Anyone try these disc brake adapters ?

[PatS....]

Guess what? your not - so your opinion does not matter to me. dezeldoc and rollies's opinion however does matter to me because they ARE my customers.

WOW!!!!

I would think that on a board of, oh, maybe a couple of HUNDRED potential customers that a statement like that would "scare" off 99% of them.

Did you ever consider that Don, or others (like me) who HAVE a competitors kit might buy another Mopar and decide that, for one reason or another that they may consider YOUR kit for the next one??? Not after that statement they won't.

To tell a POTENTIAL customer, and a whole community of POTENTIAL customers that their opinion doesn't matter is like pulling a Plaxico Burress, shooting yourself in the foot. (Everyone on this board (was) a POTENTIAL customer)

[48mirage]

Ok fellas, I've been reading this thread all along. Maybe Scarebird came off defensive, but it looks like it was justified. His product and reputation was slammed and pictures were supplied where the mock up was done incorrectly. As far as Scarebird's "scare" tactics, advertising... I have read about all of the kits that each of the vendors have posted on the internet. When I do mine I will make my judgements based on what I feel satisfies my requirements not somebody else's opinion. I was glad to see Scarebird come on the board and clear some things up. The customer thing is entertaining, if I spend my money with a vendor I do expect a little of his time if I have a problem, but if I'm not a customer, I don't expect him to invest much time with me when I put down his product. How can your opinion be rationale without having the product in hand?

Ok here is the soap bos for the next guy.

[Plymouthy Adams]

agree to disagree..the very ad you are defending is calling out the "inferior design" of the competitior...this was a scare tactic per say...when in actuality it should only have stated "install our kit with less invasive work by the installer due to the fact drilling and tapping is not a needed step"..no..he called himself out..sorry...and how many other times has a something gone kinda under the radar and the customer getting put aside until brought to the light such as this...no my friend..only now will this possibily get corrected..only now does it seem buyer two was "asked" for input that he offered upfront prior...I have no stake in any of this..but as a consumer...words speaks volumes...

[Don Coatney]

but if I'm not a customer, I don't expect him to invest much time with me when I put down his product. .

Please explain how I "put down" his product?

[PatS....]

"His product and reputation was slammed and pictures were supplied where the mock up was done incorrectly."

I looked back and the product or the reputation were not slammed, but there was a discussion of pro's and con's, which to me is more than legit on a board like this.

As far as a mock-up done incorrectly, a kit maker would run in to this alot and shouldn't take it as a put-down of the product. Help out the person to do the install properly. Maybe improve the instructions to prevent a similar misunderstanding.

I don't have a problem with ANY of the kits available including Scarebird's. The more the merrier.

I have always had a problem with negative advertising, the pointing out "flaws" in the competitors products which are, in fact, not flaws but simply a different way to approach a solution.

If one is OK with pointing out "flaws" in a competitors product, then one should be OK with having the tables turned.

I say don't pick apart the competition, but point out the design and benefits of your product, and maybe beat the competition on price or service. Negativity hardly ever works...

[48mirage]

Well Don, my response was not linked to yours or directed to you specifically, but there were statements in the thread that were negative towards the scarebird product.

Pat, using your own post, you accused scarebird of using "scare" tactics. That is an assault upon there reputation even if done tongue in cheek. Read your quote again. If you copied it correctly, the scarebird ebay statement was, "...we feel this is very wrong, and engineered a solid solution." Feelings are an emotional state and do not represent a measureable quality or quantity. The statement that they "engineered a solid solution." is measureable and quantifiable. Does anyone have any engineering data that the scarebird product is inferior? I don't think so? The fact that pictures were posted to demonstrate a problem would be damaging to the company even though it has been revealed that the problem was in the installation. I read your first post again and no where in your quote of the scarebird ad could I find the word flaw. You have just perpetuated the perception that scarebird was using an unethical tactic to gain competitive advantage. If scarebird's response is accurate he has a comprehensive built in improvement program, it's called "kaizen".

Tim, I went to one of scarebird's ebay adds, I cannot find the words "inferior design", again not what was printed but erroneously quoted and perpetuated here.

Who's turn is it now?

[Plymouthy Adams]

mine..I read it as such when they stated that they felt the other designs are very wrong and engineered a solid solution which directly infers that the aforementioned products are an inferior design/product...its a pop shot..get over it..move on...they threw the first snowball with their ad...

as an added touch..do these people have your "measureable and quantifiable" data to support the fact that the others are "very wrong" for their approach..don't think so there either and the omission of the word VERY, which carries a lot of weight as a descriptior, was not properly listed in your quote of the ad...so maybe we can assume you have a sacrebird kit, that is fine..all is well..others had problems...that is fine..maybe it will get fixed..either/or..tit for tat...the forum is a clearing house..the company had the opportunity to address this in manner which would have satisfied all but chose to do otherwise and assualt the character of our fourm members and the personnel of the US Navy who I may add serve this country with pride and honor.

