keithb7

Still alive here are making progress. Too many darn honey-doo's. Seems like 4 out of every 5 evenings after work I need to be somewhere else other than in my garage. Some notes: The blue dye I used to cut in the valve seats, and lap the valves. It reads on the bottle, "to remove use denatured alcohol". It turns out thats not an easy find up here in Canada. Somewhere I read someone said to ask for it at the pharmacist, they'd have it behind the counter. Well no they don't, but the pharmacist was able to help me. Denatured alcohol means it undrinkable apparently. No such product there at the pharmacy. I mentioned that I needed something high in ethanol content. He took me out to the aisle to show me compound rubbing alcohol which was 95% ethanol. It worked like a charm. Isopropyl rubbing alcohol or nail polish remover does not work, I tried that. To clean up the ports after the grinding and lapping, I used solvent and a tooth brush. I bought a hand sprayer jug at the pesticide department at the hardware store. You can pump it up and pressurize the contents, whatever you decide to put in there. I put a litre of solvent in there and pumped it up good. It sprayed out and worked really well. I pulled all the valves first, and laid sheets of tinfoil over the tappets. Sprayed lots of solvent down from the top, and scrubbed. Wiped everything up, nice and clean. Rinsed it several times. It all drained down on a couple of absorbent pads on the floor under the area. Clean up was a snap when I rolled up the pads and tied up in a garbage bag to dispose. At this point I am inserting springs, spring end covers and retainers. Again, quite a little battle to get everything back in. You pretty well need the patience of a saint to do this job. Once I get all the valves & springs reassembled, I am going to attempt to try and test the valve seal-ability. With the engine in the car, rolling over the block to put kerosene in the ports to test for leakage is out. Pulling a vacuum through the valve ports seems impossible with open unsealed valve guides. Not sure what I am going to do. One idea a friend had is to build a small dam around the valves area on top of the block. Maybe use playdough or something. Pinch a small wall of playdough all the way around 2 valves at one piston. Tall enough to pour some kerosene on top of the valves and create a small pool so it will sit there. Then inspect for leakage in through the valve ports in the side of the block. Kind of silly, but will it work? Maybe. I am open to other suggestions. I'd rather not install the head and test for compression or fill chamber with compressed air. Then pull it all apart again if a valve is not sealing. Thanks in advance. Keith

Lucky you @TodFitch. That's a rare story these days it seems. Computers are everywhere in our lives. Controlling almost everything it seems. I would not blame a modern day technician for this. Manufacturers are forced to comply with tight emissions, consumer pressure, price pressure, competition, and more. Computers help here. They are sophisticated and programmed to function by engineers a lot smarter than the average car owner. A modern day tech is a result of his surroundings. 99.9% of what a tech works on is computerized. So are many of the tools he/she uses to troubleshoot the complaint. We're here as a unique group of car owners hanging on to almost a century old technology. Like flat head engines. We love old cars. We love working on them. They bring us joy. It sure is nice to find a mechanic who also loves these old cars. Even better when you find said mechanic and they actually listen you what you say. As mentioned in post 1. Many younger technicians today don't know a world without internet and cell phones. The world has changed very quickly as more and more people become electronically connected. As we are here in this forum. It seems that sadly, the art of face to face communication is dying. Attention spans are short. Sometimes it feels like nobody listens anymore, compared to the 80's, 70's, 60's and so on. This is progress? I had an interesting experience recently. I went to the local Canadian Legion on a Sat night. A 2 piece band was playing old dance standards. The audience were all seniors. They got up promptly when the music started and glided all over the dance floor. Smiling with friends. At music breaks they sat together with all their dance floor partners and laughed over drinks. Not one cell phone ever came out. No selfies. No Facebook posts. Just music, friends and a beer or two. I quickly surmised that that generation and their culture is almost lost for good. It's sad what's going on today. Good luck finding a good tech who will listen. It seems they are far and few between.

I'm only about 6 weeks into my first vintage car. A '53 Chrysler. 'My aleady up to my neck in a considerable home job. New valves and hand cutting seats. I find myself already scouting the net for a 40's 2 door coupe. Not to replace my '53 but supplement it. The lines of the Dodge/Plymouth of the era are spectacular. I could see this being a passion for a very long time. Too bad I had to wait so long to discover them. So if I could have one more today? A 40's coupe. I don't know enough yet to pick a model. As the years pass and I continue to be engrossed in the cars, I'm sure to find exactly what my next model will be.

