splat1955 Posted December 19, 2007 Report Share Posted December 19, 2007 Hey Guys, It's been probably almost a month since I posted....or close to it. No, I haven't lost interest in the forum or my car.....that won't happen. As a matter of fact, I've been driving it a little more regularly lately....as we come to the end of decent weather here in the Sierra mts. But to touch on my last post...I did get my new piece of moulding on the drivers side fender and man, it sure makes the car look more complete....all I need now are the rocker stainless. Now, about the " Out of Pocket" heading to my post. You may or may not remember that we were/are having furnace problems. Yup, just what you want to hear around Christmas is that your furnace is pretty much toast. So, to make things more comfortable while we sorted out what we were going to do about the furnace, we purchased a couple little heaters and made more use of the fireplace......and started getting bids on a replacement furnace. Well, today is the 2nd day of the new furnace being installed......including all new ducts, boxes, some new registers and even adding a new outlet in the living room and an outlet in our mudroom for when the dogs have to put out there when we have company. Also a complete new air condensor outside and new coil for the condensor up in the attic with the new furnace. They have already gutted everything, have the new furnace and coil up in the attic and have removed or plugged any of the old plumbing and have already installed the new vent for the furnace. I won't go into all the bid quotes we got.....but we decided to go with a company that has been around for many years but not the " biggest " company in town. They were able to offer the " Rheem " unit and because we went with a little smaller company, we were able to bump up from the " middle of the road " model furnace to the second to the top of the model line. Also this company included new and higher " R " value ducting than we had to begin with...plus all of our hardware, furnace, air unit and ducting were all 20 years old except for the ducting we had in our new room that we built 3 years ago. This company also included the new ducting in the bid....but it hadn't even been mentioned as included when they owner came out to take all measurements and such for the bid....so needless to say, we were pleasantly surprised to see the bid come back to us with the ducting & ducting hardware included. 3 other companies wanted between $1500 & $3000 extra for duct replacing...plus they were only going to install the furnace and air units...no extras like new registers and adding the register and ducting to our mudroom and adding a register to our living room. Oh, and originally our old furnace was all the way to the rear of our home......the new furnace and coil have been placed on a platform in the center of the house so most duct runs are a more reasonable distance allowing for a more even temp throughout the home. So, yeah, Christmas time isn't the best time of year to have to deal with this costly repair....but we shuffled some monies around and worked some financing so actually, our bills are going to be a bit less each month...and would should start seeing a slight drop in our propane usage soon. Oh, and of course, they included the coolest new Honeywell " touch screen " thermostat....woohooo! So guys, possibly by the end of today or latest, mid day tomorrow, we will have central heat again.....and lookin' forward to it. Just thought I'd update and let ya know I hadn't been around cause I froze to death in my sleep...but because of all the bids, contractors and running around I've been having to do to get the info I'd need to make an " educated " decision on who to go with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobT-47P15 Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Sounds as if that company gave you good treatment and prices. Always nice to deal with someone like that. Our furnace (under house in the crawl space) and air unit (outside) are about 25 years old now, so we will have to replace them one of these years before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 My furnace is from 54 and I don't have AC. I've been trying to setup an appt with a friend of a friend to see how much thats gonna run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric wissing Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I was out shoveling two sundays ago and I came into warm up. After about an hour I realized that I wasn't getting any warmer. The furnace wasn't working. I called the people who installed it and they came out within a few hours and got it going. A module? or something went out, $400.00. That include $90.00 to show up on a Sunday. The furnace is 18 years old. What are you going to do? I am glad I have heat. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Yeah Bob.....so far...so good. Although they use installers much younger than I'd like to see doing my install, there's probably not many guys much older, and definitely not my age, that want to haul furnaces in and out of an attic. And, the owner of the company was pretty young himself. I had also gotten a bid from the " big guy " company around here....owners probably 70.....lead tech about 45 and they have a huge building with lots of employees. But, the lead tech that came out first to see what was needed and then again to sit with us and go through thier bid, well, he just didn't make my wife or myself totally comfortable ....having mis-guessed the size/tonage/BTU's of our original furnace was one of the items that didn't really set right with us was one of the reasons we didn't go with them. The other reason was that they were pretty much about 2 grand higher right from