louie the fly Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Do the 23" & 25" engines share the same bellhousing bolt pattern? I.e. can I put a gearbox from a 230 straight onto a 251? Quote
Andydodge Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Louie, as far as I know, yep, bellhousings are the same, not 100% sure on the flywheel swap tho........andyd Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 25, 2011 Report Posted April 25, 2011 Not sure if you are asking if a bellhousing and transmission can be swapped or just a transmission. Either way where you will run into issues is with the pilot bushing as most long block engines came with a fluid drive and the pilot hole is different. Also if you swap the flywheel you need to take close measurements of where your starter motor engages the ring gear as the crankshaft flanges may be different. Quote
louie the fly Posted April 25, 2011 Author Report Posted April 25, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I have a 230 with 3 speed, and a 250 with a 3 speed & overdrive in a parts car. Both are good runners so I'm tossing up what to do. Put the 230 back in, maybe with the overdrive from the 250, or put the 250 in, perhaps with an auto. If the bolt pattern is the same on both at least I can measure the 230 bellhousing & block and work out how to adapt the auto to the 250, if I go that way. Don't want to take the engine out of the parts car til I'm ready to use it. So much to think about. I'm in a bit of a rut at the moment and lacking motivation. Lots of things happening and no progress on the car. Quote
meathead Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 I know the fluid coupler from a 230 fluid drive will bolt onto a 251 truck motor. Bellhousing fits, too. the spacing and thickness on both crank flanges was the same, so I 'm sure the starter will be fine. Keep starters with their flywheel/ couplers to be sure the teeth match. Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 I know the fluid coupler from a 230 fluid drive will bolt onto a 251 truck motor. Bellhousing fits, too. the spacing and thickness on both crank flanges was the same, so I 'm sure the starter will be fine. Keep starters with their flywheel/ couplers to be sure the teeth match. You are correct. However there will be a problem bolting a non fluid drive flywheel to a fluid drive crsnkshaft and using a non fluid drive bellhousing. Quote
moose Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 I used to think everything fit with everything else. Right now I'm putting a truck flywheel (with 11" pressure plate) behind a Plymouth 218, inside the truck bellhousing. The flange is thinner on the 218, the bolts coming through the flange are too long for the truck flywheel(and would cause interference with the clutch plate), and they are not removable without removing the rear main cap(as far as I can tell). Now I'm in the process of shortening new bolts to go through the other way. It's all in the name of hot rodding... But the bell housing fit right on, no problem. Quote
Young Ed Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 I just put a car flywheel in place of a truck one. Stalled out because the truck 11" clutch bolts are a bigger size than the 9" ones. All because the s10 clutch my T5 came with was a 9". If I end up having to buy a clutch disk I'll probably go back to a 10" or 11" Quote
Scruffy49 Posted April 28, 2011 Report Posted April 28, 2011 Not sure what clutch or flywheel I have, but my 49 B1B currently has a 48 P15 218 with truck 3 on the floor, truck through the floor pedal type starter, truck manifolds, truck generator and brackets... everything lines up. Grandpa drove it like that from 65-74. So I'm hoping against hope that all the truck stuff will swap onto my 56 Savoy 230, the block, guts and head are good... Quote
PatS.... Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 One of the 3 engines my old 49 Chrysler had swapped into it over the years was a 55 Plymouth engine (Canadian 25 inch) The Fluid Drive set-up bolted up to it just fine. The drop in horses was quite noticeable though. I can't recall if the Plymouth was standard or automatic, but automatics were very rare in those up here. Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Now I'm in the process of shortening new bolts to go through the other way. It's all in the name of hot rodding...But the bell housing fit right on, no problem. Make sure you use shoulder bolts as pictured below. If you need some let me know as I have a box full. Quote
