Advice on steering & front brake adjustments

[deathbound]

Thought I would try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

First, with the front end on jack stands, I can move the wheels right to left without the steering wheel moving. I noticed about 7/16"-1/2" of fore/aft movement of the pitman arm with no reaction to the steering wheel. Once in a while while driving in 1st gear about 10 mph, if I hit a small bump or pothole, the front end wobbles violently, so I assume what I found is the problem. First question:in lamens terms, how do I adjust this or does something need replacing? (pic attch'd)

Second, I had forgot to loosen the lugnuts before I lifted the frontend, so I had my wife step on the brake. Right side loosened fine, but the left side started to roll-even with the foot brake depressed. This explains why it pulled to the right when braking. Second question:in lamens terms, what adjustment is necessary & how, "minor" or "major" brake adjustment (terms from the service manual)?

Still learning about this car, so I appreciate any & all advice.

(OT question....how do you post large pics with captions above or below? I don't have a photo hosting service? Is there any way to upload from my laptop to do this? Thanks again.)

[TodFitch]

Sounds like all the ball joints in your front end should be closely examined and if any slop found, replaced. These are not repairable items but they are still available so replacing is not a problem.

I don't like the look of that hose clamp on your drag link... If the housing/body is worn it should be replaced, if it is only the cups, springs and ball inside they can be replaced.

I'd start with the minor adjustment on the brakes. Quick and easy to do with nothing much more than a jack and a crescent wrench. If the result is not satisfactory then you can get into the major adjustment.

[james curl]

If you look at the ends of the lug bolts you will find a R or a L stamped into the end of the lug bolt. L stands for left hand threads thus you would turn them clockwise to loosen them. This is true for all early Chrysler products.

[deathbound]

Sounds like all the ball joints in your front end should be closely examined and if any slop found, replaced. These are not repairable items but they are still available so replacing is not a problem.

I don't like the look of that hose clamp on your drag link... If the housing/body is worn it should be replaced, if it is only the cups, springs and ball inside they can be replaced.

I'd start with the minor adjustment on the brakes. Quick and easy to do with nothing much more than a jack and a crescent wrench. If the result is not satisfactory then you can get into the major adjustment.

I didn't notice any play in the ball joints. ALL the movement was at the pivot of the pitman arm/steering shaft. The pitman arm is secure to the steering shaft-seems like the play is in the steering shaft. There was no unusual movement at the pitman arm/drag link connection. I will try the brake adjustment you suggested & post results when done. Thanks.

If you look at the ends of the lug bolts you will find a R or a L stamped into the end of the lug bolt. L stands for left hand threads thus you would turn them clockwise to loosen them. This is true for all early Chrysler products.

Fortunately, I was aware of this. Thanks.

[greg g]

also check the steering box to frame connections, Loose bolts or deteriorting isloation pads (if so equiped) can cause the same sort of condition.

[Andydodge]

Mopars didn't have ball joints till 1957..........lol.......38's used bushes at each end of the front springs, king pins and tie rod ends, also check the shock absorber rubbers........all which can be inspected and replaced, also check the steering box for wear/adjustments and not sure whether its mounting was solid to the chassis or rubber bushed, either way check there.........try a minor brake adjustment first..........basically seems like you and the cars front end are gunna get real close & personal soon..........lol...........regards from Oz......andyd

[deathbound]

also check the steering box to frame connections, Loose bolts or deteriorting isloation pads (if so equiped) can cause the same sort of condition.

Steering box to frame....bolts tight, no isolation pads used on this year.

Mopars didn't have ball joints till 1957..........lol.......38's used bushes at each end of the front springs, king pins and tie rod ends, also check the shock absorber rubbers........all which can be inspected and replaced, also check the steering box for wear/adjustments and not sure whether its mounting was solid to the chassis or rubber bushed, either way check there.........try a minor brake adjustment first..........basically seems like you and the cars front end are gunna get real close & personal soon..........lol...........regards from Oz......andyd

Ball joints....got caught up in the terminology responding to a previous post-oh well. Anyway, maybe I'm explaining it wrong. With the front end off the ground, wheels off, facing drivers side drum....if I grab it @the 9 o'clock & 3 o'clock positions & move it side to side, I notice about 1/2" fore/aft freeplay or movement in the steering gear shaft-the shaft connecting the steering box to the pitman arm. The steering wheel does not move, indicating to me, that there needs to be some sort of adjustment or part(s) replaced??? Can I take out the freeplay with the adjustment screw on the steering box housing? The reason I ask first, is I don't want to cause another problem.

I did do a minor brake adjustment, but I haven't dropped the car on the ground yet to test drive. I want to take care of the steering issue first.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Edited November 20, 2011 by deathbound

[TodFitch]

Mopars didn't have ball joints till 1957..........lol.......38's used bushes at each end of the front springs, king pins and tie rod ends, also check the shock absorber rubbers........all which can be inspected and replaced, also check the steering box for wear/adjustments and not sure whether its mounting was solid to the chassis or rubber bushed, either way check there.........try a minor brake adjustment first..........basically seems like you and the cars front end are gunna get real close & personal soon..........lol...........regards from Oz......andyd

My bad on terminology: The tie rod ends and drag link ends are actually a type of ball joint and that is what I was attempting to suggest might need replacing.

[Rusty O'Toole]

To adjust the steering box follow the directions in the factory manual. Do not get ideas of your own. It is possible to do a quick adjustment of the box and remove a lot of play but the box will wear out in a month or 2.