the start...and going to be about another 2 grand if we wanted to entertain the idea of new duct work. In total to go with that company and do the complete system....it would have totalled a little over $13 grand.....although that would have included the very top of the line Lennox furnace....a unit they had supposedly purchased for another customer who couldn't get financing for enough money. The guys we went with gave us a quote of $8500 which included everything, including the new ducts and hardware....and my wife and I had already talked and decided to go as high as $11 grand on a system if we had too. So, with the $8500 bid, we really could afford to go another $900 for a better furnace that was going to save us that amount in propane and electrical usage in probably 8 years. Anyway, going with the company that we did, and the pricing being what it is, we were able to upgrade to a better furnace than what they had quoted in the bid. And I've already mentioned how many extras they threw in....not even counting all new ducting. Last night I decided to do a walk through the house and look at all the registers and thier condition....found 3 that looked to be as old and the original heating system. I mentioned replacing those this morning to the guy in charge of the installation and he's having someone bring 3 more out to the house this morning, and just going to give them to us and install them for nothing....You can't beat service like that. So, anyway, when you get ready to go with a new system, it doesn't hurt to shop it...and I did about a week of internet education on the 4 furnace manufacturers and models that I was interested in. All time well spent...believe me. Sounds as if that company gave you good treatment and prices. Alwaysnice to deal with someone like that. Our furnace (under house in the crawl space) and air unit (outside) are about 25 years old now, so we will have to replace them one of these years before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grey beard Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Your post was an interesting read to me. As we speak (I write - whatever), we are still using the original 30+ year old oil burner in our PA home. I know it is on borrowed time, and has already outlived its normal life expectancy, so I've been shopping for a new system. Ours is also warm air, but the duct work appears to be quite adequate -even the reurns all still work. Where we iast lived in Ohio, we had a new home wih geothermal head/cooling. No combustion inside the house - no chimney - not even a vent. No odors, etc. AND, our total energy bills never averaged more than $85-90 per month - fantastic, in my mind. Sooooo, I've gotten several estimates to replace the oid oil burner and three for a new geothermal system. Geo will cost nearly $8K more than replacing the oil burner alone. We use 600 gallons of oil each year, so it doesn't take rocket science to see that the payoff will be in about 8 or 10 years. Only trouble is, I'm too old to live long enough to enjoy the result. Oh well . . . Mebby geothermal heat will make the house worth more when my wife sells it, after my funeral. Go figure . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I know what you mean Eric.....we are going to be sooooo glad when they wrap up in here with the work. I would have had the old furnace repaired, but, a repair guy we had come in said that the parts for our old Lennox were going to be about $1000....plus installation. And the company that deals with Lennox here said that the repair guy was probably pretty close and that even though they were an Authorized Dealer, they don't sell the parts and would have to go through a wholesaler to get them....I couldn't see investing that much into our old system.....maybe if had only been a few hundred bucks to get us through till spring....but not $1000+. Anyway, the guys we have doing the new install say they are going to try and finish up today...but may have a couple hours of work tomorrow. Right now it's 58 degrees in our living room and about 40 outside.....and the outside temp must be dropping cause we just had about 30 minutes of hail. I've got one of those " space " heaters in the living room blasting away.....but doing about nothing. I thought by " space " heater they meant that it would warm up the space you put it in....depending on the size of that space. Now though, I think by " space " they meant that it could be used up in space in a space capsule....cause it's sure not workin' here on earth! Anyway, I've got high hopes that either today or tomorrow morning all will be toasty in the house again.........and hopefully an even temp thoughout the house with the new technology. We'll see. I was out shoveling two sundays ago and I came into warm up. After about an hour I realized that I wasn't getting any warmer. The furnace wasn't working. I called the people who installed it and they came out within a few hours and got it going. A module? or something went out, $400.00. That include $90.00 to show up on a Sunday. The furnace is 18 years old. What are you going to do? I am glad I have heat. