drive shaft removal?

[coW52Dodge]

After getting a bit tired of double clutching and finally finding some decent time for other projects, I decided to replace my transmission with a better one.

Problem is, how does one remove the drive shaft?

I've unbolted the flange from the shaft on the transmission end.

The rear U-bolts that hold it onto the pumpkin are loose but can't seem to get them out all the way. They seem to hang up where the one is positioned in the picture.

There's no real movement in any of the drive shaft. Am I missing something? Do I need to loosen the rear axle or something like that as well?

[Merle Coggins]

What's with the tape?

To get my driveshaft off I have to disconnect it from the axle end first. There's just enough collapse in the slip joint to slide the u-joint off the diff yolk. After that you should be able to remove the front flange from the back of the trans.

Merle

[coW52Dodge]

What's with the tape?

To get my driveshaft off I have to disconnect it from the axle end first. There's just enough collapse in the slip joint to slide the u-joint off the diff yolk. After that you should be able to remove the front flange from the back of the trans.

Merle

Thanks - I'll have to muscle it some more. I figured the back end had to come off first but it just looks like it doesn't want to move much.

The tape is part of my paranoia about those needle bearings falling all over the place when the cup wants to fall off. It also made it easier to mark the sides with a sharpie. Not sure if this needs to be part back exactly the way it was taken off but that's what I intend to do.

I may have gone a little hog wild with the tape, though. :oops:

Edited June 1, 2011 by coW52Dodge

[Dennis_MN]

To remove the drive shaft from either end, you need to remove the retaining bars, then you need to move the u-joint caps to one side. I had to remove the caps to wiggle the joint out of the round retainer. The transmission side has a 1 5/16 nut to remove after the u-joints are removed.

[Dave72dt]

It doesn't make any difference which direction the driveshaft is installed in the pinion yoke or on the transmission. What does matter is correct alignment of the slip yoke that connects the two parts of the driveshaft. There may be a special spline that only allows them to be slid together in one place only so they stay in phase but there may not be.

[NiftyFifty]

The trans side yoke can't come off the shaft unless you remove the retaining nut so no worries about it falling apart. You do have to remove the diff side u-bolts first, once you remove the nuts you need to someties give it a hand with a hammer or a pry bay between the yoke and the u-joint. To get the u-bolts out, or the bolts if it's that style you need to spin the drive shaft to the proper spot...for that you need to raise the rear tires off the ground.

Once the back is off it takes the same man handeling to get the trans side off...and I can see by yours it hasn't ben off in awhile I suspect. same deal...use a pry bar between the yoke and output shaft/drum and while doing that raise and lower the shaft...I usually lay under it while I do that so I don't drop the shaft..then again I figure a bruise goes away and a new DS is $400

[Desotodav]

I've had to remove my drive shaft on numerous occasions throughout my rebuild, and have always removed it from the front first. You should find that there is enough play in the front yoke to slide it back far enough on the tail shaft to slip off the studs attached to the hand brake drum - it only needs to slide about 1/2 inch. You may need to clean some gunk off the tail shaft before the yoke will slide though. I hope the attached picture helps.

You should find an arrow etched into the yoke (16-14-1) and also the tail shaft tube (16-02-1) which indicates where the two should align - be sure to get that right when you install the tail shaft again.

Desotodav

[Merle Coggins]

I guess it depends on which style of u-joints you have. I have the later type where the rear one attaches to the axle flange with u-bolts and the front u-joint flange goes over 4 studs on the trans output flange. I have to remove the rear side from the axle and then I can remove the nuts up front and remove the front end from the trans. If you have the earlier lock plate type you will probably have to press the cups out of the yolks to remove the drive shaft.

I also found out that when the bed wasn't yet installed on my truck that I didn't have enough collapse in the slip joint to be able to get the u-joint to clear the drive flange at the axle. I had to put some weight on the frame to compress the spings. This moves the axle rearward and provided the clearance I needed.