moose Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Thanks, I got mine at the local hardware store, grade 8 stuff, they didn't have anything with the right shoulder and the right length. The flanges each measured 3/8" so I bought longer ones, with 3/4" of shoulder. Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 29, 2011 Report Posted April 29, 2011 Thanks, I got mine at the local hardware store, grade 8 stuff, they didn't have anything with the right shoulder and the right length. The flanges each measured 3/8" so I bought longer ones, with 3/4" of shoulder. What I have is also grade 8 stuff but I had to cut them to the correct length. Quote
Andydodge Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 As an aside, you guys refer to those bolts as Grade 8, & I note that the box states "SAE".......In Oz they would be sold/known as UNF as in Unfied Fine thread, as distinct from UNC, Unfied Coarse.........and both UNF & UNC are always High Tensile as far as I am aware ........I have never seen UNF or UNC in "mild steel" or hardware grade bolts.........are they available in the US?........btw we also have had to deal with English crap, ie, BSW or British Standard Whitworth or BSP, British Standard Fine.......both truly crap..........and then theres always British bike threads and Damn Metric............lol.............will go take my meds now........andyd Quote
Don Coatney Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 As an aside, you guys refer to those bolts as Grade 8, & I note that the box states "SAE".......In Oz they would be sold/known as UNF as in Unfied Fine thread, as distinct from UNC, Unfied Coarse.........and both UNF & UNC are always High Tensile as far as I am aware ........I have never seen UNF or UNC in "mild steel" or hardware grade bolts.........are they available in the US?........btw we also have had to deal with English crap, ie, BSW or British Standard Whitworth or BSP, British Standard Fine.......both truly crap..........and then theres always British bike threads and Damn Metric............lol.............will go take my meds now........andyd SAE is referenct to Society of Automotive Engineers. Here are a couple of interesting links. http://standards.sae.org/j429_199901 http://www.unified-eng.com/scitech/bolt/boltmarks.html Quote
Niel Hoback Posted April 30, 2011 Report Posted April 30, 2011 Andydodge, did you ever try decaffinated? Quote
louie the fly Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Posted May 2, 2011 Andydodge, did you ever try decaffinated? Funny! I used to be into pommie bikes & like Andy said, we had loads of British Standard threads. All the old English bike stuff was British Standard Cycle 26TPI, LH & RH. A pain to get taps. I haven't progressed much with the swap other than designing an adapter to put a turbo 350 onto the 251. Does anyone have the dimensions of the bolt & dowel holes on the back of the block? Quote
Desotodav Posted May 2, 2011 Report Posted May 2, 2011 Louie, I use Classic Fasteners in SA for all of my hard to get stuff. When you get the bolt dimensions that you're chasing, be sure to call Leanne or Derek at Classic Fasteners for the bolts as I'm sure they'd have what you need. Check them out at this link... http://www.classicfasteners.com.au/ Desotodav Quote
Roger the Dodger Posted May 2, 2011 Report Posted May 2, 2011 Louie, Wilcap do the conversion kit. Priced at $US575. http://www.wilcap.com/chryslerfh.html#230350BOPAT But if you are doing it yourself there is a photo of the adaptor plate on the site, might help. Roger. Quote
louie the fly Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Posted May 2, 2011 Desotodav, we buy all our fasteners from Universal Fasteners. If they don't have what I need I generally get by with what I can get. But I have heard of Classic Fasteners before. I think I came across them at a swap meet or something. Roger (the Dodger), I have checked out the Wilcap one, but designing stuff is what I do for a living so, yet again, I thought I'd give it a crack. I'd just like to get the block hole dimensions so I can cross check what I've measured. Unfortunately I can't put the block on the CMM & digitise the hole positions. I'm just in the process of changing jobs, but my (soon to be ex) boss said I'm welcome to come in & use the machines. He's a car guy too. Quote
Andydodge Posted May 2, 2011 Report Posted May 2, 2011 Don & Neil, am aware of SAE, nope, I drink coffee, not dishwater......my understanding is that if you use "SAE" in relation to a figure of measurement then its refering to the "AF" or Across Flats(from one side of the head to the other) measurement of the head of the bolt, but the actual bolt thread size is either UNF or UNC.........not SAE.......am not trying to be a smartarse here either, just that in referring to this type of thing I like to be correct............Andyd Quote
Don Coatney Posted May 2, 2011 Report Posted May 2, 2011 I believe SAE is fine thread and USS is course thread. Follow this link. http://www.frentzandsons.com/Hardware%20References/tapanddrillsizes.htm Quote
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