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I have a 100 year old Gerogia farmhouse..it is huge..it has high ceiling..it has no insualtion..lol I have central heat..but have nver even fired it up..old old unit by Amana..however the AC still works and I do cool the whole house but will never try to heat the whole house regardless of what system. I know and will eventually upgrade my unit to a more efficient model..get a bit of insulation in the overhead etc but the walls would be a nightmare..siding over lap board and inside upgraded to sheetrock over the tongue and groove 3/4" walls..so your estimates are very scary..I will more than not do my own work and get the unit at wholesale..and the reason..still don't like paying for cheap fast work at preminum prices..Ihave installed a few systems in the past from zero exixting ducting install and full upgrades ripping out split units to the GasPack/Heatpump units..these I prefer and is what is in the old house now. The system should quickly pay for itself and with the heat pump would make the heating of the house should when we have guest easier. We are rarely in more than the kitchen and den as it is..and I hate heated air while sleeping..so I also feel your pain..will be in pain soon enough myself..my attached shop that is equal to size of the house is a different animal..it is very well insualted and paneled. Does anyone on this forum have a Hardy system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 You make some good points here grey beard.....I'd thought about the geothermal systems as well. But, we'd put a cap on what we thought the return would be when selling the house, although we have no plans on that until the market changes. Also, the initial cost, as you stated, was going to be much higher. Both reasons why we opted for sticking with the same type of system we have existing. Another point you touched on I totally agree on was based on our mortality......how long will we be around to enjoy or make use of a new system. My wife and I are relatively young I guess....52 & 50....So, God willing, we will even possibly out live the new system.....but, I do feel better knowing that if something should happen to me, at least my family would be set with a decent system for some years to come. And one of the things that are said to be a positive return when selling a home, is the heat/air system....so having the best that you can put your money on is almost a guaranteed return. Maybe not so in today's low market values...but during average market times for sure. Here in Calif, probably like most everywhere, home values took a dive...but since they jumped so much in the previous 6 years, most home owners probably still owe less than they can get for the home so, any critical home system like heat and air will probably never loose them money. Gotta say though.....they sure have gone up in cost since we last installed a system which was to our other home in Santa Barbara 12 years ago that we sold before moving up here. Oh, and 2 or 3 of the HVAC companies that I've spoken to in the last couple weeks said that all equiptment went up about 30% last year....and have been warned of another possible increase in equiptment next year if the economy doesn't stablize. Heads up for those thinking about replacing thier systems... Your post was an interesting read to me. As we speak (I write - whatever), we are still using the original 30+ year old oil burner in our PA home. I know it is on borrowed time, and has already outlived its normal life expectancy, so I've been shopping for a new system. Ours is also warm air, but the duct work appears to be quite adequate -even the reurns all still work. Where we iast lived in Ohio, we had a new home wih geothermal head/cooling. No combustion inside the house - no chimney - not even a vent. No odors, etc. AND, our total energy bills never averaged more than $85-90 per month - fantastic, in my mind. Sooooo, I've gotten several estimates to replace the oid oil burner and three for a new geothermal system. Geo will cost nearly $8K more than replacing the oil burner alone. We use 600 gallons of oil each year, so it doesn't take rocket science to see that the payoff will be in about 8 or 10 years. Only trouble is, I'm too old to live long enough to enjoy the result. Oh well . . . Mebby geothermal heat will make the house worth more when my wife sells it, after my funeral. Go figure . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I'm with you Tim......I'm not a fan of warmed air at night either. Even with our previous system, when we went to bed, we'd turn the thermostat either all the way off, or set the temp down to 32 degrees...cause it never would get that cold inside over night. Even during the day, while my wife is at work, our daughter at school and me home working, I'd still set the Thermostat to maybe the highest of 68 degrees on the coldest days. I'd rather bundle up in a flannel long sleeve shirt that run through the propane....On the weekends though, when everyones home, I'll keep it a comfortable 71 or so. Probably won't change much with the new system although I may try it for a 3 month period and see how much propane we go through during this time of year as compared to last year. If I can run it more during the cool days and use of propane stays the same....I can live with that. But at night, I don't even want to burn any....that's why we got flannel sheets, electric mattress heating pads.....they do the trick just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 My thermostat has auto turn down settings. Goes to 62 while asleep and during working hours. You wouldn't get away with no heat here in MN. You'd freeze rather quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TodFitch Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Seems like the new equipment is all computerized for higher efficiency. I work in the computer business so I guess I should not complain too much. We just replaced our 1958 vintage boiler with a modern high efficiency unit this fall and I am a bit worried about all the electronics I see in it. So far, so good. It runs well and our gas bill for last month was 1/2 what is was for the same time period the last two years. I wonder though: Will this new unit last the 49 years the old one did? Or will some electronic module fail in 10 or 15 years and be unavailable or horribly