Anyone using zddp plus in their oil?

[Don Coatney]

How many besides me have read the book "They call me Mister 500" written by the CEO of STP Andy Granatelli? This book is a good read.

http://www.amazon.com/They-call-me-Mister-500/dp/B0007EIM1I/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1342453599&sr=1-1&keywords=they+call+me+mister+500

[oldodge41]

How many besides me have read the book "They call me Mister 500" written by the CEO of STP Andy Granatelli? This book is a good read.

I have read it. It is a good read. Been a long time, may have to read it again now.

[Plymouthy Adams]

sounds interesting... I have not read it..did see a couple of them in action at Indy..

[Don Coatney]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Granatelli

Andy was a promoter as seen in the paragraph below.

"Andy" Granatelli (born March 18, 1923; Dallas, Texas) was the CEO of STP (motor oil company) and a major figure in automobile racing events.

Along with brothers Vince and Joe, Andy first worked as an auto mechanic and 'speed-shop' entrepreneur, modifying engines such as the 'flathead' Ford into racing-quality equipment. During World War II, he became a promoter of automobile racing events, such as the "Hurricane Racing Association," which combined racing opportunities for up-and-coming drivers with crowd-pleasing theatrics. Hurricane events, according to Granatelli in his autobiography They Call Me Mister 500, included drivers who were experts at executing—and surviving—roll-over and end-over-end crashes, and also an ambulance that not only got caught up into the race but also ejected a stretcher (with a dummy on it) into the way of the racers."

[PapsPlymouth]

Valvoline makes a racing oil, i think it is called ZR-1. It is formulated with zinc, and comes in a heavier weight. can't remember exactly right now

[190bearplace]

The follwing may be more info than most want to read but is by one of the top lubrication experts in the country.

Otherwise intellegent technicians are increasingly turning

to racing oil and oil supplements in an effort to prevent

damage to flat tappet camshafts in fairly normal use. The

common thread seems to be that ZDDP (historically common in

thrifted oil products) is essential and that more ZDDP is

better than less ZDDP. The stories and articles are filled

with misinformation about the government somehow forcing a

reduction in zinc content.

Most aftermarket oil supplements use ZDDP to provide extra

extreme pressure protection. ZDDP and other similar

additives have absolutely zero benefit when the normal

elasto-hydrodynamic lubrication (EHL) is present. This EHL

prevents metal to metal contact. It also reduces friction.

Oil pressure as we commonly know as that read on an oil

pressure gauge does NOT provide a reasonable indication of

EHL. In fact, the use of oil that is too thick will usually

increase the pressure indicated by that gauge while reducing

actual oil flow AND REDUCING EHL. When this extra thick oil

is used, ZDDP or a similar additive will be needed far

sooner because metal to metal contact will occur far sooner.

When proper oil flow and EHL is already being provided,

adding a bunch of ZDDP to the oil will have no benefit. And,

when added in the quantities that are now being recommended

in some circles, oil oxidation can be dramatically

increased. In small properly managed quantities ZDDP can

reduce oxidation/corrosion. In larger concentrations that

are NOT determined based on an understanding of the overall

chemistry of the oil product in question, oil oxidation can

be dramatically increased. Homebrewing is fine for beer, but

not for oil.

The current and rapidly spreading urban legends recommending

the use of racing oil to save all flat tappet camshafts from

an extremely early death is most probably causing a great

deal of the damage that is driving the spread of that same

urban legend. Those who follow the recommendations will

almost certainly end up using a much thicker oil. That will,

in many cases, compromise the elasto-hydrodynamic

lubrication. This is especially true of engines that are not

operated under extremely heavy load racing conditions.

Racing oil has absolutely no legal requirements and no

industry standards that must be met. It can be almost

anything from molasses to a group IV base stock. And, it is

probably almost as likely to actually be molasses as it is

to be a high quality group IV base stock. In most cases it

will probably be a group I or group II base stock. It will

also in most cases lack the additives that allow most

mainstream industry approved oil products to last at least 3

months or 3,000 miles (and often 4-5 times that). Racing oil

is often formulated to last only the length of the race

which is not generally very long and is more frequently

signaled by engine failure than a checkered flag (you might

want to think about that).

Adding a ZDDP supplement may further accelerate oxidation of

these racing oils, and other oil products. Racing oil

products already oxidize much more rapidly than other high

quality mainstream oil products. The result is a breakdown

of the oil and further thickening of an oil product that is

already too thick to provide proper elasto-hydrodynamic

lubrication under most tcommon conditions.

ZDDP, when properly used is a cheap and effective way to

improve the ability of a cheap base stock to provide a layer

of last-ditch protection after EHL has failed. ZDDP reacts

with engine metal surfaces to form a sacrificial film that

is destroyed before the base metal is damaged.

The current misinformed recommendations are replacing EHL

with ZDDP. The result is likely to compromise many engines.

Don't fall for it.

Kevin McCartney

Educator/Instructor/Consultant

Automotive Support Services

Fresno, California, USA

[Don Coatney]

I have asked this question before. Has anyone ever actually seen a Mopar flathead 6 camshaft that has failed (as in wiped the lobes) due to lack of zinc?

[Plymouthy Adams]

I have seen cam shafts (not flathead) that have been wiped due to improper break-in..all of these have been for HP engines with high lift profiles and the idiots try to break in the cam with high compression valve springs instead of stock then change after running them a goo number of miles..most of these filure are further accelerated by the fact they love to idle these engines for the whump factor..while music to the ear..it pure pressure on the mechanics involved..and before someone jumps..we are not talking roller cams here..other cam problems have usually been traced back to the actual grind of the cam nd the failure to surface hardened the lobes after the fact of a grind job..remember to regrind your cam involves the undercutting of the lobe to give you more ramp for higher lift and meat to profile the duration of the cam by shaping the ramps..it is the follow up hardening that gives the cam its chance at a long life..

[greg g]

not to mention most of these new cams are coming from our Chinese friends, thier metalurgy skills seem somewhat questionable.