Thanks for sharing. I was intrigued to learn more about the Dodge Brothers. I read and learned lots about their past. Interesting were their dealings with Henry Ford. I had no idea the Dodge Brothers coined the phrase "Durability", as it was soon after added to the dictionary.

I'm in Canada. Interested in hearing any replies. Most of my parts come up from the USA. Andy Burnbaum or Rock Auto. Cheap it ain't. My recent last package cost $60 USD shipping fees. Additionally, $72 CAD due in taxes and customs handling fees upon pickup at my local post office.

Thanks folks. I think I'm there with the seating sufaces. There's just 1 stubborn stellite seat that so far does not want to form a good seal. About 3/8 of the face diameter of one valve is letting a sliver of light through, when I do the bright flashlight test. I've spent a fair bit of time cutting this seat. The small light gap is getting tighter. I had to give up, as I'm headed out of town on business for 3 days. I keep cutting through the dye but it seems I've got another thou' or two to go to seal it up tight. This is the last seat as all the others look good to me. I'll get to it later this week and hopefully start reassembly shortly after. Next hurdle will be coming up with a way to get all the tiny cutting debris out of the manifold passages in the head. Thinking I'll lay rags over the tappets and spray solvent down the guides. Maybe put valve covers back on and let solvent flow out of manifold area, down side of block into a drain pan. When it looks good maybe blow it all out with compressed air. Any other better ideas to do it right? Thx.

Great to see another new member with a great car. I look forward to learning more your knock, and seeing more photos.

The points mentioned above are part of the reason I do almost anything I can to my car at home. I need forums like this to help guide me along. I can round up the tools, the time, shop space, and muscles. With the community technical help here, I'll try almost any repair my call will need. The same could be said about any paid help it seems. Drywall, painting, tile flooring, deck builders...There is no shortage of shoddy workmanship these days. I'm grateful today that I'm able to climb over, under and around the car to do the work. I have no idea what I am going to do when I can't someday. Hopefully my son is super interested in keeping up the old car at that time.

I think I'm making some progress here on the valves and seats. The blue layout dye is an excellent visual aid and really, a must for this job. Well at least the way I am doing it. Climbing over the rad and bearing down on the rear most valve seats to hand cut, is a good lesson in patience and balance. LOL. A bright light and a 4X power magnifying glass were good tools too. The cutter tool above does work, but has it's limitations. It takes time and lots of sweat. Oh and a few beer for sure. The seats are all cut and lapping is coming along. Here below you can see the lapped contact area of one of my new intake valves. All valves are now looking about the same. I have an even contact area around the entire valve and seat. Ideally I suppose, a nice wide contact area across the full valve face area is best. I'm not sure I can get there with the hand tool and elbow grease that I am using. I assume that a valve grind done with proper machine tools will yield full seat contact. Which offers better sealing and good cooling of the valves. My experience here now tells me pulling the block for a full machining job and new valve inserts is definitely the preferred way to go. As mentioned I'm just attempting to squeeze some more life out of my engine. Is this lapped area wide enough to do the job required? Comments from the experienced folks here is appreciated. Thanks. Keith

Last week I ordered a new head gasket for my '53 L265 from Bernbaum. Pleasantly surprised to find a brand new old stock from the 50's. Still in the original packing.

Thank you @thebeebe5 for the info on valve guides. I spent some time last night cutting seats. The intake seats are soft, cut into the block, and cut pretty easily. The smaller exhaust valve seats, I believe are stellite inserts. They are quite hard and require a lot more effort to cut. The instructions on the seat cutter box stated a speed wrench could be used. It works pretty well, except it won't fit at the rear two valves. I'll figure something out for there. So far I am seeing improvement in the sealing area when I drop in a new valve. I have been using a bright LED flashlight for a quick visual with the old valve in place, then again after I cut the seat and place a new valve in. I have been shining the flashlight in through the manifold ports in the block. As I grind I can see the surfaces sealing up by checking for light. Patience and diligence seem to be key here. I am getting quite acquainted with my fender, my upper body and back is getting a good work out.