expensive. . . By the way, our house was built with radiant heat (copper tubing embedded in the floors). A very nice way to heat a house that keeps your feet comfortable, there are no drafts and it is totally silent. Well the boiler makes a little noise when the pump is running but that is in the garage and you can't hear it in the house. Given all the thermal mass in the slab, it does take its time warming up if you had the heat turn off for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Yeah, that's one thing I should look for in our new thermostat after they set it up.......I've always wanted to visit MN....my wife has even been looking at homes there on the internet......I just don't know if we could handle your winters but that being said....I like the cooler weather way more than hot weather...but we only get about 1 month of really hot weather here since we got up here.... My thermostat has auto turn down settings. Goes to 62 while asleep and during working hours. You wouldn't get away with no heat here in MN. You'd freeze rather quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you've been in the computer business then you know you can bet on some electronic part going bad on your heating unit within 10 or 15 years.....but it will probably be fairly reasonable. I was told that about after the 20 year mark is when parts can become expensive...only because they might be harder to find....but I think with electronics as they are today, Boards, etc.....there won't be a problem getting a part for your unit down the road..and at a reasonable price. Our next home I think we may give radiant heat a try......the "above the slab " style where it is part of the sub-floor....I've been wanting to go that route for about 10 years.... Seems like the new equipment is all computerized for higher efficiency. I work in the computer business so I guess I should not complain too much. We just replaced our 1958 vintage boiler with a modern high efficiency unit this fall and I am a bit worried about all the electronics I see in it. So far, so good. It runs well and our gas bill for last month was 1/2 what is was for the same time period the last two years. I wonder though: Will this new unit last the 49 years the old one did? Or will some electronic module fail in 10 or 15 years and be unavailable or horribly expensive. . . By the way, our house was built with radiant heat (copper tubing embedded in the floors). A very nice way to heat a house that keeps your feet comfortable, there are no drafts and it is totally silent. Well the boiler makes a little noise when the pump is running but that is in the garage and you can't hear it in the house. Given all the thermal mass in the slab, it does take its time warming up if you had the heat turn off for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 Come check it out. Can't say I totally enjoy winter either but its ok. A nice heated garage with room to work would help my thoughts on winter a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 I'd have to agree with you there.....if I could keep my garage even in the high 50's during the winter months...I'd spend more time in the garage and have a better outlook about winter....but to be honest...since we only get a small amount of snow (last year maybe 3 feet ...all in one month and all gone a week or so later) I really like winter......maybe I should think about insulating and warming up the garage as well as the house while I've got the HVAC guys out here. Of course, my 'ol lady would go ballistic if I amend our contract with the company to include heating the garage.....It better get real warm in there, cause I have a feeling the garage would be my new bedroom if I did that! But, hopefully, this coming year I'll be able to build the shop that I've been wanting since we got up here....and even if I can't heat the whole shop, by God I'll make sure theres at least a small room in the shop that has a heater.... Come check it out. Can't say I totally enjoy winter either but its ok. A nice heated garage with room to work would help my thoughts on winter a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm's Coupe Posted December 20, 2007 Report Share Posted December 20, 2007 When it comes to, how long will the furnace last? The biggest problem I hear about the energy efficient furnaces is that the heat exchanger goes bad. That's a major part of the furnace. One reason they go bad is due to building up moisture in them during the warm months, if the exchanger is not made out of stainless steel. That's why I like my old furnace that was installed in 1958. The pilot light stays on all year round, even when the AC is running. The pilot light keeps the moisture from forming in the heat exchanger. Really don't care for the kitchen stove we bought in the 90's. Nice stove but even the top burners have electronic ignition. Gas will not turn on unless the igniter is working. So............now if the electricity should go out for some reason we can't even light the kitchen stove to cook. Even the oven has an igniter in it. Just a few months ago the wife was cooking dinner in the oven. Right in the middle of cooking it, the igniter when out, spoiling what she was cooking. IMHO all this electronic stuff is pure garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norrism1 Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Splat1955, You should be able to get a tax break for the new heating / ac system for this year. Might want to ask your tax preparer about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Yup, your right Norm about the heat exchanger being and item that can go bad and cost big $$ to fix.......we got a limited lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger for our