201 hop up project

[Cpt.Fred]

i just made an appointment at a machine shop around the corner,

they're specialized on old motorcycle engines but do a lot of hot rod stuff as well. didn't even know they existed until about a year ago, and didn't know they

do anything other than cycles until yesterday.

they will take 0.030 or 0.040 off and repair the plug threads, since i found out

one of them is damaged and another at least questionable.

afterwards i borrow a tool to take out the valves and then check the seats and guides... that will be the ugly part.

since i had nearly no smoke from the oil breather i have high hopes that the rings aren't too bad and afterwards the engine will be relatively ok again.

[greg g]

Wonder if you were loosing compression around the spark plugs???

Nice thing to be able to do busiess in der Nachbarschaft.

[Cpt.Fred]

no, i weren't, because i immediately fixed the spot with a brass ring under each plug as soon as i noticed it last year. but now that's off...

yes, nachbarschaft is nice, i hope they're good at what they do. guess they'll charge around 100 EUR for the job.

they'll probably laugh because i plan to drag the head along on my bicycle, but the weather is nice and i only own one car:rolleyes:

[Cpt.Fred]

alright, that's it, i've had it with this head business!

today i walked out of the 3rd machine shop that stated they could do the

job and when i came in there said *H***L NO!*... well, what did they expect?

a cyl head the size of a pencil case?

oooh, yeah, like i didn't tell you on the phone already that it's cast iron.

and side valve, yeeees, lots of metal to remove... well whattayouknow?

i even told them it was 25kg and about 60cm (23") long when we talked on the phone!

and i told them i needed roughly 1mm ( 0. 040") taken away.

they must have thought "he doesn't know anything, he means 4/10mm, stupid little customer, i'm doing this for 35years, he's young, doesn't know anything, doesn't even have a haircut!"

well, thanks a lot, mister. hope y'all go bankrupt soon.

end of rant.

and, sadly, end of cyl head grinding issues for now.

i got the valves done and all the tools nessecary for a good seat cutting job.

that's stuff i can do on my own here and where i can skip all those lousy machine shop guys in oh-so-mighty-engineer-country-of-germany.

can you believe it, he called my cyl head a piece of old sh*t and the car a lame duck that wouldn't drive any better with enhanced compression... what does he know? he grew up in the GDR, they weren't even allowed to buy 4 strokes with more than 66cui. daaaaaaaaaaah.... maybe that was the problem.

that is just a shame. thanks for reading this, i already feel better now.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Cpt.Fred

[Plymouthy Adams]

enjoyed the rant..though it is most frustrating to you...what in the name of sam do they have for machine shops over there? AND I assure you the first engine out of Germany was not a dual overhead cam with inserts and pressure oiling..folks quickly forget the trail of tears to the modern stuff we have today.. you may have to sneak it to England..

how about the farm tractor repair folks..get away from the so called motor car and get back to the roots..and the trucking industry..somebody bound to be doing diesel heads...even marine engine folks should have a source for this type of work..

[greg g]

So apparently no one services overheated BMW or Benz 6 cylinder heads????

Nobody works on trucks, busses, heavy duty diesels??? Das ist verrückt!

[greg g]

This place has pictures of the machines necessary to do the work on their site.

http://www.herbert-paul.de/index.php?page=refer

[Cpt.Fred]

apparently the people around me have unlearnt to repair things.

buy, buy, buy, new, new, new!

"geiz ist geil", as the campaign of a big electronic discounter says.

no matter if that greed results in bad quality and major exploitation of other countries.

that must be the reason there are just 4 shops for this kind of stuff here in this huge city.

the others that wanted to work have changed their subject, those who want to keep their misery and insult people live on for another few years.

well, this is getting political and my wine bottle gets empty...

let's just stop this for now:rolleyes:

maybe one day i cross the path of a cheap milling machine?

cheers, everyone!

fred

greg, did i ever ask you where you learned your german?

