sure..this has the makings of a great project or one huge disappointment..study this hard is my only recommendation.. Quote
Bob Riding Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 It depends on how much you are willing to do yourself.I am attempting to restore a '40 plymouth and i must recreate the wood from the existing wood. I gotten estimates of $18- $25k to do all the woodwork. I am planning to do as much as I can myself. It's basically a big cabinet fastened to to the metal bits. No steam bending , but some finger joints, which I'm farming out to a cabinetmaker. '36 Plymouth woodies are extremely rare ( unlike the P10 woodies which are only very rare! - I don't think there are more than 25 left, out of 3,206) In 1936 they only made 309, so chances are they will be very limited after market woodie only parts available. It can be done - not sure on a price, but stripped later model Plymouth woodies have gone from $3-$15k, depending.At the height of the market, this ' 41 went for $101 k Quote
fatFreddie Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 It's basically a big cabinet fastened to to the metal bits. No steam bending That is not true...anywhere there is a bend in the wood it is STEAM BENT... Lets look at...can you take a solid piece of wood and cut a bend in it ...yes you can, but the grain is wrong. That is fine for a cabinet that hangs on a walll and never moves, but a car moves and shakes and hit bumps... Now for the wood. You just cannot go to Home Depot and buy it...no.. you need to be very selective. Nice tight, straight grain...air dried...no KILN dried. White Ash...harder to find as that Chinese emerald borer is destroying it all..Maple, Red Gum, Oak...not cheap stuff. If you need to make a wood body talk to a boat builder/restored. My favorite woods are the Lyman...Garwood and the Chris Crafts are nice too... Could a guy in his garage with a ShopSmith Mark 5 and a pile of wood build a 1936 PLymuth Westchester body...sure anything can be done...would it be worth 100K +...not a chance as people paying that price requires an inspection and any car appraiser worth their salt would see the difference form a ShopSmith Mark 5 body and a properly made body... Quote
Jim Yergin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 That is not true...anywhere there is a bend in the wood it is STEAM BENT... Your "not true" statement is not true about my '41 Plymouth wagon or Bob Riding's '40 Plymouth wagon. There is not one steam bent piece on the car. The curved sections are made up of multiple pieces joined with finger joints. Jim Yergin Quote
fatFreddie Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Looks like you caught me on that one Jim...USCHO did not use STEAM...they used a hot water alkali solution to soak the wood in then they place them into a form or jig to bend in the shape. When I was restoring my 48 Town & Country Sedan, I was lucky to find the original jigs for the rear trunk pieces....got them from an original employee at USCHO in Buffallo. I have since sold the jigs some 30 years ago...last I heard White Post has them... The curved sections are made up of multiple pieces joined with finger joints. YES that is true....but that piece started as a straight piece of wood. The FINGER JOINTS are used to control the spring and warp in the piece while it undergos bending. Quote
greg g Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 It would seem that the Dodge and Plymouth bodies were produced in Tell City Indiana and not in the Buffalo facility. Known as the Westchester and certainly a rare car as in 36 only 306 were built and not kown how many are left. The 36 seems to have fewer curved pieces than the newer models. The company started out making hames, then switched to truck bodies. Here is a restored 37 (whihc seems to have the same wooden body) that was at the Show in Rhinebeck this spring. I believe it belongs to Earl Button, of Woodstock, NY. Earl is a board memeber of the Plymouth Owners club. Perhaps you could contact him about his experience with his car. Quote