Merle

[Dennis_MN]

I've had to remove my drive shaft on numerous occasions throughout my rebuild, and have always removed it from the front first. You should find that there is enough play in the front yoke to slide it back far enough on the tail shaft to slip off the studs attached to the hand brake drum - it only needs to slide about 1/2 inch. You may need to clean some gunk off the tail shaft before the yoke will slide though. I hope the attached picture helps.

You should find an arrow etched into the yoke (16-14-1) and also the tail shaft tube (16-02-1) which indicates where the two should align - be sure to get that right when you install the tail shaft again.

Desotodav

My 49 had a one piece tail piece that went into the trannie and now I have the two piece unit like the one pictured. Amazing what little details were changed with the model year

[coW52Dodge]

Thanks, all, for the suggestions. I really appreciate the help.

I'll be under the truck again later, when I get home, to see what can be done.

That slip joint, where is that located? Is it where the green arrow is pointing to? That looks like it may move.. Or is it part of the shaft?

The U-bolts are hitting the part of the axle pointed to in yellow. I can probably force them out, should that be necessary but don't like to do that because they have to go back in as well..

Instead, if I pried in the opening pointed to by the red arrow, between the u-joint and its yoke, would that collapse the slip joint enough so I can slip the u-bolts and also joint out?

Also, what holds those cups on, after I slip them out of that joint?

I see that they are captive with a large inner c-clip on the side without the u-bolts and on the transmission side, but what holds them in after it is allowed to slip out of that joint escapes me. I'm just afraid it will turn into a game of pickup sticks with the needle bearings when the cup decides to fall off.

[Merle Coggins]

Yes, pry between the diff yolk and the shaft where you have th red arrow pointing. This should get the u-joint free from the yolk and collapse the slip joint (up at the other end of the shaft). You tape may get in the way when removing the driveshaft at that end. I usually just hold the caps in place as I remove the assembly from the drive yolk, then once it's free and clear wrap tape around to hold them on.

Merle

[coW52Dodge]

Okay, that worked like a chimp, prying where the red arrow is located. The driveshaft was out in minutes. I see now where it collapses: on the drive shaft near the transmission. Those cups didn't volunteer to fall off but were certainly thinking about it so I taped them up again, after I removed them from the yoke.

Thanks again for all the solid advice, fellers.

Now on to actually remove the transmission.

The hardware holding it to the bellhousing is ON there so I don't dare doing it with a 12 point wrench and my sockets are too fat - tomorrow is another day, after I visit Sears to get a 6 point 13/16th.

Edited June 1, 2011 by coW52Dodge

[Dave72dt]

Desotodav posted a thumbnail picture that gives a breakdown of the collapsable slip joint earlier in the thread now that you know where it is. It won't be the end of the world if you take it apart for cleaning but it's extremely important it goes back together on the same splines that it came apart on.

[coW52Dodge]

Thanks - I'll be careful cleaning it and marking everything. I'd like to paint the shaft with some rust bullet before it goes back on.

[ggdad1951]

you have to at least index the cups on the universal joints. My sleeve had a arrow and the drive shaft (used to prior to sand blasting) a mating indicator. I just lined up the cups and was good.

My cups are held on by a retainer clip, aren't they all?

Edited June 3, 2011 by ggdad1951

[coW52Dodge]

you have to at least index the cups on the universal joints. My sleeve had a arrove and the drive shaft (used to prior ro sand blasting) a mating indicator. I just lined up the cups and was good.

My cups are held on by a retainer clip, aren't they all?

Mine are a bit gunked up so can't tell whether there's a clip anywhere. They look loose to me. There certainly is some movement, like they are just being held in by the yoke and the u-bolt.

While laying under the truck, I didn't want to take the risk and taped it up to make sure.

[Dennis_MN]

you have to at least index the cups on the universal joints. My sleeve had a arrove and the drive shaft (used to prior to sand blasting) a mating indicator. I just lined up the cups and was good.

