Changing front engine mount - how do you get at it?????

[n1gzd_plymouth]

thanks for all of the good advice.

my rear shock links are missing (but the shocks are still there).

I am going to remove the shocks and convert to tube type shocks. I am going to do this by duplicating the installation on a 37 plymouth. It looks like it will be pretty straight forward.

there is no red hotrod in the pic (you might be just seeing my red fender pad).

However, these are my other vehicles that might be in the views:

(1936 Plymouth coupe)

1950 Buick Super Riviera

1958 Desoto Firesweep

1962 MGA MKII

Rebecca

[Young Ed]

Hey I used to chat with you on the forward look site when I had a 55 dodge. Sounds like you are well on the way to changing the front mount. Are you changing the rear ones also?

[greg g]

Just to confirm I'm not halucinating, is that not a red hot rod in the hext garage stall??

[Don Coatney]

As Captian Kirk said must be the LDS Greg;

I saw it too.

[Plymouthy Adams]

I always thought that big H was for honda..could be Hotrod though (see first picture)

Kids having fun..

[n1gzd_plymouth]

ah, yes that is a hot rod but that is not mine. That picture was taken at the sellers house in VA. I live in MA. Most of the pictures on my site are at my place but some early ones are still there because initially they were the only pictures that I had. I live in MA.

Rebecca

[greg g]

That splains it How far are your from the NY Boarder??? Good show at Rhinebeck, Dutches County NY in MAY. And coming up this weekend you might be interested in the Gathering of the Faithful speed meeting in Rochester ma. Just west of the Cape.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I will be at the gathering of the faithful.

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I removed the radiator, fan stuff, coolant stuff, loostened the engine support bracket and removed the engine mount today and this is what I found out.

My engine mount is the old type that looks like this:

(it is upside down in this picture).

As you can see it is different than the one in the later cars. The bottom studs are closer together than the bolts on the top side.

This engine mount does not fit the 52 motor because the holes are too far apart. However, the bottom studs do fit the lower engine mount. I think that the lower studs are closer together than the holes on the engine bracket which makes me think that the later engine mount will not fit.

Another thing that is different about the 36 engine is that the engine support brace is not U shaped as you described above. It is oval shaped. What I mean is that a part of it goes around the bottom of the front of the engine area (it encircles it such that it cannot be removed unless the harmonic balancer is removed - at least). The book says that you have to also remove the fenders if you need to remove the timing chain cover. It has one bolt on each side and the hole in the chassis is elongated to permit adjustment.

Here is a view looking straight down on it. You can see the part that goes under the harmonic balancer:

Much easier to get at this job with the radiator out:

Does anyone know if the engine support brace from a later car will somewhat easily bolt into my car? That might make maintenace easier.

To solve my problem I think that I need to:

1) Prove that the later engine mount won't just fit.

2) consider grinding the holes on the engine bracket such that they get wider (make a slot) such that I can use the stock 36 engine mount. I think that if the bolts are tight enough and I use lock washers or something with teeth it won't slip. I think that most of the force is up and down anyway (kind of rocks). I think that I could get away with this. What do you think?

3) make a custom engine mount that fits both sides. Just a metal sandwich with some rubber in the middle. Might not be that hard to make.

Here are some numbers (measurements are just with ruler center to center):

old orignal engine mount (seen in picture above):

distance between studs = 3 13/16 (almost 3 3/4)

distance between bolt holes = 5 1/4

36 engine support bracket = matches old engine mount studs

52 engine bracket bolt holes = 4 3/8 ( wider than studs I am pretty sure).

Does anyone know if the later model engine support bracket (the U shaped one) would fit my car (instead of the sort of oval shaped one that I have that is hard to remove)?

Another solution would be to just use the earlier model engine mount (like the one that does not fit) but elongate the holes in the engine bracket so that bolts would fit (make it a slot so that it could be made to fit). I am thinking that if it is tight enough it won't move.

Another solution would be to manufacture an engine mount that fits my current chassis/engine perfectly. It could be a similar design as my original one but it would fit.

Any ideas?

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

Ok. For some reason the pictures did not come out. Here they are as attachments:

[n1gzd_plymouth]

one more time.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

http://www.pangalacticconsortium.com/temp/TempGallery/

they won't upload so see them here.

Rebecca

[steveplym]

This is a picture of the front of my car. There are two brackets, the one that goes below the rubber mount and down to the frame. It appears you have the same bracket, but it is held to the front crossmember by a bolt on each side, rather than a "U" bolt on each side. Notice the one on my '47 has two nuts on both sides.

The other bracket does bolt behind the timing chain cover and is the same on most all flathead engines. So that shouldn't be a problem.

I'm not sure I understand what the difference is in the mounts. I'll study your pics again to see. Can you not use the '52 mount as the motor I took out of a '36 Plymouth had the same engine side front mount bracket. The lower frame side bracket may have been different. I still have that bracket and will have to look at it to see. It appears a bit different in your pictures as I noted the bolt differences.