Edited May 4, 2011 by Cpt.Fred

[greg g]

7th and 8th grade. Viele Jahre in die Vergangenheit!

Und Babylon 9 online Übersetzungsprogramm, um zu prüfen..........

[T120]

Hi Fred,I look forward to reading your experiences with your car.As far as machine work ,I have encountered the same problem here - Indifference,(disinterest if you like) in old technology when trying to get work done at a reasonable price.I realize that you are at a disadvantage as you are in Germany with trying to locate parts at a reasonable price and with mailing/shipping costs what they are. I sincerely hope your enthusiasm continues and that you're able to race your car this year.I enjoyed watching the videos - It would be great to be there .It looks like you folks have a lot of fun.I wish I could offer you more help in supplying parts.The Canadian and US engine blocks are different as you undoubtedly have gathered from this forum. .The only part US part I have to offer (free) at this time is a dipstick ...

[Cpt.Fred]

ralph: i still have mine.

and thanks for the kind words, i definately will race this thing this year, even if i have to put the old setup back on it will run better than before.

tim: tractors, eh? good idea... i might have to leave town for that but let's see.

greg: i will check out the adress you posted today.

thanks, everyone!

[Roger the Dodger]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with machine shops. Very frustrating. I am lucky, my neighbor has an engine reco business and is a car man. Drives a '49 Ford sedan with 327 and Saginaw box. Roger

[Robert Horne]

apparently the people around me have unlearnt to repair things.

buy, buy, buy, new, new, new!

"geiz ist geil", as the campaign of a big electronic discounter says.

no matter if that greed results in bad quality and major exploitation of other countries.

that must be the reason there are just 4 shops for this kind of stuff here in this huge city.

the others that wanted to work have changed their subject, those who want to keep their misery and insult people live on for another few years.

well, this is getting political and my wine bottle gets empty...

let's just stop this for now:rolleyes:

maybe one day i cross the path of a cheap milling machine?

cheers, everyone!

fred

Capt Fred, A friend of mine was a Machine shop teacher for many years.

He could take parts into school and repair the parts to show,

& teach the class. At the beginning of the year, he would

buy a car, and have the class work on it until it was complete.

Maybe there is a school machine shop near you...good luck..

[Cpt.Fred]

after a busy weekend here is a little update now...

when i got the valves out most of them looked like this:

no good... i gave them to a friend to have them reground

and he lent me this great old kit here:

this nice tool, a seat cutter for hardened seat inserts,

helped me to cut new seats in no time, amazing little thingy:)

got the valves back from my friend, looking good.

now grind, grind, grind...

that's more like it:

[Cpt.Fred]

afterwards i erased the carbon build up on the pistons.

#4 must have chewed on some hard stuff once...

anyway, i think it will work. masked for cleaning:

and then another strange homemade russian tool:

it works great!

and good news: i finally found a shop able to mill my head!

it's quite expensive, but i should have it back on tuesday.

oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!

and bad news...

we got kicked off our garage yard. the premises were sold

and we have to leave to the end of june to make room for

some boring 6-story-carloft-townhouse-noble-something.

very sad...

now i have to hurry even more to get the car rolling.

[Cpt.Fred]

i set the valves cold yesterday evening after work.

since i do not have an imperial feeler gauge i had to convert to mm

and chose .25mm (.0098") for the intake valves and .30mm (.0118")

for exhaust. rechecked twice... i hope this will work.

manual states .007" and .012" cold for the '40 model 201 engine,

so i thought this would be a good compromise.

all parts arrived from terill machine, so now i only have to wait for the

machine shop to finish the head!

[P-12 Tommy]

Looks like you're pluggin' right along. Bet you can't wait to start it! Good luck Fred.