O ya don't forget to fill it with lube.

[deathbound]

I adjusted the steering, seems to have cured the wobble-even though there is still slop in the steering gear shaft. Also did a brake minor adjustment & the pulling to the right is a lot less, though still slightly there & weak pedal also. I decided to finally convert to front disc (bought the kit from Charlie earlier this year). While I'm at it, I will be replacing both tie rods, drag link tie rod, new bushings on the steering gear shaft, clean & paint related parts, rebuild the master cylinder, install all new brake lines-front & back, & probably open a few cans of worms along the way. I will start a new thread with before/after & progress pics of the work, if anybody is interested.

[Dan Hiebert]

Hate to be a bearer of bad news, but there's no getting around it, your steering box needs a serious rebuild. You may have overcome some slop with the adjustment, but there should be NO free-play at all in the sector shaft. There should be no free-play at the end of the end of the pitman arm (where it attaches to the tie rods), either, but the shop manual says up to 1/64" is acceptable for 46-54 steering systems, can't be much different from 38. Front end off the ground, and moving the wheels full range with no steering wheel movement means the sector shaft gear was not even contacting the worm gear on the steering shaft. Your adjustment corrected some of that, but theoretically there should always be some contact, no matter how out of whack the adjustment was. Luckily, you may only need to use a basic rebuild kit that replaces the bushings (sector shaft), and bearings (steering shaft). That may bring everything back into harmony. While you've got it apart, might as well check the condition of the sector shaft and worm gear, they may have been damaged as a result of the bearings and bushings being worn, as well as the other tertiary things already mentioned in the string. Andy Bernbaum sells steering box rebuild kits - bushings, bearings, and sector shaft seal. (I just went through this grind last winter to fix my steering.)

[deathbound]

Thought I would try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

First, with the front end on jack stands, I can move the wheels right to left without the steering wheel moving. I noticed about 7/16"-1/2" of fore/aft movement of the pitman arm with no reaction to the steering wheel. Once in a while while driving in 1st gear about 10 mph, if I hit a small bump or pothole, the front end wobbles violently, so I assume what I found is the problem. First question:in lamens terms, how do I adjust this or does something need replacing? (pic attch'd)

Second, I had forgot to loosen the lugnuts before I lifted the frontend, so I had my wife step on the brake. Right side loosened fine, but the left side started to roll-even with the foot brake depressed. This explains why it pulled to the right when braking. Second question:in lamens terms, what adjustment is necessary & how, "minor" or "major" brake adjustment (terms from the service manual)?

Still learning about this car, so I appreciate any & all advice.

(OT question....how do you post large pics with captions above or below? I don't have a photo hosting service? Is there any way to upload from my laptop to do this? Thanks again.)

Hate to be a bearer of bad news, but there's no getting around it, your steering box needs a serious rebuild. You may have overcome some slop with the adjustment, but there should be NO free-play at all in the sector shaft. There should be no free-play at the end of the end of the pitman arm (where it attaches to the tie rods), either, but the shop manual says up to 1/64" is acceptable for 46-54 steering systems, can't be much different from 38. Front end off the ground, and moving the wheels full range with no steering wheel movement means the sector shaft gear was not even contacting the worm gear on the steering shaft. Your adjustment corrected some of that, but theoretically there should always be some contact, no matter how out of whack the adjustment was. Luckily, you may only need to use a basic rebuild kit that replaces the bushings (sector shaft), and bearings (steering shaft). That may bring everything back into harmony. While you've got it apart, might as well check the condition of the sector shaft and worm gear, they may have been damaged as a result of the bearings and bushings being worn, as well as the other tertiary things already mentioned in the string. Andy Bernbaum sells steering box rebuild kits - bushings, bearings, and sector shaft seal. (I just went through this grind last winter to fix my steering.)

Dan, thanks for the info. I noticed about 7/16" (a lot compared 1/64" in the manual) movement in the pitman arm before the steering wheel would move & most of that was the steering shaft moving slightly side to side (as viewed looking straight on with the shaft)-probably worn bushings. I will know more when I open up the steering box-which I planned on. I would not have able to drive the car if the sector shaft gear was not contacting the worm gear on the steering shaft. It drove fine, steered fine (straight with hands off the wheel), & very very little movement of the steering wheel with no reaction to the front wheels.

[Dan Hiebert]

Dan, thanks for the info. I noticed about 7/16" (a lot compared 1/64" in the manual) movement in the pitman arm before the steering wheel would move & most of that was the steering shaft moving slightly side to side (as viewed looking straight on with the shaft)-probably worn bushings. I will know more when I open up the steering box-which I planned on. I would not have able to drive the car if the sector shaft gear was not contacting the worm gear on the steering shaft. It drove fine, steered fine (straight with hands off the wheel), & very very little movement of the steering wheel with no reaction to the front wheels.

I was pondering that when I wrote that, and hoping I wasn't going to taste Kiwi. I'm thinking the weight of the car on the wheels could bring the gears together. That wobble you described would be when the gears separated while you were driving. Your alignment is obvioulsy darn near perfect to go down the road that straight. Those tolerances tend to be tight because any looseness beginning at the steering box is magnified as it goes through the steering system to the wheels. Good luck with repairs, they're not hard to do, hardest part for me was getting the old bearing races out of the steering box. This is one of those "rewarding" fixes, the car will handle much nicer, and there won't be so much adrenaline and excitement keeping it between the ditches