Brake drum slides on...will not turn

[54Illinois]

I just put new wheel cylinders on the front drivers side of my 54 Plymouth. The shoes, and drum were not replaced or turned. I got everything back together and the drum will not turn. It went on snug, not tight (drum).

I used the pins from the cylinder kit, and the arrows are pointed toward the cylinders as well. The bottom cylinder pin has some play, as if the piston is pushed in and stuck, and I cannot push the shoe any further into the cylinder. There is no brake fluid in the system yet.

I hate to think of turning the drum, that would mean new bearings and such.

[Don Coatney]

I hate to think of turning the drum, that would mean new bearings and such.

Can you explain what turning the drum has to do with "new bearings and such"?

[BobT-47P15]

Did you check the pins that go into the end of the wheel cyl to make

sure they are exactly like the old ones?

I tried to use new pins that came with new cylinders.....they were

made a bit differently, held the brake shoes farther apart, and you

could not get the drum on completely.

One set of pins was round on the end, the others more pointed and

tapered.

[54Illinois]

Can you explain what turning the drum has to do with "new bearings and such"?

Turning the drums would create metal shavings. The bearings would have to be pulled, and they appear to be pressed on.

I will check the pins.

Edited April 23, 2012 by 54Illinois

[Don Coatney]

Turning the drums would create metal shavings. The bearings would have to be pulled, and they appear to be pressed on.

I will check the pins.

Do you own a service manual and if so have you read it? Bearings are not pressed on and they must be removed to turn the drums on the fronts. Rear drums come off the axle without removing the bearings.

[54Illinois]

I own a Motors, Chiltons and Plymouth manual. None talk about rebuilds, only adjustments.

I am thinking of the wheel seals, not the bearings. Are they pressed in?

Maybe I should ad that I have spent an hour or so using the search forum, and have looked in the books. I am just not running into a problem, then asking for an answer.

Edited April 23, 2012 by 54Illinois

[greg g]

If you changed the positions of the anchor bolts, the arrows, you changed the brake adjustment. If you changed the adjustment you changed the position of the shoes in relation to the drums from where they were when you pulled them. If you can rememer wher they were before you moved them, putting them back to that position may take care of your problem.

Have you tried rotating the drums with any mechanical assistance rather than by had pressure. Put a couple lug bolts in the drum and you a leaver like the stock lug wrench to try to rotate the drum. Did you over tighten the hub nut???

[Jerry Roberts]

You shouldn't have to turn your drums and you shouldn't have to pull your seals . And the seals are a snug fit by the way , they are hammered in place . The answer to your problem is either brake shoe adjustment or the wrong pins .

[Plymouthy Adams]

as Bob said, check the pins..there is a problem out there in parts land with two different pins..have seen this before myslef..you may have to alter the pin's slot to match the depth of the older ones as the piston cups are the big problem in interchange...look closer at this and you will see what needs be done..to turn your drum would be waste of material you may need in the future...

[oldmopar]

Not about the tight drum problem seals should not cause it. However if you were speaking about the drum inner seal you should replace it they are cheap and if it leaks it will ruin the new linings. Also check the wheel bearing inner and outer clean & repack or replace if necessary. Once you have everything apart it makes sense and saves headaches down the road to replace all the old parts

[Dodgeb4ya]

A couple of pics of the different wheel cylinder pistons and push rods. Rods are not matched to the pistons.

[54Illinois]

Well the pins are exactly the same. I will go over it again tomorrow.

[Dodgeb4ya]

Something is different in dimension causing your old shoes to be pushed out against the drums. The piston rod depth machined in the new Wheel cylinder piston is not as deep, the push rod length is longer, the push rod radius is bigger so the rod doesn't seat fully or deep enough into the pistons, or the anchor bolts are not pulling the wheel cylinders in enough.

Or they are offshore cheap improperly made Chinese wheel cylinders that are not made to the original MoPar specifications as were the originals!

Bob

[flatheadtim]

I know this is stupid but---There are "2"adjustments on all the shoes and are you in neutral?

[Don Coatney]

I know this is stupid but---There are "2"adjustments on all the shoes and are you in neutral?

Starting point is not neutral (as in middle point) it is in the fully collapsed position.

[54Illinois]

upper chinese, lower USA.

Neutral.

[oldmopar]

Do the pistons move in the wheel cylinder I had one new (raybestos) that had the piston frozen in the cylinder.

[54Illinois]

Do the pistons move in the wheel cylinder I had one new (raybestos) that had the piston frozen in the cylinder.

I think i moved them and, slow and tight.

[Plymouthy Adams]

without the tool or at minimum some device to check the shoes to ensure they are centered about the axle stub you are only guessing at best...sure you may soon get it to go on, turn etc but your wear pattern will suffer if not centered. The fact you got your drum back on says more than not the pins and such are correct..could be you just either sitting high or low in your initial adjustments...it is going to be ahit and miss thing untill you establish proper shoe orientation

[Dodgeb4ya]

If you remember where the anchor pin arrows were pointing before you started replacement of the new wheel cylinders and set them the same and now the drums don't go on easily- back to the something is different about the new wheel cylinder or push rods.

I've been there- done that. Generally an anchor adjustment will fix the dragging problem with short push rods. Might change the shoe contact from what it was. New wheel cylinder pistons are made sometimes with the bored push rod recess not deep enough too. Weak brake springs will also not pull the pistons and shoes back too.

If the shoes were new I always arc them, taking about.010-.015" off and prevents these issues and shoes fit the drums imediately with arrows at factory settings. I realize yours are the old shoes not needing replacement.

You will figure it out:)

Bob

[54Illinois]

If you changed the positions of the anchor bolts, the arrows, you changed the brake adjustment. If you changed the adjustment you changed the position of the shoes in relation to the drums from where they were when you pulled them.

I used the adjustment cams. Pulled the shoes in, put the drum on, then backed the shoes out until the drum rotated like it did before.

The other wheel cylinder came in, so now I can finish the passenger front side. Then its off to the rear brakes!

Thanks for the help!

[greg g]

Now you will need to do an adjustment process to get a proper pedal, and brake operation.

[flatheadtim]

Starting point is not neutral (as in middle point) it is in the fully collapsed position.

No I thought he was on rear shoes with nuetral being the transmission, my bad...but it sounds like he may not have known the "two" adjustments.

Edited April 25, 2012 by flatheadtim

[54Illinois]

No I thought he was on rear shoes with nuetral being the transmission, my bad...but it sounds like he may not have known the "two" adjustments.

Well the rear shoes are next!

I figure bleed the system, drive around the lot, make the adjustments.