Thanks folks. The valve guides do show some wear. The pilot for the tool fits tight in most guides. I suspect one or two are close to out of spec. I have not rebuilt one of these engines before. This is my first time going in. I suspect to change the guides you need to pull the cam and roll the engine over?Use a punch and from the basement, push them out toward head deck. Am I right? The engine ran pretty good until the bent valve incident. It did not burn oil. The car is new to me and I'd really like to get some use out of it this season. So I am attempting to perform a patch job. This repair was unplanned so I am trying to deal with it without having to pull, and completely rebuild the engine. Sure, it is due, by the looks of things. However, I'd like to squeeze the summer out of the car, by patching it up. I went in far enough that I figure I might as well put in all new valves, springs, and cut new seats. A new head gasket, new head bolts, new intake & exh gaskets, and run 'er. If she fires up and runs good again, I plan some short trips in town to local car shows for the summer. That's it. Then come fall, I'll tear the engine out for a full rebuild over the winter. That's the plan. Maybe it's full of holes. We'll see once I button it back up and hit the starter. I picked up some kerosene, off to cut some valve seats now. - Keith

My tooling has finally arrived! The right tool makes the job so much easier. I pulled the remaining valves all out this evening using the valve spring compressor tool. Can you spot the bad valve? Several of the valves above I cleaned out of boredom, waiting for parts and tooling to arrive. Several of the exhaust valves looked like this: Here is the vintage valve seat cutting tool. The pilot goes down in the valve guide. It's a 45 degree cut. First time for me doing this job, so any tips on grinding the seats are appreciated. Use a drill? Forward and reverse? The tool came with several course and fine pieces of replacement emery cloth.

I chose regular more expensive coverage on my '53. So my son could drive it. We have "Collector Coverage" available. Much cheaper than regular rates but my 18 year old son was not allowed to drive it to school in his senior year. I want everyone in my family to drive it if they want. So we're insured accordingly.

Sorry to hear of your car troubles. I hope we can help you solve them. It is frustrating at times trying to solve car trouble. I find internet forms good mostly, but sometimes you can be led all over the place by various suggestions. Sometimes people don't read all the posts and get off track. Your comment about the timing light exercise is interesting. The timing appeared to be jumping all over the place at idle. That might be a clue. Is this not the sign of a worn distrutor? Plates, shaft, bushings? Is vacuum advance working as it should? Weird how things appear fine cold though. Loses power, backfires, won't rev up when hot. Hmm. Sure sounds like ignition. Have you done a compression test just to give us a baseline on engine health?

I call 'em connecting rod, big end bearings. Of course at opposite end of the small end bearing. Aka piston pin bearing.

Go here and scroll down to find the Chrysler book of industrial engines. #8 on page 2. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxzO_Oy1EMLIQ20wSGRkNUNDZ1E/view

Painful news to hear of this broken head bolt. I recently pulled my head off. The age of the bolts is unknown. I was undecided for a few days whether to re-use them or not. I just went ahead ordered a full new set.

Good to see the youth around these old cars. My 18 year old son is ecstatic about my recent '53 Windsor purchase. I let him take his girl out for rides. They love the big front bench so she can sit close. He has taken it to school this spring. He's in his senior year of high school. At lunch time they pack the car full and head to McDonalds for shakes. Good times for sure. It was all great till I had to address the valve issues last week. Car is down and he's missing it a lot.

Thought I would post an update for those following along. I have been working on puling the valves without the spring compressor tool. It's in the mail, but I want to continue to move ahead in the mean time. It's struggle with what I have been using. However I am making progress. I cannot get the bent valve out without the spring compressor it seems. Hopefully it will allow me to do that. Otherwise what are my options? Cut the valve spring with a small cutter disc to release tension? I went ahead and ordered all new valves, full set of spring and retainers. All new head bolts. New water distribution tube as well. Not much left to do other than pull the rest of the valves, then wait for parts and tools to arrive.

@Don Coatney, in another valve thread you posted an old tool for cutting intake valve seats. I need to do some work on my valve seats. Did you find the tool effective? Thinking I'll buy the one on Ebay shown below. I need 1.5" for exhaust and 1.75" for intake. I was thinking if I use new valves that are cut at 45 deg, and use this 45 deg cutting tool on the seats, then lap, it may be ok. The rear 3 exhaust valve surfaces on my '53 are pretty rough. Probably due to heat. Maybe partially plugged water distribution tube, as someone else mentioned. A full proper valve job means pulling the entire engine. I am hoping to avoid that until winter. This one I found does 45 deg and 30 degree at 2" and under. Thx. Keith

I am also interested in hearing more on this topic. I am in the middle of a valve job with engine still in car. I will attempt to improve valve seal sufaces by lapping. You can see my thread on this page I would like to know if there is a tool that can cut block valve surfaces, with engine in place. I am doubting there is room at cylinders 5 & 6. My compression readings are similar. No oil burning. Upon pulling the head I can see that some valves were not sealimg well. I begin lapping tonight. More to come from me as I progress through the job.