[55 Fargo]

Guess what? your not - so your opinion does not matter to me. dezeldoc and rollies's opinion however does matter to me because they ARE my customers.

Listen up, I am a potential customer, and I have spoken to you personally on the phone a little while back, I found you to ba pleasant person, and willing to give me information on your product, you were not pushy with me to make a sale, so that went well.

Having worked in sales in the past, I know many customers would do business with me because they trusted me, had respect for me, and I was always willing to troubleshoot any problems that would arise.That my friend is the expectation of a good businessman, who want to build good customer relations and to develop future referall business. I am not saying you are not in this category, because I think you probably are.

I also discovered while in sales, my products/goods, were not necessarily superior or inferior to the competition, just different, but hoping to have the same end results or better.

I never slammed my competition in public, I know you did not name the companies in your marketing, so be it, we all knew who they are, thats okay, this is free market competition, the way a free market should operate.

I instead would offer solutions to my cutomers, and my potential customers, in order to maintain and develop new business, which is necessary in order to stay in business and put food on the table, correct?

The main reason I got new business, or maintained new business, was because of trust/repect, the customer will always stay with you, if they "trust", and no they will have great customer service after the sale, a winning combination that does not fail.

So you know what, my customers weren't always right, infact a lot of times they were wrong, but it was my job to make them feel they were right, by offering solutions to there concerns/problems, and to make them feel they were right, and had a right to superior products aand after service.

So the customer you see, is "always right", when the businessman, allows him/her to believe this...................The Rock

[PatS....]

"Pat, using your own post, you accused scarebird of using "scare" tactics."

They were. When you say that something is "very wrong" when describing BRAKE products, that certainly will "scare" some people.

As I said, I don't have a problem with the Scarebird product, the more the merrier. Just stop the negative ads and push the virtues of your own product and don't put down the competition or you'll get the reaction that we have here.

"kaizen" is a great concept, which as I understand it involves improving on that which came before. It doesn't include dissing what came before.

[48mirage]

In your prior post you used quotation marks around the phrase; inferior design.

Who were you quoting?

[Plymouthy Adams]

I guess I could have put it in big red bold letters but then again it would still not sit well with you..so what the heck...just because two people reach the same conclusion after reading an ad does not make it wrong for me to use the other persons words...you left out the word very...why did you not want to include that in your quote...that is basically the whole arguement in a nutshell..

[48mirage]

Tim, FYI I still have the original drum brakes all the way around. Lighten up your getting a little thin skinned here. And I saw no assault against our Navy personnel past or present. In fact the scarebird rep identified himself as ex-Navy and used some of the axioms of his experience. Again their statement was they felt the design was wrong. Not measureable, in fact doesn't even have to be rationale when you are talking about emotions. Here is an example:

How do you feel about me right now?

Well, that may not be a good test, you're probably right.

[48mirage]

Didn't intentionally leave it out, I was trying to type it instead of a copy and paste. Please refer to my first post which has now been edited to include the word very. Actually any change in format would have been gramatically correct. The quotes either indicate a quotation of the party being described or a way of giving an infered meaning to something. Charting doesn't improve much, just shows trends.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I would not say I am thinned skinned here..and I don't think any less or any more of you..only thing is I think you are trying more to defend a company that in the eyes of many others has gone a bit over the line on this forum. And in that you are free to do so..as I am to rebutt..And to infer the product is not sailor proof is a direct assault, I cannot vouch for the character and work ethics of the person at scarebird..maybe his Navy experience was a bit less than he anticipated..I have not a clue there..but I will say this...having been in direct support of the US Navy as a civilian technician for just a bit over 16 years...I would never want to say these people are less in skills or abiltity..I view the Navy as our first line of defense and cannot see how we could as a nation survive without them. They do a job daily that most people I know today could never embrace..it is not a job everyone can live up to..I personally am glad there are those that serve..I did my time in the Army and the Air Force Reserves and have a letter of retirement..lot of people have never done that..I believe both side have pretty much been stated here and we bicker among ourself and while that in itself can be good..it can also have negative effect. I work with people daily that I will never ever assosiate with ouside of work, but while on the clock..we get the mission done, we joke, drink coffee and sometimes argue points in depth The next day..we start again and do what needs be done and lo and behold we have a totally different topic of discussion today..what happened yesterday..well, that was yesterday..tomorrow..we may be on a completely different subject here and many viewspoints and ideas will again be projected..are they all right..are they wrong..are they the thoughts of the individual....awe!

[48mirage]

The sailor proof comment is so old I'm not sure that there is any one on this forum who would be older. It is not an assault against Navy personnel, I believe it comes from the fact that the resources our men are given are used well beyond there intended design or limits.

[Plymouthy Adams]

maybe..just maybe I will conceed a bit of thin skin on that issue..I have a total of 54 years service in support of our national defenses..and I will say that terms like that are very far from the truth and "close enough for government work" is as far from the truth as it can get but daily those who are not in government service continue to believe that the jobs performed by these workers do not measure up..I agree that industries as a whole, government and private are expected and ARE doing more with less daily and the trend to continue cutting grows daily. I will defend our military as they defend me...