Jim Yergin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Looks like you caught me on that one Jim...USCHO did not use STEAM...they used a hot water alkali solution to soak the wood in then they place them into a form or jig to bend in the shape.When I was restoring my 48 Town & Country Sedan, I was lucky to find the original jigs for the rear trunk pieces....got them from an original employee at USCHO in Buffallo. I have since sold the jigs some 30 years ago...last I heard White Post has them... The curved sections are made up of multiple pieces joined with finger joints. YES that is true....but that piece started as a straight piece of wood. The FINGER JOINTS are used to control the spring and warp in the piece while it undergos bending. I agree that the wood was bent to shape on the T&C but that was not the case with the Plymouth wagons. No bending. Jim Yergin Quote
fatFreddie Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 So.Jim..if there is no bending and just a bunch of cut and glued pieces then why then would Chrysler just get a Shopsmith MARK 5 and make the bodies themselves instead of contracting them out to a company that has experience in bending wood....horse collars? Quote
Jim Yergin Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 So.Jim..if there is no bending and just a bunch of cut and glued pieces then why then would Chrysler just get a Shopsmith MARK 5 and make the bodies themselves instead of contracting them out to a company that has experience in bending wood....horse collars? I would guess that when you only make 5,000 wagons in a year, it does not make sense to set up a "Shopsmith" and train your workers to produce wooden bodies but then you would have to ask the management of Chrysler about that. I only know that after assembling each and every piece of the wooden body on my '41 Plymouth wagon, I can catergorically state that there are no "bent" pieces in my car. If you can point to one specific part in the body of my car that is "bent" either chemically, by steam or any other way, I will concede the point. I am confident that you cannot. Jim Yergin Quote
Plymouthy Adams Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 don't forget that steel bodies were made by contract for Chrysler by Briggs unitl Chrysler bought the facility years later..most times it is easier to farm out a handful of low production bodies than to try and start up a complete assembly line to include jigs, tools and experienced manpower..am sure the few wood bodies made would not have been profitable by taking this on at corporate level..anyway..thats my take..of course like many folks here I also understand that the more you do in your own shop the more you can spread your money about on the project for upgrades like chrome as this is something that government regulations put out of your reach for a DIY Quote
greg g Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM! From the Coachbuilt website. Seems to be a bit of contradictory information especially regarding Chrysler branded vehicles. USHCO Mfg. Co.; US Body & Forging USHCO Mfg. Co. Buffalo, New York & Detroit, Michigan 1917-1950 - US Body & Forging, 1933-1937 Tell City, Indiana 1937-1950 Frankfort, Indiana Associated Builders Consolidated Hame Company, 1883-1902; Andover, New Hampshire; United Hame Co. 1880s-1902; U.S. Hame Co. 1902-1917, Buffalo, New York; US Body & Forging is best known for the thousands of Dodge and Plymouth station wagons built by the firm in their Frankfort and Tell City, Indiana factories through 1950. In 1941, the Chrysler Division introduced their own station wagon, the legendary Town & Country. However, USCHo/USB&F would not build the vehicle nor supply the millwork used in its construction. Following the war, USHCo/USB&F resumed production on Plymouth’s station wagons which were built through 1949. The arrival of Plymouth’s all-steel 1950 station wagon ended the firm’s long association with Chrysler Corp. and the firm withdrew from business during 1950. Chrysler’s president, David A. Wallace was not attracted to the generic look of the USHCo/USB&F wagons and wanted to create a more luxurious and streamlined vehicle more befitting the prestigious Chrysler brand. The Town & Country name had previously been used on an aerodynamic station wagon proposal submitted to Chrysler in 1939 by Boyertown Body’s Paul Hafer. Chrysler elected to build the body in-house, but liked the name and appropriated it for the new Chrysler wagons. Clearly influenced by Hafer’s submission, Chrysler’s designers came up with a striking fastback (aka barrelback) with a tapered steel roof and a unique clam-shell tailgate, paneled in Honduras mahogany surrounded by a frame of white ash. A small Chrysler-controlled sawmill located in Helena, Arkansas called Pekin Wood Products - not Boyertown or USHCo/USB&F - was selected to provide the vehicle’s wooden components which were mated to a Chrysler Windsor chassis at Chrysler’s Jefferson Ave. plant in Detroit. Pekin Wood Products was a West Helena, Arkansas lumber mill and factory dating from the 1920s that furnished Chrysler Corp. with wood boxes, crates and milled components. A controlling interest in the firm was purchase by Chrysler in the late 30s and along with USHCo/USB&F, the firm supplied wooden components for Plymouth’s 1939 and 1940 wagons. While USHCo/USB&F’s bodies were shipped completely assembled, Pekin supplied knocked down wagon bodies that were crated and shipped by rail to Plymouth’s Lynch Rd assembly plant in Detroit for final assembly. Quote
