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Welding a 81 camaro subframe to my 1948 plymouth Special Deluxe


tonyciccotelli

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Anyone have any tips or methods of doing this? i just bought the subframe and I am cleaning it up before i measure it and cut it to weld it. if anyone has done this before I will take any tips u can offer and even pics if you got it. Any help would be great

Having done it several years ago I say don't. Most clips will put your tires out beyond the fenders by a inch or so. I over came this by taking 4" out of the center, but made for a tight fit between the frame rails. Only ram horn exh manifolds will fit. Plus alot of other mods.

If I had it to do over again I would Fatman it

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Tony:

My car was already sub-framed with a S-10 front end. It looks good. I didn't do it, it was already done when I bought it. The front tires sit inside the fenders. I had to buy a motor mount conversion kit, due to the motor sitting too far forward. Also I'm using a 700R4 Tranny. I'm using the rear tranny brace out of a 80's model camaro and there is about 3/4 of an inch difference between the inner frame rails and the tranny cross member. I'll fabricate mounts to weld to the inside of the rails to mount it to. I would take pics, but my camera is O.O.C.

If I can find a camera I'll send pics..

God Bless US All...

John 47Plevy

Make sure you measure everything over and over and over before cutting anything. When they did mine, they slid the S10 frame inside the ply frame and welded, then they welded plates around the seams. It appears to be pretty solid.

Edited by 1947PLEVY
C.R.S.
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I have spoken to a few people who have done this and they say the frame will slide right into the old frame. My father and I spent like 2 hrs and measured every possible thing we can. From wheel to whell and inside and outside frame size all the way to width of old frame tires to the new one. the numbers suggest it will work

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I have spoken to a few people who have done this and they say the frame will slide right into the old frame. My father and I spent like 2 hrs and measured every possible thing we can. From wheel to wheel and inside and outside frame size all the way to width of old frame tires to the new one. the numbers suggest it will work

The parts are readily available to rebuild the stock A-Frame suspension, several good disc brake kits are available, ECI has a good dual master cylinder kit, and there is a R&P steering kit available.

All together MUCH cheaper than a sub frame and no cutting or measuring.:D

What is the goal with the sub frame???

Do the above solutions not meet the end result of a sub-frame.

I'm not against sub frames IF they are done correctly. Sadly, few are, most are relegated to the scrap heap when the sub framer realizes AFTER the car is cut up that it is a job beyond his scope and finances.

It's not a job for the faint of heart.

Also consider resale. I would never buy a sub framed car unless I knew the builder and his previous work and his reputation was impeccable.

I hate to see a decent car scrapped.:eek:

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The parts are readily available to rebuild the stock A-Frame suspension, several good disc brake kits are available, ECI has a good dual master cylinder kit, and there is a R&P steering kit available.

All together MUCH cheaper than a sub frame and no cutting or measuring.:D

What is the goal with the sub frame???

Do the above solutions not meet the end result of a sub-frame.

I'm not against sub frames IF they are done correctly. Sadly, few are, most are relegated to the scrap heap when the sub framer realizes AFTER the car is cut up that it is a job beyond his scope and finances.

It's not a job for the faint of heart.

Also consider resale. I would never buy a sub framed car unless I knew the builder and his previous work and his reputation was impeccable.

I hate to see a decent car scrapped.:eek:

I agree totally with this statement. I believe subframing should only be done by someone with the expertise or knowledge or access to same. There are lots of people on this forum who can help you modify your car using the existing frame. If you want to do it for horsepower reasons, go with something more modern. I also hate to see a car cut and then scrapped. Not saying you will, but it happens all the time.

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The parts are readily available to rebuild the stock A-Frame suspension, several good disc brake kits are available, ECI has a good dual master cylinder kit, and there is a R&P steering kit available.

All together MUCH cheaper than a sub frame and no cutting or measuring.:D

What is the goal with the sub frame???

Do the above solutions not meet the end result of a sub-frame.

I'm not against sub frames IF they are done correctly. Sadly, few are, most are relegated to the scrap heap when the sub framer realizes AFTER the car is cut up that it is a job beyond his scope and finances.

It's not a job for the faint of heart.

Also consider resale. I would never buy a sub framed car unless I knew the builder and his previous work and his reputation was impeccable.

I hate to see a decent car scrapped.:eek:

I like the ECI brake kit but I have not found anything on updating my suspension. Anyone know of a company or a website that sells an bolt on or weld on suspension upgrade?

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espo makes new springs, fat man makes droped spindles for lowering, and there are several options for mounting front shocks to the frame. Check Jim Yergins post for how he did his using truck shock mounts. But its your car do it as you like.

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I like the ECI brake kit but I have not found anything on updating my suspension. Anyone know of a company or a website that sells an bolt on or weld on suspension upgrade?

I'm not raggin' on you, but when completely rebuilt, you have a stout, strong independant A-Frame suspension, on an uncut frame.

What would be "updated"? by changing what's there.

The only difference I see is that these cars have a kingpin rather than balljoints.