[steveplym]

After looking at it again I see your problem. The holes not lining up on both brackets. I agree with you and would elongate the holes. You should be able to drill new ones if they are that far apart. I don't think you would see any problems.

I've probably got an extra engine bracket around somewhere that would work, but as you said it is kind of a pain to remove the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover. I'd probably just drill new holes like you said.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

so you see that my bracket attaches at the frame and also completely encircles the front of the engine (yours is u shaped mine is 0 shaped to generalize).

I am not sure I can adapt my car to take your type of bracket but I will investigate that first.

next I will consider using the old type of mount with elongated holes on the engine side.

third I will consider custom made engine mount.

Rebecca

[Young Ed]

Is this similar to what your 36 mount looks like? Until now I've never heard of a difference in the rubber mount piece. This is a car engine in my truck and nothing special was done to install it other then bolting the truck bellhousing and front mount to it.

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I think that looks like mine. You don't have a problem because your car engine matches the car mount. engine and mount are a matched set. My engine does not go with that mount.

Could I see a close up of your installed rubber engine mount?

It just occurred to me that my solution could be to drill different holes in the top part of the mount (instead of drilling holes in the engine side bracket).

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

also, I am curious can you tell me what year truck and engine? What where they originally?

My engine is from truck but my chassis engine mount is from car. I have seen later cars with a mount that looks like the above blue engine.

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

After looking at it again I see your problem. The holes not lining up on both brackets. I agree with you and would elongate the holes. You should be able to drill new ones if they are that far apart. I don't think you would see any problems.

I've probably got an extra engine bracket around somewhere that would work, but as you said it is kind of a pain to remove the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover. I'd probably just drill new holes like you said.

I am thinking that perhaps when I have a reason to remove the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover I will re-consider changing the engine support (my manual says that i have to remove the fenders to do it - I am not sure i understand why).

In the meanwhile, I am going to drill different holes in the top part of the rubber engine mount (bolts on top, studs on bottom). this way I don't have to modify the bracket on the engine.

Rebecca

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I've probably got an extra engine bracket around somewhere that would work, but as you said it is kind of a pain to remove the harmonic balancer and timing chain cover. I'd probably just drill new holes like you said.

Actually, now would be a good time for me to evaluate if the other bracket (like the picture of the silver and blue engines above) would fit my car. Are you willing to sell me your extra one so that I can have it as an option? I am curious to know if it would fit.

Rebecca

[Young Ed]

I think that looks like mine. You don't have a problem because your car engine matches the car mount. engine and mount are a matched set. My engine does not go with that mount.

Could I see a close up of your installed rubber engine mount?

It just occurred to me that my solution could be to drill different holes in the top part of the mount (instead of drilling holes in the engine side bracket).

Rebecca

I don't have a close up handy but I could try and take one. That picture is old and my truck is all together now so it might be tricky. That is a 52 plymouth car engine installed in a 46 dodge pickup. The metal front mount piece is the 46 truck unit. I wouldn't think you'd cause any issues drilling a new hole or 2 in the engine to frame bracket. Or in the mount thats on the engine either. The only really trouble would be is if the new hole isn't far enough away from an old hole.

[PatS....]

There is a third type of front motor mount as shown here on my Industrial engine. Not sure if it was used on cars or not, The mount rubber goes on the bottom, below the timing chain cover.

[PatS....]

Is this similar to what your 36 mount looks like? Until now I've never heard of a difference in the rubber mount piece. This is a car engine in my truck and nothing special was done to install it other then bolting the truck bellhousing and front mount to it.

Here are a couple of close ups of my truck engine mount. Hope it helps. I left them full size for clarity, sorry to dial-up users

[woodscavenger]

Mine is like the industrial mount. It has two holes below the front pulley. One looks just like yours with it being elongated and torn out. I need to plug and fix it. My front crossmember is about 5" thick so I need to run a bolt up through the bottom into the bottom motor mount. I was thinking of bolting straight to the crossmember or do I really need some rubber in between?

[n1gzd_plymouth]

I would think that you would want the rubber there so that that vibration would isolate it from the chassis.

I have decided that I will not try and modify the original 36 engine mount to fit the 52 engine because the 52 mount is available and the 36 is only available if you have it rebuilt.

This is what I have decided:

I will buy the later style rubber mount (studs straight through such that the spacing is the same on the top and bottom). This will fit my engine but not the cross member from 36.

Then I will either elongate the holes in the lower cross member (make the spacing wider) and hope that it won't shift (I don't think so since the studs in the upper side go through holes and they are the same studs.

The second option for using this readily available engine mount is instead of modifying the cross member that I have I could try and use the newer U shaped cross member. This would make maintenance easier (because it could be removed more easily (without removing the harmonic balancer and fenders). I favor this option but I could start with modifying my current one (nothing to loose) and switch it later when I need to remove the timing chain cover - UNLESS I FIND ONE VERY SOON TO TRY).

I will order the mount tomorrow.

Rebecca