james curl Posted June 11, 2012 Report Posted June 11, 2012 I had an acquaintance who worked for IBM whose father built the bodies in Helena Arkansas, the son would go home to see his folks and bring back a load of green cut oak, hickory, walnut and air dry it in his wood shop. He retired from IBM after 30 years and was going to make fine furniture in his retirement years, developed cancer and died within two years after retiring. He always talked about his father building the wooden bodies for Chrysler in their home town in Arkansas and I had never heard that Chrysler had a plant in Arkansas, but did not doubt his word, so now I know the rest of the story. Quote
fatFreddie Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 Things that make you go HMMMMMMMM! From the Coachbuilt website. Seems to be a bit of contradictory information especially regarding Chrysler branded vehicles.[/i][/color] Yep read that too...but I will let all the good little sluthes out there in P-15 land do a little road work...now I am sure that most of you have a copy of the P-15 parts manual, now boys and girls open it up to the BODY section....and see were Chrysler tells you were to order the wood parts ....Now you will need to have an April of 1947, D-11758, or newer parts book, D-12198, to play along on this slueth...but it is worth it Now for an added bonus...once you figured out the slueth you can use Google earth to view the site..... Quote
Dodgeb4ya Posted June 12, 2012 Report Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) There are no steam or otherwise bent pieces of laminated ash wood in the 1946-50 Chrysler Town and Country cars. All the wood started out as big 3-4' square blocks of 6-8" thick laminated ash. These giant laminated thick blocks of wood sections were what all the T&C smaller sections of wood came from. These smaller sections were then joined together with the 3/8" X 1-1/4" X1/8" finger joints to build a strong and warp free beautiful wood body.The Pekin Wood Plant in Arkansas supplied the wood body parts as mentioned above. Bob Edited June 12, 2012 by Dodgeb4ya Quote
Bob Riding Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 A friend of mine has a 36 woodie. It has been stripped of all most everything, and is in pieces. Most metal parts appear to be there. All the wood needs to be replaced. Has anyone ever built a wood body? Looks like a real challenge. I don't need anothe project, but these things don't come around often. I would like to make him a offer. Any thoughts. Stan So Stan, Have you decided what to do? If you pass, I 'd be interested in seeing pics, etc. Quote
Bob Riding Posted June 13, 2012 Report Posted June 13, 2012 A friend of mine has a 36 woodie. It has been stripped of all most everything, and is in pieces. Most metal parts appear to be there. All the wood needs to be replaced. Has anyone ever built a wood body? Looks like a real challenge. I don't need anothe project, but these things don't come around often. I would like to make him a offer. Any thoughts. Stan So Stan, Have you decided what to do? If you pass, I 'd be interested in seeing pics, etc. Quote
Jim Benjaminson Posted June 18, 2012 Report Posted June 18, 2012 I think there are only 3 remaining 1936 Plymouth woodies extant. Possible this car is one of them??? Quote
Robert Smith Posted July 18, 2012 Report Posted July 18, 2012 Here's a link to a photo of a restored '36 Dodge woody station wagon. Hope this helps some. http://www.flickr.com/photos/46535856@N08/5224453738/ If one can purchase a heap for a low price, and if they're ambitious enough to bring one back to life, go for it! It would be amazing to see one emerge onto the road and boost the surviving number of such a rare model Plymouth. Any chance we could see a photo of the prospective relic? =R Quote
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