new unit....then a 10 year warranty on everything else. Oh, also, we have the electric ignition on our stove tops and oven as well......and loose electricity about 3 times a year...never has been for more than 7 hours though.....but you can still light your stove burners and even your oven....all ya gotta have is a match.....and you can cook all day with no electricity.... When it comes to' date=' how long will the furnace last? The biggest problem I hear about the energy efficient furnaces is that the heat exchanger goes bad. That's a major part of the furnace. One reason they go bad is due to building up moisture in them during the warm months, if the exchanger is not made out of stainless steel. That's why I like my old furnace that was installed in 1958. The pilot light stays on all year round, even when the AC is running. The pilot light keeps the moisture from forming in the heat exchanger. Really don't care for the kitchen stove we bought in the 90's. Nice stove but even the top burners have electronic ignition. Gas will not turn on unless the igniter is working. So............now if the electricity should go out for some reason we can't even light the kitchen stove to cook. Even the oven has an igniter in it. Just a few months ago the wife was cooking dinner in the oven. Right in the middle of cooking it, the igniter when out, spoiling what she was cooking. IMHO all this electronic stuff is pure garbage.[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Ed Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 The oven might be a little tricky because I don't think it would be capable of cycling on and off to maintain the proper temp. You can certainly use the burners with no electricity though. And I'm pretty sure Norm smokes so he should have matches or a lighter handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Yeah norrism......It's a tax credit we can claim for this year by purchasing our A/C & Furnace.......I think it's rebate either from PG&E....but either way, it will either be good for $300 or $400 off our taxes for this year....every little bit helps. Splat1955, You should be able to get a tax break for the new heating / ac system for this year. Might want to ask your tax preparer about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthy Adams Posted December 21, 2007 Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 I know Norm secretly desires to move to a more modern house in a warmer climate zone and would and may still yet do so..he just don't want to leave his cave painting behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Wooohooooo.....heat!! Man, what a difference.....even our old furnace when we first moved here didn't warm up the place like this new one. Man, what a difference. Heat in every room...even the mudroom! We purchased what they called a " Premium " unit....because it has a 2 stage valve...and a bunch of other qualities I can think of right now.....but, the 2 stage valve is pretty cool cause on intital heating, say if the furnace had been off for a while and the house was totally cold...the unit will use the 100% part of the valve in combination with the motor to get the house up to the desired temp pretty quickly....then after reaching that temp it will switch to the 2nd stage of the valve and varies the motor to run between 60 & 70%....and keep it at the desired temp without having to blast back on at 100% each time. Anyway, we'll see how that option works. But man, this is the first time I could walk to any spot in the kitchen or living room and never find a cold spot. And our new master suite....I'm probably going to have to shut one register in there cause when it was built I had them put 2 in.....and now it gets to the set thermostat temp too quick......But it is Great!! They'll be out this morning...any minute I hope, and finish up a couple hours of work......Wooohoooo!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Good point about the oven being able to cycle for a set temp.....We only use the oven when the electricity is out for warming up the kitchen and living area.....but have used the top burners to cook on during those times. Hmmmm, that reminds me.....I quit smoking in the middle of Oct.....started using that Chantix....man, after just over 35 years of smoking and trying the different nicorette products...this Chantix is the only thing that has worked for me! I'm on my second of the 3 month prescription....and in the 2 months, I've had 2 cigarettes!.....I've never done that well before. Anyway...I'm pretty excited about that too....but not as much as having HEAT AGAIN....Woooohoooo! The oven might be a little tricky because I don't think it would be capable of cycling on and off to maintain the proper temp. You can certainly use the burners with no electricity though. And I'm pretty sure Norm smokes so he should have matches or a lighter handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splat1955 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2007 Okay, I'm always quiet when someone rags on Norm......usually it's about his driving to the end of the driveway and back...Anyway, I've always been quiet...but secretly just busting up inside cause you guys are too funny!!...and this " leaving his cave painting behind".....oh man...my side still hurts from laughing.........Just know Norm....I'm not laughin at ya....but hopefully laughin with ya cause the way you and some of these guys go back and forth just plain cracks me up! I know Norm secretly desires to move to a more modern house in a warmer climate zone and would and may still yet do so..he just don't want to leave his cave painting behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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