My cups are held on by a retainer clip, aren't they all?

My 49 had 4 straps and 4bolts for each cup. I wish that grabbed those knuled u-joints but they got left at the shop. The new ones have clips like the picture.

[austinsailor]

the ones on your 49 are Cleveland u joints, used through 49. I think 50 was when they went to something else. Clevelands are hard to find.

[coW52Dodge]

Okay, I got the transmission out this morning - someone must have gone happy with an impact gun when they did the clutch last because they were way more 'on' than 'tight is tight'.

When I thought the transmission had cleared, I shifted it to get it from under and that moved the throwout bearing a bit - that will just pop back in without adjustments, right?

I ask because I don't really want to do a clutch job as that actually performs quite well.

Also, when I put the new one in, can I just take the six bolts out of the top cover to remove the shifter? In other words, does that just come off and go back on without too much trouble? It would make re-installation a whole lot easier with that long stick off, since I'm not that high off the ground.

[ggdad1951]

you may have to remove the dust covers to get things to sit right with some fingers on the throw out bearing.

[John-T-53]

Okay, I got the transmission out this morning - someone must have gone happy with an impact gun when they did the clutch last because they were way more 'on' than 'tight is tight'.

When I thought the transmission had cleared, I shifted it to get it from under and that moved the throwout bearing a bit - that will just pop back in without adjustments, right?

I ask because I don't really want to do a clutch job as that actually performs quite well.

Also, when I put the new one in, can I just take the six bolts out of the top cover to remove the shifter? In other words, does that just come off and go back on without too much trouble? It would make re-installation a whole lot easier with that long stick off, since I'm not that high off the ground.

Your T/O bearing "floats" in there when the tranny is out. The fork will loosely hold it in place when you're reinstalling the tranny so shouldn't be a problem. If it keeps slipping down, have a helper step on the clutch pedal just enough to hold it, but not all the way!

What kind of tranny was in there? I have not seen that bolt pattern before, with the right side mount holes positioned like that on the bellhousing. I was wondering what the circular pad was for on my BH.

[Merle Coggins]

You may consider pulling the throwout bearing out and replacing it as long as it's accessible, especially if you don't know how old it is. It's cheap insurance. Also, be very careful about using the clutch pedal to hold the bearing in place when reinstalling a trans. If you add enough pressure to begin to release the clutch the clutch disc could slip out of position and you'll have a tough time getting the trans back in without realigning the clutch.

And yes, you can remove the top cover to make life easier. I have to remove the top cover/shift lever on my trans to pull it out. With Fluid Drive everything is further back and the shift lever will hit the floor before the input shaft will clear the clutch. Just remove the bolts and lift it off. Be sure it's in neutral when you remove it and watch carefully to line up the shift forks onto the sliding collars when you reinstal it. It's not to difficult.

Merle

[coW52Dodge]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice. I got another throw out bearing - like you mentioned: cheap insurance. So just align it with the shaft, between the forks and it should all be okay, then?

I did get some extra bolts at NAPA today that I'll cut the heads off to use as guides. From the looks of it, that could be helpful in aligning it go back in.

Regarding the bolt pattern, the original transmission is dated 51 and the replacement is dated 55. They both have the identical pattern.

The only difference I can see is that the bosses that hold the parking brake assembly is slightly different. I have to elongate the existing holes in the bracket a bit to make it fit.

[coW52Dodge]

Okay, the transmission is almost in except for the last less than an inch. It almost seems like it is getting stuck on something. Could that be the throw out bearing? Maybe it slipped down so it catches the edge of the the outer part of the shaft?

I'll pull it back again tomorrow after work and see what's what.

[Merle Coggins]

If the clutch disc is just off by a hair you'll have difficulty getting the input shaft started into the pilot bushing. I find that I can get a trans in that final inch by depressing the clutch pedal while pushing in on the trans (may need an assistant). It's worked every time for me.

Merle