Tom

[Cpt.Fred]

thanks, tom!

just came back from the machine shop, the head is ready and looks good.

intake is ready, too...

when i wanted to fetch it this morning we realized we had once again forgotten

to put in ports for vaccuum testing... so Gobi had to take it back once more.

tomorrow is the big day.

let's see how far we can get... there's a show on saturday:rolleyes:

[Cpt.Fred]

i completed the engine today and it fired right up... so far so good.

the missfire is gone and i have a constant compression reading on all 6 cylinders... though they were a little low at first.

i'm trying to convince myself that was due to the fact there wasn't a sufficient oil film on the cylinder walls yet.

i did the test right after tightening the head.

anyway, idle is still FAR too high, i guess around 1500- 2000rpm.

even higher than before...

idle mixture screws are nearly completely closed and i spray-checked for air leaks but didn't find any.

still have to check ignition timing,

but i can't imagine it would be that effective on rpm...

don't have any photos yet, but we put in a balance "tube"

(consisting of 2 short pieces of rubber hose because we wanted to have

the possibility to vary the diameter with reducers later on)

and added ports for manifold vaccuum testing.

any ideas anyone?

i must admit i am a little confused.

maybe this calls for progressive linkage after all.

but on the bright side: it came to live instantly, the missfiring is history

and it sounds like a dragster:rolleyes:

[moose]

If the idle screw doesn't do anything, it may be that throttle plate is open too far. When it gets to a certain point above idle, it stops using the idle mixture circuit. Maybe this is the case? If so I've heard what helps is to drill a very small hole in the throttle plates(1/16 inch or less, and slowly step it up), this will allow it to still use the idle circuit. I've never had to do this, just may be a possibility with the pulse separation caused by the individual intake tubes. Or the balance tube is too small?

[moose]

Might also help to break it in very well and adjust it as it wears in.

[greg g]

double check that the throttle plaates are fully closed. If one is hanging open even a bit you wo;t be able to adjust anything to do with the idle.

[P-12 Tommy]

double check that the throttle plaates are fully closed. If one is hanging open even a bit you wo;t be able to adjust anything to do with the idle.

I agree!

Tom

[Cpt.Fred]

the balance tube is about 1/2" in diameter.

i will take the carbs off above the throttle body and have a look at what's happening there... maybe i have to loosen the screws, set the plates and then tighten them again.

could it be that the throttle shafts are so worn out that the amount of excess air is enough to make it race like this?

i will try to run the system with one carb only, don't know how exactly i'm going to do this but i try.

[Cpt.Fred]

it's alive, heureka!

the throttle plate of the center carburetor didn't fit correctly and it seems

that i accidentally mounted it upside down.

sometimes i cannot believe my own stupidity:rolleyes:

anyway, i made sure everything would close and open correctly

(though i have to change a lever on the linkage to gain full opening

of all 3 throttles, right now it's only about 80%), put the carbs back on

and started.

now the negine has a real nice idle!

i doublechecked everything from oillevel to the wheel bolts

and then rode it for the first time with the new setup.

happy happy happy!

we rode to the show on saturday afternoon, no filters and just a few pipes under the car...

great fun, finally all the work payed off!

on the way back it suddenly lost power and started massive backfiring.

the last 150m we had to push... well, could only be ingnition stuff (i hoped).

we just shut the garage doors and went to a party.

this morning i did a compression test once more, and this time everything is much better,

now that it had run a while.

between 100 and 115psi on all cylinders. nice.

spark plugs were a little black, but it only did some idling and innercity traffic so far,

and it isn't synchronized yet.

then i took the distributor out and checked it, until a friend told me to check the vacuum advance spring,

and there it was!

great luck that i can't throw stuff away, i still had the old, broken one,

and it still had the spring in it.

i did a rough TDC timing and started, everything is back to normal.

next jobs are a major tune-up with carb syncronising,

putting a stiffer spring into the oil pressure valve to raise pressure,

finishing the airfilter adapters and build the exhaust.

but the biggest step has been taken and the system finally works!