[scarebird]

About the Navy stuff - good weapons are designed by engineers to be used by music majors during wartime, the simpler to operate/maintain the better: ex. Kalashnikov. I am sure once Charlie's kit is installed it works fine - but who here has not tapped a hole crooked? We eliminated that potential stumbling block along with the cost of the tap - why not mention it? In 1949 Oldsmobile introduce the OHV 303, which made the then King Flattie obsolete. Do you think GM pointed out that the Flattie was old news? you could hang your hat on it.

Rockwood - you do have a point. A few years ago I bought into that line of thinking - but now I am more of a 80/20 guy; less stress is a good thing.

Bebop - good hearing from you, still dealing with FLAP (good people).

Frank, Don, Pat - wish I had the time to worry about trivial stuff...

[PatS....]

The nice thing about being in business for yourself is the fact that you make all the decisions and then the buck stops on your desk for the success or failure of those decisions.

It's your business and how you promote it and the public face you put on it is your responsibility and I respect that. Not how I would do it, but then I DO sweat the trivial sometimes.

I wish you good luck in business.

And, welcome to the best forum on the net, sincerely.

Pat

[scarebird]

And, welcome to the best forum on the net, sincerely.

Pat

Thank you - I have had many good dealings with Canadians.

[billwillard]

Scarebird, You did say (trivial stuff) didn't you. That describes this whole thread in a nut shell. We have even brought the army and navy in. Is this trival stuff what our next war is going to be about? I had Charlies kit and got rid of it because I had a problem dealing with him and would never deal with him again but that is between he and I. I see nothing wrong with someone pointing out that there product is different than someone elses and that is all Scarbird did in his ad. You can put your own words in and make an ad say anything you want it to which is what many of you have done. You CAN NEVER please every one. Think our time could be better spent. I don't know or have never meet scarebird but think he has been picked on for NO reason.

Bill

[dezeldoc]

You CAN NEVER please every one. Think our time could be better spent. I don't know or have never meet scarebird but think he has been picked on for NO reason.

Bill

For no reason?? was it your money that was spent with them and things did not work as advertised?? No it was mine and rolllies, I took the time to call and let them know their was a problem with a part and was told I was full of it and did not know what I was talking about. It was my time spent running around trying to figure out why it was not working and found the problem and soultion. Just like you did not agree with charlie that was your right and had you said something in a post I am sure it would have got the same results. Now he has admitted their is another caliper and is aware of it and a few other small things so maybe they will resolve them so someone else won't have the same problem as me. If people don't speak up how are they to know their is a problem with something. I could keep going but I think you get the point.

[littleman]

Long about now I think is when Willie steps in to sing

Turn out the lights the party's over

[PatS....]

Scarebird, You did say (trivial stuff) didn't you. That describes this whole thread in a nut shell. We have even brought the army and navy in. Is this trivial stuff what our next war is going to be about? I had Charlie's kit and got rid of it because I had a problem dealing with him and would never deal with him again but that is between he and I. I see nothing wrong with someone pointing out that there product is different than someone else's and that is all Scarbird did in his ad. You can put your own words in and make an ad say anything you want it to which is what many of you have done. You CAN NEVER please every one. Think our time could be better spent. I don't know or have never meet scarebird but think he has been picked on for NO reason.

Bill

Brakes are NEVER trivial.

When you dis the competition, prepare to be dissed yourself...it's turnaround, not being picked on.

You say Scarebird simply pointed out differences in his ad when that simply isn't true, and he admitted as much and implied that pointing out flaws was a preferred way of advertising.

"Think our time could be better spent"

I, for one, have learned alot in this thread. I have learned that if I ever buy another Mopar, I will buy another Rustyhope kit.

I have not learned anything here that would sway me to switch.

You can't please everyone, but Charlie's kit AND the customer service pleased me.

[Norm's Coupe]

And with that we should be saying things like.

Joy To The World.

Be Merry and Bright.[/b]

AND,

"PEACE ON EARTH AND GOOD WILL TO ALL!!"

AND

"A HAPPY, SAFE AND PEACEFUL NEW YEAR TO ALL!!"

[scarebird]

Brakes are NEVER

I, for one, have learned alot in this thread. I have learned that if I ever buy another Mopar, I will buy another Rustyhope kit.

I have not learned anything here that would sway me to switch.

You can't please everyone, but Charlie's kit AND the customer service pleased me.

Excellent - perhaps you can enlighten me as to which inner bearing Charley uses? As far as I can tell, Rustyhope uses the 77-89 Dippy rotor - which requires an A17 inner bearing. This bearing has a 1.3775" inner bore, so to fit this on the 1.250 spindle stub would require a bushing no? In the picture of his kit I do not see one - was one supplied?