Not quite sure how clipping to gain balljoints is an "upgrade"

Again, I'm NOT against clips, not at all. On many old cars, a Camaro clip is certainly an upgrade.

I think for regular street driving, the stock front rebuilt with discs is comparable to any Camaro clip and buckets cheaper.

Basically, I'm just saying be sure what you gain is worth the work and expense.

If this is just an excuse to work with Dad on a project, well, that's as good an excuse for clipping as any I could hear. Go for it and relish the experience!!

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Time to chime in here, on my 48 Saratoga and 48 P-15, long before i found this board i listened to one of my "builder buddys" that has done a lot of cars and he talked me into cutting off "that outdated junk front end" and putting on newer "modern suspension", the P-15 we put a volarie front clip on and the Saratoga we out a rear steer camaro clip on. fast foward a few years about 10 or so, i picked up a 50 P-20 and put discs on it and relocated the shocks and am working on rack and pinion steering. the clips we put on were a waist of time, the stock upgraded works as good as the clip and i have nowhere near the time in it as in the other two, so what did i gain putting on the clips? nothing but a couple of cut up frames. the ride is no better, steering is no better, all have disc brakes. If i remember right the 74 up are front steer and won't fit as good as a rear steer, it will be close to where the stock frame horns need to go on the front clip. and they don't just slide into the stock frame they are wider by a couple inches.

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It isnt that hard to clip a car. No more work (time wise) then changing all that other stuff over. A clip can be bought for $50.00. You can spend $800.00 easy to change over to disc-shocks- rack-ect. Do it your way. Both work fine if DONE RIGHT. If you don't know how to do it have it done. As long as you enjoy your car however its done thats what counts.

Bill

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Now I am going to put my 2 cents worth in. Almost any clip that you chose will need to have the suspension rebuilt as will the brakes so it is not much cheaper than rebuilding the original suspension. Before you clip read a posting on updating your original frame with more modern balljoint spindles in the techinical section of this forum. I have made the adapters to install a 1977 Chrysler Cordoba upper A frame and spindles with brakes and an adapter for the lower A frame. Just to rebuild the A frames with new ball joints and bushings can get expensive, then you have the dics turned and buy rebuilt calipers along with new wheel bearings it is not cheap.

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I am doing it cause it is my car and that is what i want. my father worked for a machine shop for over 20 years and knows metal. he has welded for many years.

Not questioning your or anyone else's ability, and yes it is your car and you can do what you want. Working on a project with your father is great, I'm happy for you.

The point was if chevy stuff is so much better, why don't people build chevy's and leave mopars alone. My opinion. Just like beating a dead horse I guess.

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Not questioning your or anyone else's ability, and yes it is your car and you can do what you want. Working on a project with your father is great, I'm happy for you.

The point was if chevy stuff is so much better, why don't people build chevy's and leave mopars alone. My opinion. Just like beating a dead horse I guess.

Well it came down to my father seeing this car for sale and loved it. it didnt come down to is it a chevy or ford. He said i would like to put it to power steering and pwer brakes along with disc in the front and a big block chevy. We did some research and that can all be done with adding a subframe from a camaro and we will get a new suspension in the process. along with a swaybar in the front.

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There have been a bunch of plymouths done along this line......just watch ebay.

They come up pretty regularly. Various methods of modifications.

Some get completed and are nice looking cars.

But there are probably more "projects" that need to be completed......just seems to

show that a lot of guys have good intentions, but for some reason don't get the

job accomplished.

Good luck on the changes, if that's the way you decide to go.

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What ever you do don't put a chevy in it, use a 440. big block chryslers fit very well and it will still be all mopar. Billl i don't know where you can get a clip that cheap, most around here are 400 and up.

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while the 440 is a fit..(just a dogs breath different than a samll block) you do not always have to go to that extreme especially with the average cost of the big block today..getting hard to find and quite pricey. The 318's are very available yet, economical to bump up if you did want a few ponies more and have as much dress up items these days as the big blocks and other brand x makes. The only block that is not so much supported is the 3.9 V6..this is also a very nice engine for all to consider and a bit shorter in length...very much available from low line ram trucks, ram vans and the ever so popular Dakota..very early model was carburated...

if you want a talking 318 please use the 340 cam profile..the very secret was the split duration/lift of the exhaust and intake...get the police cast iron intake, dual plane..(recommended by the mopar builder's bible) and run good natched port factory cst iron..more than ample for any street driven car...

in todays economy and shrinking dollar..just keep in mind that it cost money to run these puppies even after the layout/cost to build..

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while the 440 is a fit..(just a dogs breath different than a samll block) you do not always have to go to that extreme especially with the average cost of the big block today..getting hard to find and quite pricey.

Tim, I tried to sell my 440/727, running well, for $1500 Canadian. Got one call :confused: Had it advertised 4 times.

Thinking serious of putting it in the '49 when I get back to it.

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Tim he is wanting to put a bb chevy in it, thats why i said 440. around here i can get a 440 for 500 or less. even the bbc are around 600. my P-15 with the 440 with just a 509 purple shaft and tunnel ram would turn 11's.

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